Controversial Statement: Wonderwoman needs more male readers.

[Agent Z]

I think you're misreading Robanker. The issue isn't that classic mythology is Wonder Woman's turf (it is, and in a post-Pérez world it pretty should be). It's that it has turned into her only turf, that her writers seldom leave.

I understood what they were saying but I still disagree as I think if you have her leave she's just doing what other superheroes are doing.

But I also think that the complaints about the many mythology stories isn't the underlying problem here. Real-world mythology can and did support a huge variety of different types of stories. But too many writers treat mythology as a box where you can pick up a single piece and use it on its own. Rather fewer attempt to see and treat it as a context for stories, and even fewer manage to engage with and modernise the mythology in an effective way.

This I can agree with.

(or princess cake, in the case of Hulk and She-hulk)..

Princess cake?

[Gotham citizen]

People of color.

Thank you.

Since she became the breakout hit of Marvel in 2014 and has been featured in games and cartoons.

How many copies does it sell every month?

[kjn]

Princess cake?

Princess cake.

[phantom1592]

Perhaps I'm just a jackass, but I adore that Wonder Woman punches a giant woman trampling a city on Monday, fights Circe on Tuesday, speaks at a college on Wednesday, hangs out with animals and kids in a park on Thursday before joining the JLA on Rann to fend off a Dominator attack on Friday and then shacking up with her love interest for a Saturday neither will soon forget. Probably catches up with Netflix on Sunday, I don't know. DC wants every day to be Tuesday and that's dreadful. If you want people to keep coming back, spice it up with variety. Until DC stops being ashamed that Diana has a robust character and universe, they're only ever going to get the small subsection of people who like the idea of superheroes filtered through mythology but don't want either done thoroughly; a half-hearted handshake between the genres because-- God forbid-- Diana be as cool as her fans know she is. It may dilute Bat sales

Honestly that's an issue with modern Comic writing. Everythign is just too stretched out. All stories are written for TPB now so you just don't GET any variety. You notice it a lot with Batman and Joker... you used to get one joker story a year if you were lucky... but now every one of those stories are 6-10 issues long and stretched over multiple books... then 6 months later, they do it again. it's like he ONLY fights that stupid clown now. I think some years you see Joker in more batman books than Robin... If Arcs were between 1-3 issues long you could spice up some stories with variety... but if you only get 12 issues a year you're only getting maybe 2 actual stories a year.... and you gotta keep their arch-enemies in the spotlight.... >.<

[Agent Z]

How many copies does it sell every month?

Can't find the exact numbers but it has sold half a million in trade paperbacks.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08...de-paperbacks/

[Gotham citizen]

The sales of Magnificent Ms. Marvel dropped from the 29,279 copies of the first issue to the 2,591 copies of the tenth issue; I don't think we can say it is a popular title.

[kjn]

The sales of Magnificent Ms. Marvel dropped from the 29,279 copies of the first issue to the 2,591 copies of the tenth issue; I don't think we can say it is a popular title.

Where have you been?

Ms Marvel is the one breakout character in superhero comics in the last decade, together with Miles Morales. Before that, it was Harley Quinn.

Your numbers are also off, since this was the second month of Ms Marvel #10. And Ms Marvel has never built her success on the sales of floppies. Her strength was in the trade sales, the digital sales, and in bringing in a new previously untapped demographic to the comic stores.

[Gotham citizen]

You are right: in December 2019 the tenth issue of Ms. Marvel sold 12,098 copies, with a loss of the 60% circa, so I haven't say anything wrong: the sales dropped dramatically.
You talk about trade and digital sales, then show me the data of the entire trade and digital market (I would love to see them, but I don't know where find them), because the only way to say if a character is popular, is to see its sales, see how the sales vary monthly and compare those sales with the sales of the other titles.
Moreover this "new previously untapped demographic to the comic store" doesn't seems to me very numerous, if the sales of the direct market dropped so heavily.

EDIT: I have found out this chart about the digital and direct market: https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html. The digital sales of 2018 were 100 millions of Dollars, while the overall sales were almost 1,100 billions of dollars.

[kjn]

You can look up Ms Marvel's TPB sales via Diamond on comichron as well. But otherwise, you're limited to Bookscan and similar paid services.

But I recommend you read up on Ms Marvel and Kamala Khan on wikipedia. She has a great article there, including popular and critical reception.

[Gotham citizen]

I have seen: the bestseller among the 2019 Ms. Marvel trade paperbacks is Ms. Marvel vol. 10 "Time and again", which sold 2,715 copies, almost like Magnificent Ms. Marvel #10 sold in January 2020!

[Aahz]

EDIT: I have found out this chart about the digital and direct market: https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html. The digital sales of 2018 were 100 millions of Dollars, while the overall sales were almost 1,100 billions of dollars.

With few exceptions (like the Injustice Comics that were published digitally first, and were usually on top of the comixology sales charts) digital sales don't contribute that much to sales, and Ms. Marvel is usually not that high in the comixology best seller list to really be an exception.

Trade sales are hard to trackdown, since their is no single big distributer. Sales numbers from trades via diamond are often very low, maybe a tenths of what they sell in floppies, and when it comes to amazon there is afaik no clear information how they calculate their rankings, and the positions of the books is constantly changing.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I think in general they need to stop messing with her and her cast. The next reboot is probably the only way to fix her origins, along with Donna and Cassie.

[Arctic Cyclist]

Isn't WW's readership already majority male though?

It is. Which is the real reason she struggles with popularity and sales.

Consider this: her movie is by far and away the most popular out of all the DC movies. Demographics showed that it was primarily women and girls attending the movie. There was brief spike in sales at the time of the movie.

Those women and girls encountered the Azzarello/Chang book.

Poor things.

There's a reason why BOP was taken away from Azzarello as soon as someone with a bit of sales and marketing comprehension read his Wonder Woman: it would have been the exact same mistake as Azzarello, like many DC writers, doesn't understand female characters or readers.

Consider the wild popularity of Damian Wayne* and Harley Quinn and who their primary fandoms are. Or, to call out the classics: Dr Who, Outlander, Game of Thrones, Star Trek.

Women.

The average male does not read or buy books, including comics, once they are out of school. Media that targets male readers, such as comics, reflects that in their struggle for sales, particularly in floppies. Of course there are break out comics that are unstoppable forces in popularity like Saga and the Walking Dead. Consider the demographics of those fandoms, which are similar to the two Batman and Robin runs, which were both consistently in the top ten Diamond Sales, and the former fandom of Batman prior to Rebirth. What do those top sellers have in common? Female buyers.

So the issue is how to recruit female readers, not male. A male sidekick isn't the way to do it; although a female one, similar to Gabrielle from Xena might do it.

The easiest way? Embrace Zeus as the villain. Lean hard into the actual mythology and explore how the Greek Pantheon by modern standards borders on being evil. (Except Hades and Hephaestus, those two were upright dudes. Hades even raised his niece/stepdaughter and adored her despite the child being the result of Zeus masquerading as him in order to rape Persephone in their home.)

Wonder Woman struggles due to not having memorable villains. By digging into the Greek myths and embracing how bad those gods were, which is what many fantastic bestselling novels and short story collections are doing right now, there's a potential to dramatically increase sales and draw in fans.

Or else lean into her being bisexual. Maybe get Steve Trevor pregnant and reintroduce Hunter Prince into the main universe without the rape that some how, some way, the editorial approved of for that brief and terrible Justice League story. Definitely, they need to read Circe and the newest translations of The Odyssey and Ovid's Metamorphosis.

*I will acknowledge that DC and the WB have done a fantastic job of alienating the original Damian Wayne fandom in favor of courting the young male fans via attempting to make the comic Damian and Talia the same as the DCAU ones. Rebirth sales have reflected this. For the first time since his introduction books that have Damian as a character are selling lower than books featuring Batgirl, Tim Drake, and Catwoman which demonstrates a severe mismanagement of the character.

[Ulysses]

Demographics showed that it was primarily women and girls attending the movie.

52%. So technically this is true.

[Guy_McNichts]

It is. Which is the real reason she struggles with popularity and sales.

Consider this: her movie is by far and away the most popular out of all the DC movies. Demographics showed that it was primarily women and girls attending the movie. There was brief spike in sales at the time of the movie.

Those women and girls encountered the Azzarello/Chang book.

Poor things.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

Her movie proved there is definitely an audience, but if you walked out of her film and picked up an issue of Wonder Woman that came out that summer, you know what you got? Zeus fighting Darkseid and her twin brother fighting Darkseid's minions, while Diana herself sits off to the side thinking about how great it is to have Zeus for a father.
And if you looked over to what she was doing in Justice League, you would find her accidentally shot in the throat and writhing on the ground with a stupid look on her face until Superman saved her.

The animated movies? I've already gone off at length in other threads about how, outside of her solo movie, Diana's only purpose in them is to get her ass kicked so other heroes can save her.

The fact is DC is not--nor has it ever really been, if we're being honest--exactly welcoming to new/potential Wonder Woman fans. Male or female.
Frankly, and I say this as a longtime fan, there are times where it more like an endurance test.

Better writing, consistency, better use of her rogues, etc....these are all good points. But I think the heart of it is DC needs to find creators who understand the character and don't regard her as an unwanted burden.