X of Swords (Summer X-Over)

[TooFlyToFail]

Keep telling that yourself, The ninja and Asian stuff is what made Psylocke click as character. Betsy is still walking around with all her history. The only thing Betsy is missing is a name and butterfly. Both of those things are ascetics for character recognition. It is not like a story all sudden becomes bad because she doesn't have a butterfly or someone doesn't call her Psylocke.

Psylocke(Betsy) was very visual character, a ton of her useful moments come from being a ninja character and being in position to do some cool because she was a ninja. Without being to fall back on being a cool badass Ninja Betsy is pretty boring visually. The visual ninja ascetic which is "Kwannon" makes the character. Which is why in just couple of page Sora (kwannon and Forge) stands out



Sora has same design philosophy as character Psylocke did, which means every time she shows up in a book,They are going put doing cool looking Ninja stuff. It looks a lot like Betsy is nothing without being an Asian super ninja.

Honestly, this is true.

Being a thick, Asian ninja Cammy with katanas is what made her cool. Aesthetics are important, and since Tini has decided to do nothing with her character, we pay attention to that....and her design and how she's drawn are both forgettable.

In trying to be politically correct, they ruined two characters Kwannon and Betsy. Oh, and they messed up giving Betsy to Tini.

Imagine if she was still a thick, Asian Cammy, with swords, and was a captain (instead of Magick), and she went on wet work missions for Magneto, Shaw, Sinister and Beast? Already more interesting than anything she's done so far.

[Gigantor]

The whole mutant magic thing in general still feels quite dumb to me, because nothing about being a mutant in general makes sense to allow a special kind of magic beyond what other super powered beings would be able to do allready.
While i can understand super powers allowing extra steps in how magic is performed or controlled, mutants are so randomly all over the place in their powers that a cohesive school of magic based on them sounds like an impossible task.

Instead it all comes across more like forcefully trying to make mutants more "special", when their entire deal is allready that they are special because of being born with a shared gene that gives random super powers.

All it also seems to have amounted to so far is the "reveal" that the X is apparently better for performing magic rituals than a circle because it requires "fewer parts". Which makes no sense to me, to be such a unique reveal, because it's just a switch in a basic geometric shape, that just so happens to involve the symbol of the primary mutant team in the marvel comics.
Are we really supposed to accept that over thousands of years of magic being practiced in the marvel universe nobody ever uncovered that the X is better than the circle?

Besides wouldn't a square be even better because it only involves 4 people? Or how about a triangle because it only requires 3? But that wouldn't involve the symbol of the X-men to be also a cool magic symbol wouldn't it?

The x is so dumb. The universe( that thing that has all our stuff I. It) loves circles and spheres. They are all over the place. I will accept x is better for magic when we discover an x shaped moon lol

[Killerbee911]

Even if that's the case, Betsy was an Asian ninja before Kwannon was even created by mistake, so the point still stands.

While you are trying to throw shade at Kwannon for being a mistake and lesser character. It is Kwannon aka Asian woman, hand ninja, aggressive action character is thing the things you are complaining being missing from Betsy.Betsy still has Purple hair, Combat and ninja skills, all of the her history, using a purple psychic sword and many of you guys aren't happy. And the funny thing if she had the Psylocke name and butterfly she still would be sucking right now. The little tiny thing that is Kwannon contribution to Betsy apparently is the most important or a very important thing to the success of the character.

Honestly, this is true.

In trying to be politically correct, they ruined two characters Kwannon and Betsy. Oh, and they messed up giving Betsy to Tini.
far.

Nope, Kwannon is fine, Nothing is ruined about her. She is running around being the bad ass ninja Psylocke that fans love in Hellions. The only people upset are Betsy fans who want Betsy to be that . Slowly Kwannon is separating herself from Betsy legacy getting her own unique take and integrating herself into X-men Lore. The character right now in Hellions is proving the decision was the right one.

[Gigantor]

It wasn't for you, sorry. It was to Gigantor.

Betsy doesn't look lke a harder chaarcter to work right now. I don't see how Tini can have so much hard time to execute it. And she says she is a big Betsy fan...

I stand by that statement and honestly after this I kinda think Beak IS more interesting than Betsy. At least when you look at beak you get why he is invested in mutant rights. If I woke up and was turned into a bird I would not like to be judged either. Betsy has magic and purple hair. Her struggle is so relatable lol

[Daedra]

Betsy problem right now is that all she got out of the "separation" from Kwannon is a bratty characterization and an ugly costume that is borderline cumbersome and kinda meaningless by today standards. The writer did not make any effort in selling the concept or delivering the change in a cool way, they just slapped a flag on her and called it a day.

[Psy-lock]

While you are trying to throw shade at Kwannon for being a mistake and lesser character. It is Kwannon aka Asian woman, hand ninja, aggressive action character is thing the things you are complaining being missing from Betsy.Betsy still has Purple hair, Combat and ninja skills, all of the her history, using a purple psychic sword and many of you guys aren't happy. And the funny thing if she had the Psylocke name and butterfly she still would be sucking right now. The little tiny thing that is Kwannon contribution to Betsy apparently is the most important or a very important thing to the success of the character

I'm not denying that. My point is that Kwannon exists solely thanks to Betsy. The name, costume, butterfly, psychic knife, action-junkie personality and ninja aesthetic were Betsy's before they were Kwannon's.

There is really nothing redeemable about dressing up in the British flag and being the symbol of a colonial country

While I'm not bothered by it personally, I do think it's funny that Marvel decided to do it to a character associated with cultural appropriation.

[Killerbee911]

I'm not denying that. My point is that Kwannon exists solely thanks to Betsy. The name, costume, butterfly, psychic knife, action-junkie personality and ninja aesthetic were Betsy's before they were Kwannon's.

Betsy longevity and success comes from being able wearing an Asian woman's skin. That asian's woman skin turns out to be to be called "Kwannon". Who is first an irrelevant point made try to diminish a character when the reality Betsy would be where Dazzler, Longshot,Forge, Rachel, Banshee, Sunfire, Marrow and lesser degree Polaris and Havok if not for getting to wear the Asian Woman skin. Most those things you are taking about that are "hers" are the product of her being made into Asian character.

It is weird to try diminish an Asian character for having things from another character by talking about who character who was placed in skin of Asian to get success. The irony trying being possessive things that "belong" to a white character but where made possible by Asian aesthetic. Apparently the Captain Britain monker is quite perfect for Betsy because taking something that does not really belong to you feels seem quite right for the Captain Britain.

[Psy-lock]

Betsy longevity and success comes from being able wearing an Asian woman's skin. That asian's woman skin turns out to be to be called "Kwannon". Who is first irrelevant point made try to diminish a character when the reality Betsy would be where Dazzler, Longshot,Forge, Rachel, Banshee, Sunfire, Marrow and lesser degree Polaris and Havok if not for the Asian Woman skin. Most those things you are taking about that are "hers" are the product of her being made into Asian character.

It is weird to try diminish an Asian character by talking about who character who was place in skin of Asian to get success. The irony trying being possessive things that "belong" to a white character but where made possible by Asian aesthetic. Apparently the Captain Britain monker is quite perfect for Betsy because taking something that does not really belong to you feels seem quite right for the Captain Britain.

Let's put it this way: if you remove everything that's associated with Kwannon from Betsy she'd still be a character, albeit a less interesting one. If you remove everything associated with Betsy from Kwannon then all that's left is a blank slate Asian ninja. Just being an Asian ninja clearly isn't enough, otherwise Yukio would've been a lot more popular than she is. It's a combination of different things (look, name, powers, personality) that made Psylocke work.

We can't possibly know where Betsy would've been if she wasn't made Asian. Post-Morrison Emma Frost is very successful and she shares a lot of her traits with the Outback Betsy.

And I don't see anything weird about "diminishing" a trash character who exists because Marvel wants to keep making money off of the sexy Asian ninja stereotype.

[Killerbee911]

And I don't see anything weird about "diminishing" a trash character who exists because Marvel wants to keep making money off of the sexy Asian ninja stereotype.

You mean same very concept that makes you say this?

Betsy is uninteresting now because she lost her entire identity to Kwannon

You have to make up your mind.lol

PS-The irony of Avatar also noted. Okay I am done.I lead the topic to far off track.

Anyways I can't wait to talk about this week X-swords, Still a little even but it recovered a little.

[Psy-lock]

You mean same very concept that makes you say this?



You have to make up your mind.lol

PS-The irony of Avatar also noted.

These aren't contradictory, because there's more to Betsy than just being Asian, lol. Like I said it's a combination of things that make her interesting. Betsy lost her personality and iconography to prop up Kwannon who is a walking stereotype that belongs in the 90's. My mother is of Japanese descent, I'm sick and tired of the fact that almost every Asian character in comics is the same freaking archetype.

[nandes]

Kwannon is a walking stereotype but Betsy was cooler when she in her body (aka also being a so called "walking stereotype")? I'm not sure I get the argument

All the X-Office did was take a character that was increasingly becoming unmarketable and uncomfortable for writers to handle and brought out of that situation two characters they could work and improve on. Obviously ppl have all the right to not like how Betsy has been written but with the body swap situation it's clear to me that they handled it in the best possible way

[sunofdarkchild]

On today's episode of Whose Line is it Anyway ...

[Psy-lock]

Kwannon is a walking stereotype but Betsy was cooler when she in her body (aka also being a so called "walking stereotype")? I'm not sure I get the argument

Betsy is less of a stereotype because she's a white woman who became Asian. It's a helluva lot more unique than just being a sexy Asian ninja like Kwannon. And yeah, it's kind of racist, but so is Kwannon.

All the X-Office did was take a character that was increasingly becoming unmarketable and uncomfortable for writers to handle and brought out of that situation two characters they could work and improve on. Obviously ppl have all the right to not like how Betsy has been written but with the body swap situation it's clear to me that they handled it in the best possible way

The best way would've been to give Kwannon a unique identity: her own powers, codename, costume and personality. Instead they gave us a 90's stereotype.

[nandes]

That's fair, I respectfully disagree since I think BEH and now Wells have done the work to give Kwannon a distinct voice and posture from Betsy Psylocke which signals a good future for the character for me

[Killerbee911]

Betsy is less of a stereotype because she's a white woman who became Asian. It's a helluva lot more unique than just being a sexy Asian ninja like Kwannon. And yeah, it's kind of racist, but so is Kwannon.

How is character created to be an Asian ninja racist? No If Jubilee, Surge, Armor, Karma, Sunfire were to be turn into ninjas that would be racist. Kwannon is a technically stereotype but if you decide to make popular female ninja as character what are your options? Stereotypes some times happen for a reason. Anyways the reason I mention all of those non ninja Asian characters is because while Betsy was running around being popular Asian sexy ninja woman, Those characters sat on the sideline and the X-book never had urge to push an Asian character because they had very popular one. The only thing that character wasn't Asian she was a British white woman. Some Betsy fans should just sit any convo about character traits being given to other character.

A white character was made popular on back of stereotype of Asians but it is wrong the Asian character to try become popular on the same Asian stereotype used by the white character . No character in all of comics has benefit from traits not associated with character being put on character more than Betsy. Betsy is literally the poster child for any character in comics can be made good because she shows that you can literally make one character into a completely different character. Stop complaining , because the thing you are talking about one of your favorite characters benefited from the most. Why shouldn't another character benefit in the same way?