X of Swords (Summer X-Over)

[nx01a]

I'm reminded of the X-Men: Empyre miniseries which started off serious with bits of humour but progressed into an inconsistent mess before ending... well... mercifully.

[Havok83]

I'm reminded of the X-Men: Empyre miniseries which started off serious with bits of humour but progressed into an inconsistent mess before ending... well... mercifully.

To quote myself earlier:

XOS as spearheaded by Hickman/Tini is Empyre:X-men on a much grander scale

[baxer]

I'm reminded of the X-Men: Empyre miniseries which started off serious with bits of humour but progressed into an inconsistent mess before ending... well... mercifully.

It realy feels the same, seems like Empyre was a warning that readers ignored. Instead of 4 issues it is a 22 parts events

I don't particularly care myself, but it does not take much observation to see that the panel time the Arakkii have had has been nonsense. That's fine for Howard because I doubt her part of the story cares and just showing nonsensical weddings, arm wrestling and games of find the ball are all she wants, however even Hickman has had five-plus books to flesh things out and all he has given is vague and conflicting stories that only really tell us Amenth is a conquering horde.

They are wasting pages that we could get some chaarcters progression ad concrete info instead of retelling same story
it feels like these books aren't well edited

[pkingdom]

Manga introduce big bad guy groups and give them at least serviceable development in fewer chapters than the 22 X of Swords has had. If the actual swords are not important, they could have easily used that time to give development to the Arraki people, especially if they are meant to stick around. Hell, given how shallow some of the sword hunting issues where, you could have split each issue into half-Arraki swordbearer and half Krakoan.

Subverting expectations is usually just an excuse for lazy writing. At this rate the climax of Apocalypse and Genesis could end up being a potato sack race.

[TooFlyToFail]

How dishonest? They even said that the match between Magik and Pogg Ur-Pogg would be without swords.

"The event is not exactly what I predicted it was going to be" is not that they fool you.

Yes, dishonest.

This event was hyped as an Apocalypse event, that focused on his lost family and people. We've barely learned much beyond the surface.

The sword collecting and pre-stasis issues pushed a dire situation and tone. Even if the swords were ultimately a red herring, that doesn't change the fact that promise in stakes and the tone has been completely flipped. There's no way Betsy and Summoner are dead; not with previews, the shady anticlimactic nature of both their deaths and the Summoner foreshadowing. What was the point of Cypher's New Mutants chapter? I don't mean him being in a sword fight. I'm talking about how they were tackling the mentality of non-combatant chosen/forced to be put to death in a futile challenge. All that set-up.....for a marriage between two characters whom don't know each other, one of which we know almost nothing about.

How can you not see how there's literally no bridge between the two plot points with Cypher?

Rockslide was killed to show the dire stakes, yet Betsy's "death" is just another joke, which clashes with what we were originally presented with and keep being told.

Flipping expectations is only shallow fun, that works once, if there's no substantive reason and effect. Maybe that will be the case for Saturnyne, but how will that be case for Cypher or Betsy. These plot decisions aren't building of the character work laid out previously. How is telling us that this event is life or death, only to give us a fight where dying was the point, an arm wrestling match, a wedding (that both participants are just suddenly okay with, for no reason) and an footrace good for anything other than a laugh.

They wasted issues, that had to be bought, telling us a different story that was to take place. If this ultimately ends up a Saturnyne thing, then it's dishonest, because the event was NOT sold or written as that, until after Stasis.

Even with fights being rigged, where's the impact of these revelations if they're just being shot out 2-4 times an issue? Like already said by another, Wolverine vs Summoner being a whole issue, and us getting their mental states and their interactions, only for us to get that Yu Yu Hakusho Dark Tournament screw job at the end would've been far more weighty.

It would also help if the drinking game wasn't so light-hearted. Wolverine lost, and this is supposed to be the lives of all their people on the line, right? You wouldn't think so.

[TooFlyToFail]

No, it isn't.

Nothing about the story up until that point has changed. It still fits into it's exact spot in the narrative.

Yes it has changed. Doug bravely stepped up to the plate knowing he was going to die.

Now he's married to a monster of a woman who has FOR SOME REASON vowed to, and I quote "Fight for you like the current that swallows the sand". So yeah, take away his moment to prove himself, take away his agency and give him a female Black Bolt meets Kratos to protect him from all harm.

[TooFlyToFail]

For those wanting more character development of the Arrakoans - how would you go about it? A tie-in issue? Make the 22 books even longer by adding more dedicated issues?

We already have people complaining about the length of the event, and other readers who complain about too much focus on Arrako/Other World and just want to read about Magneto. People complain about the character development on Apocalypse.

Having a Solem tie-in issue seems too much, as he already has enough personality/motivations setup from the earlier Wolverine issues.
We know next to nothing about the Horseman. War is especially underdeveloped, I do agree we could use more backstory for her. But Death? I think he is sufficiently fleshed out for the purpose of this event - religious, is fascinated by Storm, etc.

I feel like this event so far has given us enough backstory / characterization of the Arrakoans for the purposes of this event, with enough there for future comics to flesh out (aside from Summoner, but they could certainly use another version of him, or even bring him back to life enslaved by the White Sword).

In Hickman's Infinity event, I was intrigued enough by the Black Order. They didn't require an excessive amount of back story, and thought what we got was sufficient for the purposes of the event. I view the Black Order and the Arrakoans as comparable in their respective events.

1) Don't waste so much time on these characters like the Hellions, Cable and Jamie.

2) Create a event mini, as a companion to the event, in which issue focused on a different member of the Arakki representative. Written by Hickman/Ellis/Ewing.

3) No Tini. Just give her book to Hickman or an Ellis/Ewing type. People that can handle the grand and convoluted, like that of an Otherworld, with far more tact and an skill.

4) The Solem tie-ins are fine, in fact, we needed more stuff like that; more interactions.

5) Would've been great if some of the swords needed to be obtain from the opposite worlds. Like Death needing to go to Necropolis, rather than Ororo, and we got Ororo getting involved and having to let it happen for the prophecy.

6) An X of Swords mini, more than just Creation, Stasis and Destruction, that fleshed out Saturnyne, and Jaspers, and the other realm leaders. If Jaime needs spotlight, put him in this series.

7) Replace Cable with either Magneto or Mikhail.

It'd technically be longer, yes, but this is a more efficient way of fleshing out all these characters and do world building without the constant info pages.

[numberthirty]

Yes it has changed. Doug bravely stepped up to the plate knowing he was going to die.

Now he's married to a monster of a woman who has FOR SOME REASON vowed to, and I quote "Fight for you like the current that swallows the sand". So yeah, take away his moment to prove himself, take away his agency and give him a female Black Bolt meets Kratos to protect him from all harm.

Not really.

Nothing about the story, up until and through that issue, has changed.

What you assumed it meant that the future of the story had in store?

No writer should be chained to those sorts of expectations.

[sensormellow]

I'll be the one to say it.

Subversion is not why the turn in these recent issues is bad. Subversion is merely a tool and not an end. The real reason this twist falls flat is because the pacing and tonality has shifted incredibly. For 13 (15 if you count the prelude) chapters, they have made us believe 3 things

1. this is serious
2. this is methodical
3. this is harrowing

Now, I feel you can subvert any one of the 3 at any given time to help make a point, but these last 3 chapters have essentially subverted all of them, and in so doing, made the rest of the event look like a farce and subsequently tanked the narrative's cohesion. All of the story beats shown in the last 3 chapters, can all work in the framework of the 13 that preceded them, if they kept at least some of initial framework.

Imagine if excalibur was just the Betsy's fight with Isca and the fall out. Let's say it was as short as it was in Excalibur, but instead of quickly pivoting the Doug and Bei wedding... they let the reality of Betsy being killed, Betsy being killed EASILY, breathe. See how it affects all the other Krakoan Swordbearers and further punctuate the idea that this is real, and that the stakes are damning.

Imagine if Wolverine's fight with Summoner took up the entire issue. We got just one whole issue dedicated to Wolverine facing down Summoner, the murderer of Rockslide and traitor to Krakoa. Imagine how much you could say or not say with an issue just bouncing between dead realities and then after 19 pages of fighting, Wolverine finally manages to come out on top... only for Saturnyne to let the shoe drop and reveal that the games are at her whim.


Imagine if they had an entire issue dedicated to Doug being completely in the dark about what his challenge was and having the readers experience paranoia, fear and uncertainty until the rug was pulled out from under us with the wedding.

You can make scenarios inconsistent, while still keeping the consistency of the tone of the overall narrative.

A whole gospel! I guess they wanted the mood whiplash to catch us off-guard, like "omg anything can happen literally anything" but they failed.

[Gigantor]

To quote myself earlier:

That’s the one where the clone talked to his zombie self and yet we are still supposed to assume their not clones because of bullshit like talking about “anama” #therenotus

[Gigantor]

Manga introduce big bad guy groups and give them at least serviceable development in fewer chapters than the 22 X of Swords has had. If the actual swords are not important, they could have easily used that time to give development to the Arraki people, especially if they are meant to stick around. Hell, given how shallow some of the sword hunting issues where, you could have split each issue into half-Arraki swordbearer and half Krakoan.

Subverting expectations is usually just an excuse for lazy writing. At this rate the climax of Apocalypse and Genesis could end up being a potato sack race.

I would love to see that lol I swear if they just wanted a light hearted comedy crossover why didn’t they just do that from the start? Just make it all crazy and goofing around and insane. Make the battle between the sword bearers a game of baseball as is tradition!

[Rnap22]

This is basically Excalibur but without most of the cast from Excalibur doing anything important. Poorly executed when Hickman isn’t there to help.

[Exodus]

my secret of enjoying this event: only read Creation, Stasis, and (probably) Destruction.

I think from now on I will really limit what I collect because I just do not enjoy the work of the authors from Excalibur, Marauders, Cable, etc.

[Rnap22]

my secret of enjoying this event: only read Creation, Stasis, and (probably) Destruction.

I think from now on I will really limit what I collect because I just do not enjoy the work of the authors from Excalibur, Marauders, Cable, etc.

Those single issues have been the best between the story and art.

[Purplevit]

my secret of enjoying this event: only read Creation, Stasis, and (probably) Destruction.

I think from now on I will really limit what I collect because I just do not enjoy the work of the authors from Excalibur, Marauders, Cable, etc.

The power of Larraz and Gracia!