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  1. #2821
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    If you start arguing "why is this character doing this and not another" is like saying "Why in New York does Spider-man have to stop this villain and not Daredevil, Luke Cage or another of the literally hundreds of heroes of the city"?.

  2. #2822
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    It depends. When X-Men Gold started I was demanding to know why Illyana was leaving the team the exact moment her best friend was joining it. It wasn't a powers thing. It was questioning why she wasn't with her brother and Kitty, the two people she loves most. When it came to the suicide mission in House of X, I had no such questions because even though it would have made sense for Xavier and Magneto to send someone who could cast cloaking spells and teleport interstellar distances on that mission, it wouldn't have fit with the story they were trying to tell.

  3. #2823
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Regarding the mission in HoX, one has to keep in mind they were in an urgent one, so who knows how long Cyclops had to recruit people. But yeah, it was obvious Hickman wanted everyone to die.

  4. #2824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Regarding the mission in HoX, one has to keep in mind they were in an urgent one, so who knows how long Cyclops had to recruit people. But yeah, it was obvious Hickman wanted everyone to die.
    Yeah, they had dozens of better options. Beast or Sage or Forge could do some math in their heads, point Havok or Cyclops in the right direction and just blow Orchis out of space from Earth, if they really wanted. It's not like either of them have a real limit on how much zap they can throw... Use Exodus as the teleporter, and have him deliver a strike team of Magneto, Proteus and Vulcan, or something. Bam, station destroyed! Ilyanna steps to the station and opens a portal to hell and floods it with demons. Warlock touches it, infests it with TOvirus and takes it over. Scanner flies over all intangible at light speed and fries everyone's brains, *and* all the machines!

    Really, there's just far too many options!

    And the question is, was it *Hickman* that wanted everyone to die, or was it Moira, or Xavier, who needed them to get resurrection protocolled so that their minds would get reset to the new 'get onboard with Krakoa' paradigm? Let's just cherry pick a strike team of mutants who'd be most likely to have ethical qualms about what we're doing, are best positioned to motivate others to question what we're doing, etc. and just rewrite their brains.
    Last edited by Sutekh; 12-02-2020 at 02:30 PM.

  5. #2825
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Well it wasn’t a stealth mission as that went out the window when the station noticed the Shi’Ar space craft the team was traveling in it was a get in/get out as fast as possible mission which isn’t really the same, I’d have to double check but I don’t think they ever actually planned it to be stealth either. I will agree that Husk is an odd choice but my thought on her is she can basically become bullet proof if needed. Archangel would have room to fly as the space station was extremely massive, but even if he’s limited in flight he is a capable fighter. The rest of the teams power sets don’t really need clarification I suppose as they really do excel in combat. My main point is that the team was well suited for the mission especially knowing what was at stake and that they could be brought back if and when the ultimate sacrifice was needed.
    the space station wasnt massive. We saw small quarters and even if we hadnt, the X-men didnt know what the layout of the thing was before they went out there. He seemed like a poor choice as his strength is recon and large open spaces to be the most effective. Being on a space station works against him, especially since they anticipated that it would be heavily guarded. He and Husk as choices for that mission always seemed puzzling. Polaris would have made more sense and we knew she was available. Even on that mission, it didnt make sense to send Kurt in first for recon (especially since he was not stealthy and alerted Orchis to their presence) when they had Jean whom could have scanned the station and allowed them to get in without the unneesary casualties and damages caused. The issues were a fun read but there were choices made that didnt make sense for the characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    And the question is, was it *Hickman* that wanted everyone to die, or was it Moira, or Xavier, who needed them to get resurrection protocolled so that their minds would get reset to the new 'get onboard with Krakoa' paradigm? Let's just cherry pick a strike team of mutants who'd be most likely to have ethical qualms about what we're doing, are best positioned to motivate others to question what we're doing, etc. and just rewrite their brains.
    Why do people still feel this? All those characters were already on board for Krakoa. Had they not been, they wouldnt have been there. There wasnt an in story reason for why the charaters had to die. This was merely a plot point for Hickman to explain the resurrection process in a dramatic way and it fufilled that purpose. If Xavier wanted to rewrite their brains, he doesnt need to kill them and go through this unnecesarily complicated process of resurrecting them to do so. We've seen him wipe away memories and brainwash people and its of little effort to him
    Last edited by Havok83; 12-02-2020 at 02:48 PM.

  6. #2826

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    I had mixed feelings about X of Swords. I mostly agreed with the takes on here and elsewhere that the tonal shifts and pacing throughout did not make it a particularly enthralling read. Frustrating at times. And the world building here is admirable, but it really gets dull if it's mostly the data pages that fill you in.

    Much like Tini's Excalibur, there were multiple points during the event where it felt like we'd missed key scenes, dialogue or other plot points page to page or issue to issue. Very..odd story-telling. I do look forward to a reread though. The high points were really high.

  7. #2827
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    the space station wasnt massive. We saw small quarters and even if we hadnt, the X-men didnt know what the layout of the thing was before they went out there. He seemed like a poor choice as his strength is recon and large open spaces to be the most effective. Being on a space station works against him, especially since they anticipated that it would be heavily guarded. He and Husk as choices for that mission always seemed puzzling. Polaris would have made more sense and we knew she was available. Even on that mission, it didnt make sense to send Kurt in first for recon (especially since he was not stealthy and alerted Orchis to their presence) when they had Jean whom could have scanned the station and allowed them to get in without the unneesary casualties and damages caused. The issues were a fun read but there were choices made that didnt make sense for the characters
    Iím not going to argue the size of the station with you, all I will say is go back and look at the list of how many people it housed, and then look at the scale of Wolverine v Mothermold and then realize the station was large enough to hold Mothermold. Massive is the correct term. Again, it wasnít a stealth mission as the X-Men were seen coming before they landed. Kurt didnít alert anyone to anything as they knew they were coming. Kurt doing recon does makes sense because Jean and Monet were running comms to earth for the mission, she was teaming with M during recon to hold open comms. Even at the end of the mission it is explicitly stated that Jean can barely keep the link by herself so there is no logical way to say she could do that and scan the station to find the releases for Mothermold. Letís not forget that Orchis blew up the X-Menís ship so they have to breach and odds are there will be some casualties because they then need to find a way off the station. Saying Polaris should have replaced Angel is a valid argument, but itís pointless because she wouldíve been dead before the action anyway just like Angel was.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  8. #2828
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I’m not going to argue the size of the station with you, all I will say is go back and look at the list of how many people it housed, and then look at the scale of Wolverine v Mothermold and then realize the station was large enough to hold Mothermold. Massive is the correct term. Again, it wasn’t a stealth mission as the X-Men were seen coming before they landed. Kurt didn’t alert anyone to anything as they knew they were coming. Kurt doing recon does makes sense because Jean and Monet were running comms to earth for the mission, she was teaming with M during recon to hold open comms. Even at the end of the mission it is explicitly stated that Jean can barely keep the link by herself so there is no logical way to say she could do that and scan the station to find the releases for Mothermold. Let’s not forget that Orchis blew up the X-Men’s ship so they have to breach and odds are there will be some casualties because they then need to find a way off the station. Saying Polaris should have replaced Angel is a valid argument, but it’s pointless because she would’ve been dead before the action anyway just like Angel was.
    If even Jean and Monet together, the two most powerful members on the team and some of the most powerful X-men, couldn't prevent the team from all dying then Polaris thrown in the mix isn't going to make much difference. The goal of the mission wasn't stealth, it was to stop the mother mold from coming online, which they succeeded. The mission was high risk and they all knew there was a strong possibility of dying when they agreed. They were facing an entire army of nimrods and sentinels, quite literally David against Goliath. Lorna on the team wouldn't have changed the outcome, she would have been just another dead body.

  9. #2829
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    My theory/headcanon is that they wanted some high profile X-Men to die to showcase the resurrection protocols.

  10. #2830
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    If even Jean and Monet together, the two most powerful members on the team and some of the most powerful X-men, couldn't prevent the team from all dying then Polaris thrown in the mix isn't going to make much difference. The goal of the mission wasn't stealth, it was to stop the mother mold from coming online, which they succeeded. The mission was high risk and they all knew there was a strong possibility of dying when they agreed. They were facing an entire army of nimrods and sentinels, quite literally David against Goliath. Lorna on the team wouldn't have changed the outcome, she would have been just another dead body.
    That's what I'm saying as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    My theory/headcanon is that they wanted some high profile X-Men to die to showcase the resurrection protocols.
    I think you may be on to something here...
    You brought back Wolverine

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  11. #2831
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    We're all entitled to our opinions and imo XoS is miles better than the dreck we got with Battle of the Atom, Disassembled, and Age of X-man.
    Disassembled wasn't bad actually ,just had weird character choices for Xman's horsemen and that didn't help ,but it was good,maybe it would have been a little better with a more epic Legion-Xman battle prior to Legion imprisoning Xman in his mind

  12. #2832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Of those mutants, one is slated to be a major new Wolverine foe. So weíll definitely see more of Solem. Hopefully he ends up being a meaningful addition to Loganís rogues gallery.

    Furthermore, Apocalypse is also out of the QC and gone from the X-books for awhile. So thatís a major development. This was really his story after all, and I liked that it got a fitting end... for now at least.

    Also, the X-men took over the Peak orbital space station and will begin mutant exploration of deep space in SWORD. Another major development.

    Kid Cable showed a major departure from the classic version, in regressing from all the training and hell that heís gone through in his future which made him a ruthless and competent character to being ďjust a scared and soft teenage boy crying for mommy and daddy.Ē So that indicates a future for him here in the present Reign of X era where he may never go back to his time, and instead will stay here and grow up to be a very different man from the original (OG version). What implications that has for the timeline Iím not sure. Does it even matter, since the future where he was raised is just another alternate timeline at this point? After all, Apocalypse being reunited with his family and being taken off the board seems to indicate that he will never become the tyrannical despot in the future that Cable was raised to kill anyway. So I suppose it makes Kid Cable more of a blank slate in that regard. Just with an even more complicated back story. But if you think of it as a character ďresetĒ, I guess it works. He came back, killed his older self, and via X of Swords completely prevented the terrible future timeline he was raised in. So now he has a new lease on life? Feels that way for now.

    Oh, and the Captain Britain Corps is back and we donít know where our Betsy Braddock is.

    Those are just a few more of the developments to come out of this event.
    I'm all for Solem being a thorn in Logan's side but I'd like more explanation of his actual mutation, if he was born in adamantium skin then his inner cells must have some sort of longevity ability, maybe not regenerative (explains why he was impressed by Logan being unkillable) but he must have some superpower to go along with the skin.Or maybe his skin could mimick the texture and strength of any surface but he chose to permanently copy adamantium.Or maybe he was augmented in crooked market for a price...Intriguing character regardless

  13. #2833
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    My theory/headcanon is that they wanted some high profile X-Men to die to showcase the resurrection protocols.
    Oh Xavier definitely wanted to make martyrs out of them while also needing some of the best X-men to pull off the mission.

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