What do you think were the most irrelevant/useless retcons

[Jon Clark]

The birthing matrix in John Byrne's Man of Steel to have Superman actually "born" in America when he lands on Earth.

The one thing I give the "birthing matrix" is that it made it possible for Clark to be the Kent's natural child. There are so many plot holes to jump when they suddenly have a toddler show up. Either they pass him off as "child of my relative just newlt orphaned" without paperwork or "hi-jinks at the Smallville Orphanage that no one ever connects to the later superhero.

[Jon Clark]

The re-retconning in of Superboy in "Secret Origins" was the most irrelevant to me. Outside of Johns' restoring the original Legion in the 30th Century, did it ever get brought up in a 20th Century story? Did we get one thing not involving the Legion that changed by re-introducing a Superboy career into Clark's history? And I say this as someone who loved the Superboy stories in Pre-Crisis.

The Speed Force tying in people outside of Barry and Wally always seemed too reductivist. We knew Superman had super-speed but didn't need the Speed Force. So why couldn't guys like Johnny Quick just remain their own thing separate from the Flash Family? Would anything have been lost if it was just Max and Barry's legacy (Wally, Thawne, Bart) using the Speed Force? Was anything gained by folding in almost every speedster alive?

Same thing with the retcons trying to tie Alan's magic lantern to the Oan Corps.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I couldn't agree more. Actually i don't think any original supporting cast should be ever be changed from their original purpose. Better written and developped, absolutly, but never be shoved aside.

Just wait until Diana starts her superhero career in WW II. That'll impact her supporting cast...

[phantom1592]

An odder one still: When Lana Lang is first introduced in a Superboy story, she is moving into Smallville as a teenager, and meeting the Kents for (what seems to be) the first time. But later Superbaby stories included a baby Lana Lang that little Clark was friends with. I have a vague recollection that they actually commented on this in a letter page: Lana and her family lived in Smallville when she was little, moved away, then moved back in when she was a teenager. Not terribly convincing.

That actually could work for me. Admittedly it depends on how the story is written I guess... but I still remember when I met my best friend in 8th grade and then sometime around 10th or 11th, we discovered an old school picture and realized we were in the same preschool together. Whatever happened as babies not effecting teenager's stories could be completely legit.



Again... if written well. Which I doubt silver age stuff was.

[phantom1592]

Same thing with the retcons trying to tie Alan's magic lantern to the Oan Corps.

Ehhh don't agree with that. once you take away the earth 1/ earth 2 aspect of separation I think it's kind of necessary. As for the 'magic' aspect... I think THAT's kind of unnecessary. It's a ring... it's a lantern... it creates the same constructs and hands and does everything that the other rings do.... with no logical earth explaination. Having Alan BELIEVE that it's magic when Hal was explained it's actually super advanced space science is good enough for me. For all intents and purposes, Hal's is just as magic as Alan's is.

[Jon Clark]

Ehhh don't agree with that. once you take away the earth 1/ earth 2 aspect of separation I think it's kind of necessary. As for the 'magic' aspect... I think THAT's kind of unnecessary. It's a ring... it's a lantern... it creates the same constructs and hands and does everything that the other rings do.... with no logical earth explaination. Having Alan BELIEVE that it's magic when Hal was explained it's actually super advanced space science is good enough for me. For all intents and purposes, Hal's is just as magic as Alan's is.

I can see the need for some connection, just not the need to make it the same thing. I prefer the Oans to have at most a superficial connection with Alan. Making the Starheart somehow influenced by the existence of the space Corps but using different energies. Maybe the Guardians created the Starheart unintentionally (Roy Thomas' take), maybe some Terran encountered a Green lantern and imprinted the idea on the magic when using it to try duplicating the space cop's powers. Anything but making the Starheart just a regular GL power battery with the weakness swapped from yellow to wood. Especially now that the yellow weakness has pretty much been dropped for Hal and the others.

[Gurz]

Barry having a tragic origin now.

[AdamFTF]

Barry having a tragic origin now.

This one.

And Johns trying to turn it around backwards so that his preoccupation with the loss of his parents is holding him back rather than driving him on does not make it more clever.

[Restingvoice]

Tim never Robin

Like it changes nothing XD
He still wears a Robin costume, he's still counted as the Robins, and he still has his New 52 edgy personality, and he still spent only a year under Batman's tutelage. The fact that he wasn't a Robin was only mentioned in like one or two conversations or narration panel in Lobdell's book. It doesn't affect anything.

What matters to Tim's status in New 52 was literally everything else, but not that part XD

[DrNewGod]

I can see the need for some connection, just not the need to make it the same thing. I prefer the Oans to have at most a superficial connection with Alan. Making the Starheart somehow influenced by the existence of the space Corps but using different energies. Maybe the Guardians created the Starheart unintentionally (Roy Thomas' take), maybe some Terran encountered a Green lantern and imprinted the idea on the magic when using it to try duplicating the space cop's powers. Anything but making the Starheart just a regular GL power battery with the weakness swapped from yellow to wood. Especially now that the yellow weakness has pretty much been dropped for Hal and the others.

I was always of the opinion writers should have made The Starheart a prototype of the material made to build the Central Power Battery, stolen by the Manhunters during their revolt, and made the compulsion to make a lamp of it a psychic impression from the Guardians embedded in the material's construction.

[Gaius]

Yeah, I was never much of a fan of that, particularly since he was recycling the gimmick from Alpha Flight. I kept waiting for an issue where we find out he Kryptonians looked nothing like humans.

Yeah, there were a lot of Superman retcons that made a big difference to the Mythos under Byrne. The Birthing Matrix was not one of them.

Wasn't there a reveal that a 5-D imp similar to Mxyzptlk was actually the source of the lightning that gave Barry Allen his powers? Used in one story and then promptly forgotten?

Here's another one of the same kind: Superman passed through some red Kryptonite or something as he was landing on Earth - and two Kal-Els landed, the original on the Kent farm, the duplicate was raised by a criminal and grew up to be "Super-Crook" or something like that. I'm pretty sure he died at the end. If anyone can tell me what issue that was in, by the way, I'd appreciate it.

Good one. Like a lot of post-Crisis changes it actively erasing some nuance to the character, but at the same time even offered little in terms of even a general practical difference to play with. So he was literally American. So what, he was American before that in all ways that count.

The one thing I give the "birthing matrix" is that it made it possible for Clark to be the Kent's natural child. There are so many plot holes to jump when they suddenly have a toddler show up. Either they pass him off as "child of my relative just newlt orphaned" without paperwork or "hi-jinks at the Smallville Orphanage that no one ever connects to the later superhero.

I otherwise, mostly, like Byrne's Man of Steel but yeah the Birthing Matrix just came off as an unnecessary doubling down on the idea of "Clark is the real one, Superman is the mask" that the rest of the story was fine with.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Can't believe no one has brought this retcon up yet: the immediately ignored notion that Barry Allen is the creator of the Speed Force and power source of all the various speedsters throughout the past, present and future

[Jon Clark]

Can't believe no one has brought this retcon up yet: the immediately ignored notion that Barry Allen is the creator of the Speed Force and power source of all the various speedsters throughout the past, present and future

I did mention that it shouldn't have applied to every speedster, but I forgot about Barry actually generating it both forwards and backwards through time. That was taking an idea that shouldn't be able to get worse and making it worse

[Agent Z]

Donna being a mirror clone of Diana.

Hippolyta letting Heracles enslave the Amazons.

Wonder Woman being back in World War 2 (it's like superhero writers know of only one war in history).

[Jackalope89]

Can't believe no one has brought this retcon up yet: the immediately ignored notion that Barry Allen is the creator of the Speed Force and power source of all the various speedsters throughout the past, present and future

Eh, I don't know about that. Not to mention the whole spiel about Barry becoming the lightning bolt that gave himself powers. It just feels kind of contrived to me.