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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Default Great stories that were made possible by bad ones?

    Every cloud has a silver lining, and even in comic books that's true. What are notable examples of this?

    The one that immediately comes to mind is the original Thunderbolts. It took place directly after the awful Onslaught event and in the regrettable Heroes Reborn status quo. Remember, this was their attempt to "reboot" Marvel during financial turmoil, by segregating the Avengers and the Fantastic Four to another universe, one that was led by Rob Liefeld. The thought was that the Avengers and the Fantastic Four were no longer relevant in the '90s Mutantmania, and they would make them stand out without any mutants taking their thunder. It was as bad as you would expect.

    In the main universe, there was a notable absence of the greatest heroes, leaving only mutants left, or street level heroes like Spider-Man and the New Warriors. Practically no big heroes in the world who could fight the big fight. This is where the Thunderbolts came in, to become the next great superhero team in honor of the Avengers.

    Only they were actually the Masters of Evil in disguise.



    It was a great story, one about villains getting redeemed as heroes (and one of Zemo's best villain stories) with it being like a reconstruction of the original Avengers concept, and one that could only be told in the status quo that was post-Onslaught, where all the revered heroes were missing. Not to mention that the Thunderbolts have lasted since then, as a Marvel staple. Look at how Screaming Mimi was just a D-list thug before, but a dark horse for Marvel after as Songbird. Likewise, Beetle was just a joke character to get beat up, but became a legit hero who was a lot more likable as MACH. As said, this was one of Baron Zemo's most memorable stories.

    But yes, Onslaught itself was a bad story that made no sense, and Heroes Reborn was a terrible, terrible idea. However, it did give us the Thunderbolts, making that worth it I'd say. It helps that Kurt Busiek is way, way more talented than either Scott Lobdell or Rob Liefeld. It was kind of making the best of a bad situation.

    Anything else to note?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Matt Fraction's "To Have and to Hold" (with Salvador Larocca) was by his own admission, "dirty pool because I knew One More Day was coming".

    This story is the only Spider-Man story Fraction ever wrote, it got him nominated for an Eisner, and got him gigs with Invisible Iron Man (again with Larocca) and Hawkeye and so on. It's also a masterpiece, and it's written as a pre-emptive protest against OMD, which is an inversion of "bad story that inspired good stories" i.e. not a good story that came out of a bad story already published, but a great story written in advance of a "bad story" as a warning and protest.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Mark Waid's run on Daredevil was like a breath of fresh air after Diggle's run.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Matt Fraction's "To Have and to Hold" (with Salvador Larocca) was by his own admission, "dirty pool because I knew One More Day was coming".

    This story is the only Spider-Man story Fraction ever wrote, it got him nominated for an Eisner, and got him gigs with Invisible Iron Man (again with Larocca) and Hawkeye and so on. It's also a masterpiece, and it's written as a pre-emptive protest against OMD, which is an inversion of "bad story that inspired good stories" i.e. not a good story that came out of a bad story already published, but a great story written in advance of a "bad story" as a warning and protest.
    Great pick!

    What an amazing F.U. to OMD

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Superior Foes of Spider-Man is a million times better than the story it ties into, that of course being Superior Spider-Man. It's as smart and hilarious as the latter is dumb and contrived. However, it could only have been made possible by SSM.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Avengers Forever.

  7. #7
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    I'd say both the Young Avengers and the Champions are examples of this, as the teen teams launched out of Avengers Disassembled and Civil War II respectively (both Bendis events, as it happens). CWII is widely hated and Disassembled is divisive because of what happened to Scarlet Witch and several Avengers getting killed off. Without Champions, we probably wouldn't have the New Agents of Atlas team either, as there would've been no reason for Amadeus Cho to become Brawn when his Hulk solo book ended. Without YA, this year's Empyre event wouldn't have happened. So it's like a chain reaction. Multiple stories made possible by the earlier events.
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  8. #8
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    So, as an event, Fear Itself was pretty bad, but the Journey into Mystery tie-in was fantastic!

  9. #9
    Mighty Member norj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Avengers Forever.
    Still waiting for Songbird's Avengers debut.
    There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
    There is no fear, there is power.
    I am the heart of the Force.
    I am the revealing fire of light.
    I am the mystery of darkness.
    In balance with chaos and harmony,
    Immortal in the Force.

  10. #10
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    The "What if..." tie-in for "Age of Ultron". (I suspect that good tie-ins to bad events is going to be a pattern.)
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    -----------------------------
    - http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

  11. #11
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norj View Post
    Still waiting for Songbird's Avengers debut.
    Happened in Al Ewing's New Avengers.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Al Ewing's immortal hulk largely has many of it's foundations in Paul Jenkin's short run on the title, which was a bit 'meh' at times (Although better than the Bryne and Jones stuff it was in the middle of).
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

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  13. #13
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norj View Post
    Still waiting for Songbird's Avengers debut.
    As well as Genis-Vell's Avengers debut.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Superior Foes of Spider-Man is a million times better than the story it ties into, that of course being Superior Spider-Man. It's as smart and hilarious as the latter is dumb and contrived. However, it could only have been made possible by SSM.
    So I'm not the only one who though Superior Spider-Man was just crap pandering to the lowest common denominator. It is one of the dumbest things I've read in comics, no idea how so many people loved it.

    I would say Al Ewing's Captain America and the Mighty Avengers spinning off from Axis....it wasn't "great" but still way better than Axis.

  15. #15
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    So I'm not the only one who though Superior Spider-Man was just crap pandering to the lowest common denominator. It is one of the dumbest things I've read in comics, no idea how so many people loved it.

    I would say Al Ewing's Captain America and the Mighty Avengers spinning off from Axis....it wasn't "great" but still way better than Axis.
    They loved it because they loved seeing a darker, more violent, ruthless, and "efficient" Spider-Man in comparison to old "friendly neighborhood" Peter Parker, even if that version of Spider-Man completely (and mostly remorselessly) crapped all over what made Spider-Man the great hero that he was. It also didn't help that everyone who should've known Peter in both identities much better than that was written as incapable of putting two and two together and realizing that "Peter/Spider-Man" was an impostor and usurper. That said, I agree with you about Al Ewing's Captain America and the Mighty Avengers, especially since it gave Spider-Man an impressive speech rebuking not only the Inverted Avengers . . . but also Superior Spider-Man's actions and mentality.
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