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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    Falcon needs some solo villains if he is ever going to be more than just Captain America's former sidekick.
    Definitely agree on this...as Sam himself said when he showed up to Luke Cage's Mighty Avengers and was asked "where's Cap?"..."My first name isn't Captain America and..."

    I would love to see him team up with Teresa Parker and fight The Vulturions.

  2. #62
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Carol Danvers or Ant-Man as far as popular heroes go. (Iron Man is kinda weak too.) Spider-Gwen's are pretty lousy as well (when they aren't sad knock off versions of 616 villains they are guys dressed like the Hamburglar or Koala Bears.)

    If we are taking the entire Marvel roster of heroes then it is probably some C-list hero like Collective Man. I don't even know who he fights.
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  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Does anyone outside of Spider-Man, Batman, and maybe X-Men* have a truly great rouge's gallery?


    *X-Men has a lot of iconic villains, but also a lot of forgettable and smaller name characters, while Spidey and Bats have really consistent quality across the board.
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  4. #64
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Does anyone outside of Spider-Man, Batman, and maybe X-Men* have a truly great rouge's gallery?


    *X-Men has a lot of iconic villains, but also a lot of forgettable and smaller name characters, while Spidey and Bats have really consistent quality across the board.
    The FF and Thor do.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Does anyone outside of Spider-Man, Batman, and maybe X-Men* have a truly great rouge's gallery?
    Let's take Superman. Within DC, he is often considered to have a weak rogues gallery for instance but he has Luthor, Brainiac, Mr. Mxyzsptlk, Toyman, Bizarro, Zod, Doomsday...many of them have had iconic comics/animation/movie versions. There's not a single Iron Man villain on the level of any of these guys. Superman may be a hard character to make villains against, but his stable which has 6 iconic villains, including one that was so iconic that his name went into the language (that's right brainiac comes from the Coluan, not vice-versa as many might assume today).

    In the case of Marvel, there are quite a few rogues galleries that are for instance as good as, or better than Superman's.
    -- The Fantastic Four (who on the whole their problem might be that their rogues are more interesting than him) -- The Mole Man, the Puppetmaster, the Molecule Man, Annihilus, Galactus, the Skrulls, Namor, and of course, the greatest villain in all of comics, Doctor Doom.
    -- Thor has a pretty good Rogues Gallery these days with Gorr the God Butcher, Dario Agger, Jormungandr, a revived Malekith, Surtur the Fire Giant, The Mangog (aka Doomsday if he had good writing and art), and of course Loki when he's in the mood.
    -- Doctor Strange also has an awesome rogues gallery -- Dormammu, Shuma-Gorath, Nightmare, D'Spayre, Baron Mordo (especially the movie version).
    -- The X-Men have Magneto, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, The Juggernaut, the Sentinels, William Stryker, Mystique, Destiny, the Phoenix Force, the Hellfire Club, Cassandra Nova, Sublime, Arcade among others.

    In general, it's not rare for a character published over decades, to have one or two or three great villains. Batman and Spider-Man are exceptional for having quite a few iconic and influential versions compared to others.

    It is rare for a long serialized character to have no great villains. I mean is there an Iron Man villain as good as:
    -- Dr. Sivana, Black Adam, Mister Mind (SHAZAM)
    -- Doctor Destiny, Darkeid, Vandal Savage, Chronos the Time Thief, Despero, Deathstroke (Justice League)
    -- Klaw and Killmonger (Black Panther)


    As for Carol Danvers...I think it's not fair to compare her with Tony Stark, because her time as a major solo hero is still new and there's a lot of continuity stuff over the years that handicapped her leaving her a lot to overcome still whereas Tony Stark's been there for more than 50 years and got nothing to show for it.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 03-04-2020 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Definitely agree on this...as Sam himself said when he showed up to Luke Cage's Mighty Avengers and was asked "where's Cap?"..."My first name isn't Captain America and..."

    I would love to see him team up with Teresa Parker and fight The Vulturions.
    I’ve always felt that having your own rogue’s gallery is the true sign that a character has made it, and isn’t just a sidekick or part of an ensemble cast.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Let's take Superman. Within DC, he is often considered to have a weak rogues gallery for instance but he has Luthor, Brainiac, Mr. Mxyzsptlk, Toyman, Bizarro, Zod, Doomsday...many of them have had iconic comics/animation/movie versions. There's not a single Iron Man villain on the level of any of these guys. Superman may be a hard character to make villains against, but his stable which has 6 iconic villains, including one that was so iconic that his name went into the language (that's right brainiac comes from the Coluan, not vice-versa as many might assume today).

    In the case of Marvel, there are quite a few rogues galleries that are for instance as good as, or better than Superman's.
    -- The Fantastic Four (who on the whole their problem might be that their rogues are more interesting than him) -- The Mole Man, the Puppetmaster, the Molecule Man, Annihilus, Galactus, the Skrulls, Namor, and of course, the greatest villain in all of comics, Doctor Doom.
    -- Thor has a pretty good Rogues Gallery these days with Gorr the God Butcher, Dario Agger, Jormungandr, a revived Malekith, Surtur the Fire Giant, The Mangog (aka Doomsday if he had good writing and art), and of course Loki when he's in the mood.
    -- Doctor Strange also has an awesome rogues gallery -- Dormammu, Shuma-Gorath, Nightmare, D'Spayre, Baron Mordo (especially the movie version).
    -- The X-Men have Magneto, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, The Juggernaut, the Sentinels, William Stryker, Mystique, Destiny, the Phoenix Force, the Hellfire Club, Cassandra Nova, Sublime, Arcade among others.

    In general, it's not rare for a character published over decades, to have one or two or three great villains. Batman and Spider-Man are exceptional for having quite a few iconic and influential versions compared to others.

    It is rare for a long serialized character to have no great villains. I mean is there an Iron Man villain as good as:
    -- Dr. Sivana, Black Adam, Mister Mind (SHAZAM)
    -- Doctor Destiny, Darkeid, Vandal Savage, Chronos the Time Thief, Despero, Deathstroke (Justice League)
    -- Klaw and Killmonger (Black Panther)


    As for Carol Danvers...I think it's not fair to compare her with Tony Stark, because her time as a major solo hero is still new and there's a lot of continuity stuff over the years that handicapped her leaving her a lot to overcome still whereas Tony Stark's been there for more than 50 years and got nothing to show for it.
    Carol has had a solo series since the 70s. She is not new to this.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Carol has had a solo series since the 70s. She is not new to this.
    Technically you can say she had a solo series, but it's an ongoing cancelled, restarted, cancelled multiple times. It was under the title "Ms. Marvel" rather than Captain Marvel, and of course a good part of her story was sidetracked and diverted owing to the stuff with the Avengers and the X-Men, which was more to the benefit of those teams than her.

    Whereas Iron Man has had a solo series since the late '60s, a long record as an active Avenger, and an ongoing that has for the most part been continuously in print.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Let's take Superman. Within DC, he is often considered to have a weak rogues gallery for instance but he has Luthor, Brainiac, Mr. Mxyzsptlk, Toyman, Bizarro, Zod, Doomsday...many of them have had iconic comics/animation/movie versions. There's not a single Iron Man villain on the level of any of these guys. Superman may be a hard character to make villains against, but his stable which has 6 iconic villains, including one that was so iconic that his name went into the language (that's right brainiac comes from the Coluan, not vice-versa as many might assume today).

    In the case of Marvel, there are quite a few rogues galleries that are for instance as good as, or better than Superman's.
    -- The Fantastic Four (who on the whole their problem might be that their rogues are more interesting than him) -- The Mole Man, the Puppetmaster, the Molecule Man, Annihilus, Galactus, the Skrulls, Namor, and of course, the greatest villain in all of comics, Doctor Doom.
    -- Thor has a pretty good Rogues Gallery these days with Gorr the God Butcher, Dario Agger, Jormungandr, a revived Malekith, Surtur the Fire Giant, The Mangog (aka Doomsday if he had good writing and art), and of course Loki when he's in the mood.
    -- Doctor Strange also has an awesome rogues gallery -- Dormammu, Shuma-Gorath, Nightmare, D'Spayre, Baron Mordo (especially the movie version).
    -- The X-Men have Magneto, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, The Juggernaut, the Sentinels, William Stryker, Mystique, Destiny, the Phoenix Force, the Hellfire Club, Cassandra Nova, Sublime, Arcade among others.

    In general, it's not rare for a character published over decades, to have one or two or three great villains. Batman and Spider-Man are exceptional for having quite a few iconic and influential versions compared to others.

    It is rare for a long serialized character to have no great villains. I mean is there an Iron Man villain as good as:
    -- Dr. Sivana, Black Adam, Mister Mind (SHAZAM)
    -- Doctor Destiny, Darkeid, Vandal Savage, Chronos the Time Thief, Despero, Deathstroke (Justice League)
    -- Klaw and Killmonger (Black Panther)


    As for Carol Danvers...I think it's not fair to compare her with Tony Stark, because her time as a major solo hero is still new and there's a lot of continuity stuff over the years that handicapped her leaving her a lot to overcome still whereas Tony Stark's been there for more than 50 years and got nothing to show for it.
    Feels telling how you specifically pick on Iron Man, especially since you never mention Armored Adventures where a lot of his rogues did get very good showings.
    Then again you also say Thor's onlyy good villains are Loki and the recent additions so already a lot dubious claims here.
    Last edited by Skullkid; 03-05-2020 at 09:09 AM.

  10. #70
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Black Panther has a rogues gallery that could be great, but they are severely underutilized.
    Pull List:

    Marvel Comics: Black Panther, Captain America, X-Men, New Mutants.
    DC Comics: The Green Lantern, Strange Adventures, Far Sector, The Last God.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    Feels telling how you specifically pick on Iron Man, ...
    This is a public discussion page, contribute to the general discussion and the OP first before attacking and targeting one specific poster.

    And in any case, 6 Posters here (including me) voted that Iron Man had the worst Rogues Gallery.

    If you count the votes, it's Iron Man, Carol Danvers, Daredevil (for some reason), as characters with the weakest rogues gallery.

  12. #72
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    That would fly if the post hadn't started with "Superman has great villains Iron Man can't even compare" as a reply to a post that hadn't even mentioned him and then gave weak reasoning to specifically attack him.
    Like saying Carol is new to having solo series when she's been getting her own comics since the 70's

  13. #73
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOSLOX View Post
    Black Panther has a rogues gallery that could be great, but they are severely underutilized.
    I feel the same way about Iron-Man. He was going to be my pick, but on further evaluation, he actually has a pretty decent rogues gallery.

    Mandarin
    Fin Fang Foom
    Madame Masque
    Obadiah
    A.I.M
    Justin Hammer

    They just haven't been used properly, at all. It's to the point where most of those villains have bled over into being all-around Marvel villains.

  14. #74
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    The problem is that when Marvel maintained the Tony Stark and Iron Man are separate rouse, his book had more fantastical elements so he'd fight more traditional villains but most stories are espionage and business-related stories which result in Iron Man fighting villains who wear armour just like him and random saboteurs. After Tony was outed as Iron Man, it's mostly been espionage stories and a lot of the old villains don't appear anymore.

    Hell, remember Drax and Thanos were foils of Iron Man before they became part of the cosmic mythos.
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  15. #75
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Problems with Iron Man's rogues gallery

    1. Some writers don't use them
    2. They can overlap (spies and businessmen and Russians)
    3. Lot of Cold War stuff
    4. Obidiah never came back

    But like, a lot of them are good. Masque is good. Stane is good. Hammer is good. The Spymasters are good. Controller is good. Ghost is good. Living Laser was good. The first like 5 Dynamos are good. Mandarin is inconsistent. Arno's a welcome new addition. Just idk use them or tweak them for modern books like AA did?
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