Jogan (Jean and Logan appreciation) 2020

[TheCape]

Oh god i can't believe that i'm defending this, i feel the need to defend Logan for a bit. In spite of not liking the pairing.

1. Jean wasn't a teenager when they meet, she was at least 22. Logan is in his 130s right now, assuming that Origin is still canon anyway. Yes the age difference is big, but semi-immortals dating people with normal lifespans are not uncommon in fiction, especially because phisically they look around the same age (Selene and Michael for Underworld is a gender inverted example), plus Logan acts like a dude in his mid 30s to early 40s depending of the story, so is more like a man in his late 30s hitting on women in their 20s, a bit odd, but not particurlary gross. Personally speaking thougth, i prefer that his love interest to be at least in their mid-20s.

2. The sexual harrasment, it won't make any excuses on that part, his actitude toward Jean back in the 70s and 80s was pretty disgusting overall, is sadly a part of the times, because being agressive and not taking "no" for an answer was used for male characthers that were "badass" at the time, he is not only one with questioning methods of "flirting" and don't hold it againts him much, because i chalk it up to him being more wild and uncontrolable at the time for his expiriences on Weapon X (after that experiment Logan has more problems keeping his inner animal under control), still doesn't excuse his behavior of course and is the main reason of why don't like Jogan, no issue with the ones that do thought, ship you want to ship i don't judge. Worth mentioning, Logan in the 90s respected Jean wishes and was more than willing to let Scott and Jean alone, even forming a more healthy friendship with her (before Casey/Morrison bring the whole thing again anyway).

3. As for sexist...eh that's more difficult to determine to be honest, Logan never had a problem with being ordered for other women and has show respect for his female coworkers and sidekicks, always pushing the later to be better people. But he has done and say things that come across as sexist especially early in CC's run and there is the ocassional modern comic book when he shows shades of that, but overall he seems to not treat then very differently that men, but i supposed that him having some of level of sexims or even ignorance about the opposite sex might be possible...so i guest that one is up to your interpretation there. Feel free to speculate

[whitecrown]

Oh god i can't believe that i'm defending this, i feel the need to defend Logan for a bit. In spite of not liking the pairing.

1. Jean wasn't a teenager when they meet, she was at least 22. Logan is in his 130s right now, assuming that Origin is still canon anyway. Yes the age difference is big, but semi-immortals dating people with normal lifespans are not uncommon in fiction, especially because phisically they look around the same age (Selene and Michael for Underworld is a gender inverted example), plus Logan acts like a dude in his mid 30s to early 40s depending of the story, so is more like a man in his late 30s hitting on women in their 20s, a bit odd, but not particurlary gross. Personally speaking thougth, i prefer that his love interest to be at least in their mid-20s.

2. The sexual harrasment, it won't make any excuses on that part, his actitude toward Jean back in the 70s and 80s was pretty disgusting overall, is sadly a part of the times, because being agressive and not taking "no" for an answer was used for male characthers that were "badass" at the time, he is not only one with questioning methods of "flirting" and don't hold it againts him much, because i chalk it up to him being more wild and uncontrolable at the time for his expiriences on Weapon X (after that experiment Logan has more problems keeping his inner animal under control), still doesn't excuse his behavior of course and is the main reason of why don't like Jogan, no issue with the ones that do thought, ship you want to ship i don't judge. Worth mentioning, Logan in the 90s respected Jean wishes and was more than willing to let Scott and Jean alone, even forming a more healthy friendship with her (before Casey/Morrison bring the whole thing again anyway).

3. As for sexist...eh that's more difficult to determine to be honest, Logan never had a problem with being ordered for other women and has show respect for his female coworkers and sidekicks, always pushing the later to be better people. But he has done and say things that come across as sexist especially early in CC's run and there is the ocassional modern comic book when he shows shades of that, but overall he seems to not treat then very differently that men, but i supposed that him having some of level of sexims or even ignorance about the opposite sex might be possible...so i guest that one is up to your interpretation there. Feel free to speculate

Thank you for pointing all this out.

And yes, Logan's early depictions did portray him as slightly sexist in the way he would refer to Storm as a "broad" but he's clearly grown since that, even under Claremont's own pen. The Wolverine in the late 70s was radically different from the same Wolverine in the mid 80s.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Obviously, you can't rip a woman's dress damn-near clean off of her with a shit-eating grin, just because she said it was hard to walk in it, and "what Wolverine wants, he gets" comes off as aggression more than it does the confidence they were probably trying to display, but that kind of stuff was very much a thing of the past and doesn't mean that's how people wants the character to be now.

Don't get me wrong, though. Wolverine's brashness is important to the character, and while they didn't toe the line as best they could in Wolverine and Jean's earliest interactions, I do think women actually prefer that a guy is tactful but upfront with any intentions to one day have sex with her. That hanging around, 'being her friend while secretly pining for her' thing isn't cute in 2020 either.

[Keno]

Worth mentioning, Logan in the 90s respected Jean wishes and was more than willing to let Scott and Jean alone, even forming a more healthy friendship with her (before Casey/Morrison bring the whole thing again anyway).

During Casey's run, Logan never budged into her. More like a near-death experience. Nor he came to her by stalking her into the woods. It was the other way around.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

It's always funny when some people bash the age difference between Logan and Jean but then have no problem with the age difference between Magneto and Rogue, Logan is not 150, he was born in the late 1880's, so he's around 135, and by now Jean is not 22, she's closer to 30 or older, yeah it's an age difference but his healing factor keeps him physically young like a man in his 40's or so...Logan has evolved as a character over the years, I think in the early years he was often used as a stereotype of the bad boy to make Scott look like a better choice. Then as Logan evolved he changed to some degree and became more noble, while acknowledging and not hiding or telling a lie about his dark and troubled past. Jean knows all of that and loves him because he's more than a simple mindless berserker...

[Lucyinthesky]

There was a lot more complains about Rogue and Magneto age difference than there has ever been between Jean and Logan, in fact this is the first time I heard something like this. Usually the complains are made because Jean is usually in a relationship with Scott and that´s why having a romantic relationship with Logan doesn´t make her look good. I think they do make a cute pairing.

[Vishop]

There was a lot more complains about Rogue and Magneto age difference than there has ever been between Jean and Logan, in fact this is the first time I heard something like this. Usually the complains are made because Jean is usually in a relationship with Scott and that´s why having a romantic relationship with Logan doesn´t make her look good. I think they do make a cute pairing.

Then you haven't been to Judas's Bleeding Cool before.

[Lucyinthesky]

Then you haven't been to Judas's Bleeding Cool before.

No, I have never been there still it´s not really a main complain for the Jean and Logan relationship.

[Vishop]

No, I have never been there still it´s not really a main complain for the Jean and Logan relationship.

It's not just Judas who makes a blog about this but loads of peoples comment might show you the reception Jean and Logan get from this. It's like Logan shouldn't even have a relationship with anyone even though he has late 30s looks. I am not saying it's the main complaint either. I am not against Rogue and Mags either. It led me to compliment Carey's run even more.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree, lately it seems this has become a problem for those characters, no everyone can be made younger by marvel moving time scale still it´s kind of part of fiction to have all kinds of stories and characters. I like Jean and Logan as well as Rogue and Magneto, they are not my favourite ships but I enjoy them, I think they bring something interesting to the story, not everyone has to share my oppinion and I understand they had their low points but for me it´s kind of unfair to dimiss those relationships on age alone when they live in a world full of super human and inmortal people.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I've seen plenty of Magneto and Rogue supporters here defend that pairing by saying that since he's been de-aged a time or two it no longer has any relevance and they just ignore it-seeming to believe that Logan is like 50 years older than Magneto or something when it's really only like half that, but still they use it against Logan and Jean, Logan gets a lot of flack for having feelings for Jean due to his age, and then there's the whole his being like a father figure to Kitty and Jubilee, some fans misread that and think that he likes young girls or something crazy like that...

Scott fans seem to have no problem wanting him to get paired up with Emma and any number of other women, but to them Jean has to stay single until Scott wants her back...

[whitecrown]

Scott fans seem to have no problem wanting him to get paired up with Emma and any number of other women, but to them Jean has to stay single until Scott wants her back...

Yes, they are the most hypocritical that way and it's toxic masculinity at its finest. Viewing women as a possession or plaything which they can throw away whenever they are done but no one else gets to have her, she still belongs to them even if she resides in a dust bin. I blame the Marvel writers and editors from the 2000s and 2010s for encouraging this mentality based on how they treated Cyclops and lived vicariously through him and his relationship with the fake blonde.

I know Claremont is probably the biggest Jean/Logan shipper but I think Remender wrote maybe the most balanced version of the couple in his UXF run. I really wish he hadn't left the X-Books especially since he planned on giving Jean the spotlight. I could see him pairing up Jean and Logan for real.

[ARkadelphia]

Why are Some folks creeped out about Xavier’s one-panel love for Jean but are okay with Wolverine’s frequent obsession with her. I can think of one valid reason but I’m curious what others will have to say.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Why are Some folks creeped out about Xavier’s one-panel love for Jean but are okay with Wolverine’s frequent obsession with her. I can think of one valid reason but I’m curious what others will have to say.

Honestly, that you have to be told the difference is suspect. Jean and Logan are grown.

Jean was a child at the time of the panel you are talking about. Also, Xavier had power over her as she was his student and ward.

Jesus, Cyke dudes. Take it to the Cyke thread.

[Lucyinthesky]

Honestly, that you have to be told the difference is suspect. Jean and Logan are grown.

Jean was a child at the time of the panel you are talking about. Also, Xavier had power over her as she was his student and ward.

Jesus, Cyke dudes. Take it to the Cyke thread.

Agreed the main difference was that Charles was and is a parental figure for her, he helped her to get out of a coma when she was a child, helped her to train her powers and trained her to be an X-man.

Wolverine and Jean meet as fellows X-men, he didn´t have much of his memories but liked Jean because she makes him remember Rose from his past when he was a child, both Jean and Logan are emotionally equals, the same can´t be said from Charles and Jean.