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  1. #1
    Incredible Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    Default LOSH theory that could reconcile things for past and present Superboys

    What if Jon Kent is simply the first Superboy to join the Legion and Clark joins later when they are a bit more experienced? The Legion as currently depicted doesn't seem to be as far along in their teams development as usually depicted. Who's to say that Superman didn't recognize them because of a mental block from Saturn Girl or something? Or perhaps that was retconned by events in Doomsday Clock?

    What do you all think? Would this work? I really want Clark Kent as Superboy in the Legion. Imagine Jon getting to meet his dad in the future as a younger, more inexperienced and brash kid. Wouldn't that be great?

  2. #2
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Why not? Basically the one thing I think about is how odd it is to actively put Clarkboy back in continuity and then never use his connection when the Legion reboot finally comes around.
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  3. #3
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Well there are two ways of doing this.

    1. Legion of three worlds just got a fourth world. Have the other future legion's exist and just say that classic Legion of Superheroes became an alternate reality once reality had shifted so much but that Clark had joined that version of the team. Thereby establishing the current Legion as Jon's future.

    2. Clark joined the Legion in its very early days before Jon did, and the Legion mind wiped him once they put the young Clark back in the past.
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  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    According to Doomsday Clock Clark being in the Legion is back in continuity, and if I have to put up with the Kents being alive again, Johns can do me this one solid and give me back the Legion to go with it.

    Anyway, I think young Clark joining the Legion after Jon is a viable work around for where we are. Jon's Legion are fairly inexperienced, while Clark's were usually more experienced than him. So it kinda fits, and the idea that the Legion erased Clark's memories has precedent (though I favor a more precise mindwipe that only erases sensitive knowledge and not the whole experience). And the idea ties stuff up in a fun timey wimey knot.
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  5. #5
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Yeah! I don't think clark with legion is back. The parents are back and still no references off clark from legion in legion book. They could still do that like you said. But, it will be relationship in namesake.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    According to Doomsday Clock Clark being in the Legion is back in continuity, and if I have to put up with the Kents being alive again, Johns can do me this one solid and give me back the Legion to go with it.

    Anyway, I think young Clark joining the Legion after Jon is a viable work around for where we are. Jon's Legion are fairly inexperienced, while Clark's were usually more experienced than him. So it kinda fits, and the idea that the Legion erased Clark's memories has precedent (though I favor a more precise mindwipe that only erases sensitive knowledge and not the whole experience). And the idea ties stuff up in a fun timey wimey knot.
    I think Johns wanted to, but with more recent mandates and directions, I think it may have gotten scrapped.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I don't see a problem with there just being multiple different Legions, and Jon gets one and Clark gets one.

    I mean, I do see the problem with that, the problem is that Legion continuity is already a nightmare, but it wouldn't make anything worse; Legion continuity kind of hit a threshold of confusion sometime during the '90s, and I don't think any new complications are "worse". I mean in the New 52, the Legion in the Legion monthly title was different from the one in Action Comics, but by this point, Legion fans are just so used to whatever, you know?

    I will say, I don't really like Bendis' Legion? So I'm not thrilled about the hypothetical idea of unifying it with any of Clark's Legions. The biggest example of something I don't like is probably that Cosmic Boy went from being a character from a world where everyone has powers, but suffering a severe economic depression, to being part of an elite part of his population that gets to have powers. In other words, he went from being a character rooted in poverty to being literally described as one of the 1 percent.

    That's just one example of a thing I don't like about Bendis' Legion. Others include Ultra Boy being the son of a warlord instead of being a street punk, Ultra Boy's new costume being awful, and the fact that my pansexual icon son Element Lad is now drawn to resemble a stoned Bizarro. Many more complaints remain.

    I wouldn't mind Jon just... having a different Legion than Superman.

    It is messy though, I'll grant you that. I just happen to think that the Legion is not going to become less messy at this point.
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  8. #8
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Legion continuity is already a nightmare, but it wouldn't make anything worse
    I just happen to think that the Legion is not going to become less messy at this point.
    I mean, neither of these things are true about the Legion now are they? No. It's been totally rebooted.

    So objectively it would make Legion continuity a confusing mess if you added in more versions of the Legion. Again, right now it's the most straight forward it's been since their creation.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I mean, neither of these things are true about the Legion now are they? No. It's been totally rebooted.

    So objectively it would make Legion continuity a confusing mess if you added in more versions of the Legion. Again, right now it's the most straight forward it's been since their creation.
    Of course it's true. The truth is that reboots don't simplify things, they simply add another version of the franchise for people to keep track of. Think of how meticulously most hardcore Superman fans keep track of the various permutations of Superman. Did the New 52 Superman simplify the franchise, make it more straightforward? No, it didn't. That reboot just added another version of Superman. And Doomsday Clock shows pretty definitively that editorial thinks more and more reboots are going to keep happening forever.

    How many Legion fans are getting started right now, with the new book, who have never read a Legion comic before? Probably more than zero, but I'm willing to bet that far more people picking up Bendis' Legion are fans who know at least one, and probably at least two previous incarnations of the Legion, in some amount of detail. Maybe the readers don't know other versions of the Legion in enough detail to know that making Rokk one of the "one percent" is a travesty, but certainly enough detail that the "new Legion" is a subfolder in their mental file of Legion lore, rather than its entirety.

    I mean something like five versions of the Legion have been published in the last twenty years.

    Reboot

    Threeboot

    Retroboot

    Action Comics

    Bendis

    And just because there's a new reboot doesn't mean the others go away.
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  10. #10
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Of course it's true. The truth is that reboots don't simplify things, they simply add another version of the franchise for people to keep track of.
    That's more of a weird thing that hardcore fans do to themselves to complicate a thing than it is something inherent to the reboot. I mean, I know about Legion, and I've read some of 5YL, but outside of catching some fun nods and inspirations to things in this new Legion, that stuff isn't really in my mind, nor is the book asking me to keep any of that in mind. I'm not confused on or wondering why a thing is because there's nothing outside of my own personal curiosity telling me to look anywhere else besides the book in my hands.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 03-05-2020 at 12:00 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    That's more of a weird thing that hardcore fans do to themselves to complicate a thing than it is something inherent to the reboot. I mean, I know about Legion, and I've read some of 5YL, but outside of catching some fun nods and inspirations to things in this new Legion, that stuff isn't really in my mind, nor is the book asking me to keep any of that in mind. I'm not confused on or wondering why a thing is because there's nothing outside of my own personal curiosity telling me to look anywhere else besides the book in my hands.
    Like I said, how many people do you think are getting into the Legion just now for the first time? Probably not that many. Most people who read comics at all are some level of hardcore fan. Many, maybe even most, fans are entranced by the notion of multiple versions of a thing and seek those discrepancies out of their own accord, even, I suspect, new fans, and most Legion fans especially know the broad strokes of the different versions. I'm not saying everyone will of course, but I think most Legion fans are hardcore, and thus prone to convoluting their own experiences, to some degree, and I think that'll be the case for the new Legion as well.

    Now you've got a definite and absolute point that multiple versions of the Legion where you need to keep track of both can get old pretty easily - I read through the 5YL era and the beginning of Legionnaires, so I know that to be true from personal experience. However, multiple versions of the Legion where you don't need to keep track of both can and has worked in the past. Consider the coexistence of the Threeboot and Retroboot Legions, or the Action Comics version with whatever Legion was around during the New 52. There was no overlap at all, barring "Legion of Three Worlds," and that was pretty much designed for insane continuity-buff fans.

    I'm not saying I think DC will do that to give Clark a separate Legion from Jon in the near future, in fact I think that's pretty unlikely. I'm saying I think it'd probably go okay if they did do that, and given the Legion's especially awkward track record of multiple versions co-existing, it wouldn't shock me if it happened in five or ten years, after the dust has started to settle on Bendis' version a little.
    Last edited by Adekis; 03-05-2020 at 12:21 PM.
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  12. #12
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Like I said, how many people do you think are getting into the Legion just now for the first time?
    And like I said, this is a largely self imposed non-issue you're describing. A newly bought house doesn't become a mess because you know of other identical homes like it that are full of stuff. And again, even if you seek that stuff out on your own, the book has yet to validate those other versions beyond taking inspiration from them, but in no way do they become required reading. So calling Legion continuity as of right now a mess is completely inaccurate.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    And like I said, this is a largely self imposed non-issue you're describing. A newly bought house doesn't become a mess because you know of other identical homes like it that are full of stuff. And again, even if you seek that stuff out on your own, the book has yet to validate those other versions beyond taking inspiration from them, but in no way do they become required reading. So calling Legion continuity as of right now a mess is completely inaccurate.
    Yeah, I suppose you're actually right in the context of just the new book. I can't really let go of the Legion of Three Worlds, which means in my mind, the new book is just, you know, a fourth Legion (or more accurately, something like a sixth or seventh), but within the bounds of the new book itself, there's no real mess beyond my own extreme frustration with the book's changes from those previous versions. It's all internally consistent.

    My frustration comes from the fact that I regard most prior versions of the Legion as having a sort of overarching consistency that I just don't think the Bendis Legion even briefly considers partaking in.

    Sort of like if Clark Kent was suddenly raised by George Washington in mainstream continuity after a new reboot or something, I suppose.
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  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    This is the problem with reboots and fresh continuity. DC can say "it's a fresh start and nothing from before counts" but that doesn't mean we forget what came before, or lose our opinions and biases. DC can tell us that, I dunno, Saturn Girl is a hard rock loving, tattooed biker badass in the new continuity and because its a new continuity nothing contradicts that. But we remember the previous versions where she's not a biker badass, so we'll think of it as being out of character even if the new continuity supports it.

    All we can do is try to judge a new continuity on its own merits. Who knows, maybe if you give biker badass Saturn Girl a try, you might like it more than previous versions. And if not, you can just drop the book.

    *note that the idea of Saturn Girl being a biker badass is just a random example I dreamed up and has no bearing on current or past versions of the character.*
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-06-2020 at 11:23 AM.
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  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I would just rather let this misguided version of the Legion run it coarse and then fade way to the same place as the Threeboot Legion than try and link it up with any of the good versions of the team. Just let the Bendisboot continue on until he get bored and leaves the book and all his fans leave with him and this series get cancelled.

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