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  1. #1
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Default Do modern Marvel writers hate Thor?

    While reading the latter parts of Jason Aaron's run on Thor and his Avengers run, i got struck by the impression that most Marvel writers, starting with Matt Fraction, got really bad at depicting Thor's characterisation and powers. It really hit me with a recent Avenger's issue with theCelestials when they call for help in the Bowels and they make Thor out to be this clueless barbarian who doesn't know what a bowel is. They then say stuff like Guts, Belly, etc before he comes crashing in asking if he was in the right place. To say nothing of his addiction to mead and putting all of his self-Worth in a chunk of uru. His recent position as all father under Cates might change things, but this is clearly the weakest version of an adult Thor I've seen for some time when he wasn't officially depowered by a villain or a macguffin.

    Sure, there are moments like the final battle between old king Thor and Gorr, but his few moments of awesome are overshadowed by many dethroning moments of suck.

    -Getting one-shotted by Immortal Hulk.

    -Barely holding Ghost Rider (Robbie)'s car.

    -Being owned by Ursa Major.

    -Being owned by Namor and his swim posse.

    -Being convinced of being inferior to She-Hulk's strenght.

    -Needing to go berserk to defeat a few Frost Giants, something he never needed before.

    -Being ignorant of Earth's politics to the point of failing to realize that Hydra Cap is evil.

    -Not knowing how to date strong women like She-Hulk despite having being around badass asgardian action girls like Valkirye and Sif.

    -Being shown as less heroic and competent than Jane Foster at every turn.

    He is far removed from the Thor who used Mjolnir in a clever way to get the edge over the Juggernaut, who used Mjolnir to shoot powerful energy blasts reminiscent of the Kamehameha against the celestials and the skymother Majeston Zelia. The Thor who stopped a suicide bomber through dialogue, wisdom and compassion. The Thor who despite being turned into a frog mantained his regal behaviour, his heroic willpower and dramatic speech pattern.

    That's when it hit me that they have lost touch of what Thor character is. The dude is a mythological God, not only his he the son of the God of Wisdom and king of Asgard, he received possibly some of the best education anyone in the galaxy could probably get. He's knows all the languages of the nine realms, trained in nearly every style of swordfighting and unharmed combat, has Superman-like strenght, was disguised as a skilled medic for years etc. He was educated to be a King. He is not dumb, he is actually far smarter than the average new yorker, honestly I would dare to say that he probably got a better education than even Tony Stark.

    Thor has issues with modern day USA because it's a different culture with different standards. It would be like if Leonardo Da Vinci time travelled to modern day Italy and being both confused and intrigued by how much has changed since his time period. Just because he's out of his homeland and context, doesn't mean he's stupid.

    This brings the cartoon Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes to my mind. In that show, Thor didn't quite get modern Earth's conventions and technology but he was anything but an idiot. He was wise, clever and spoke like a operatic knight in shining armor, and he came off like a pagan god learning about modern Earth and modern people.

    it would be great if they stop writing him as a stupid alcoholic barbarian completely clueless about our world who gets stomped by any character Marvel wants to promote, and more just a man in a foreign land. But i think modern Marvel writers are either indifferent to Thor and his mythos or really hate the character (not on the level of Quasar, Nova and Black Knight though) and keep him around just because he's a Lee/Kirby creation.
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  2. #2
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    the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.

    I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    I don’t think it’s hate...it’s just the almost inevitable outcome of Marvels relentless introduction of more and more characters and the massive powering up of many of them.

    As a Fantastic Four devotee I think Ben Grimm has lost out much more in the “comparative powers” stakes..he was a titan of the early days of Marvel, but I now dread to think how many other characters could easily overpower him.

  4. #4
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I think most of this is just bad marketing and decisions to make Jane Foster and other heroes look good.
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  5. #5
    Webcomic Writer Otto Gruenwald's Avatar
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    It's because Thor's taken as the team powerhouse, so it's easy to generate cheap heat by knocking him down.
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  6. #6
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Some of that is movie synergy. Comic book Thor is starting to take elements from the Chris Helmsworth MCU Thor, which at times makes him a bit more cartoony.

    The other aspect I think is that the bar has been raised in comics a bit. There are a lot more Thor level characters in the MU than there were 20 years ago, so he has more peers.

    But yeah... despite all that you can credibly argue Thor has been watered down a bit.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Gruenwald View Post
    It's because Thor's taken as the team powerhouse, so it's easy to generate cheap heat by knocking him down.
    I'd assume that yes, it's something like this. Thor is taken for granted as one of the strongest guys in the room, so if a writer wants to promote a certain character or make fans' heads explode, knocking him down a peg is an easy way yo do it.

  8. #8
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I don’t think it’s hate...it’s just the almost inevitable outcome of Marvels relentless introduction of more and more characters and the massive powering up of many of them.

    As a Fantastic Four devotee I think Ben Grimm has lost out much more in the “comparative powers” stakes..he was a titan of the early days of Marvel, but I now dread to think how many other characters could easily overpower him.
    That issue could have been solved by having Thor wear his belt of strenght and magic gloves more often to keep up with other characters. Too bad no one remembers about his equipment.
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  9. #9
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.

    I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.
    Fraction started the trend of depicting Thor and Odin as boorish brutes with anger issues and a potty mouth.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.

    I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.
    Fraction's Asgardians were all loud violent tools with the exception of Kid Loki and Volstagg. If anything the portrayal of nearly all the Asgardians as being
    varying degrees of barbaric and mean started with Fraction.

    I mean the 90's Heroes Reborn version of Thor was uncivilized and barbaric (he offered to "sack a town" to prove his worth to the Avengers) I never thought they would
    go back to that well.

    But to be fair, Thoughtful King Thor with or without OdinPower was done by JMS and his predecessors. So maybe this is them not trying to copy the
    very late 9's-early Aughts stuff.

    The problem of cyclical comics storytelling.... nearly everything really has been done before.

  11. #11
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.

    I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.
    And now even when he Is not writing the Thor series anymore, he couldn't help but having Jane being stronger than Thor in her book. Not even Bendis is this petty.

    I don't know why Aaron hates Thor so much
    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 03-17-2020 at 11:14 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    And now even when he Is not writing the Thor series anymore, he couldn't help but having Jane being stronger than Thor in her book. Not even Bendis is this petty.

    I don't know why Aaron hates Thor so much
    eh
    maybe the black stuff made him weaker

  13. #13
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    eh
    maybe the black stuff made him weaker
    But Jane easily shrugged off the black stuff.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    But Jane easily shrugged off the black stuff.
    well it's like cancer, and she's had cancer so it's a more familiar sensation to be able to fight it. Maybe cancer survivors are more resistant. She also took smaller attacks from it, rather than thor just plunging his hammer into the source directly

    and since it appears to have an effect of weakening and draining your life force away, that is an explanation for how she can win the physical fight atleast

    this is just no-prizing it, until the issue comes out and maybe this is explained
    Last edited by Ichijinijisanji; 03-17-2020 at 02:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    And now even when he Is not writing the Thor series anymore, he couldn't help but having Jane being stronger than Thor in her book. Not even Bendis is this petty.

    I don't know why Aaron hates Thor so much
    Have you seen Valkyrie's sales? He rode on the back of 90s style stunt writing and now he is (finally) realizing that what made Foster popular was the hammer. His run will be mentioned in the same breath as The Clone Saga, Emerald Twilight, The Death Of Superman, That story that resulted in Tony Stark being turned into a teenager lol and Knighfall in the "Hey, remember when..." dustbin
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