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  1. #1
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Default Do modern Marvel writers hate Thor?

    While reading the latter parts of Jason Aaron's run on Thor and his Avengers run, i got struck by the impression that most Marvel writers, starting with Matt Fraction, got really bad at depicting Thor's characterisation and powers. It really hit me with a recent Avenger's issue with theCelestials when they call for help in the Bowels and they make Thor out to be this clueless barbarian who doesn't know what a bowel is. They then say stuff like Guts, Belly, etc before he comes crashing in asking if he was in the right place. To say nothing of his addiction to mead and putting all of his self-Worth in a chunk of uru. His recent position as all father under Cates might change things, but this is clearly the weakest version of an adult Thor I've seen for some time when he wasn't officially depowered by a villain or a macguffin.

    Sure, there are moments like the final battle between old king Thor and Gorr, but his few moments of awesome are overshadowed by many dethroning moments of suck.

    -Getting one-shotted by Immortal Hulk.

    -Barely holding Ghost Rider (Robbie)'s car.

    -Being owned by Ursa Major.

    -Being owned by Namor and his swim posse.

    -Being convinced of being inferior to She-Hulk's strenght.

    -Needing to go berserk to defeat a few Frost Giants, something he never needed before.

    -Being ignorant of Earth's politics to the point of failing to realize that Hydra Cap is evil.

    -Not knowing how to date strong women like She-Hulk despite having being around badass asgardian action girls like Valkirye and Sif.

    -Being shown as less heroic and competent than Jane Foster at every turn.

    He is far removed from the Thor who used Mjolnir in a clever way to get the edge over the Juggernaut, who used Mjolnir to shoot powerful energy blasts reminiscent of the Kamehameha against the celestials and the skymother Majeston Zelia. The Thor who stopped a suicide bomber through dialogue, wisdom and compassion. The Thor who despite being turned into a frog mantained his regal behaviour, his heroic willpower and dramatic speech pattern.

    That's when it hit me that they have lost touch of what Thor character is. The dude is a mythological God, not only his he the son of the God of Wisdom and king of Asgard, he received possibly some of the best education anyone in the galaxy could probably get. He's knows all the languages of the nine realms, trained in nearly every style of swordfighting and unharmed combat, has Superman-like strenght, was disguised as a skilled medic for years etc. He was educated to be a King. He is not dumb, he is actually far smarter than the average new yorker, honestly I would dare to say that he probably got a better education than even Tony Stark.

    Thor has issues with modern day USA because it's a different culture with different standards. It would be like if Leonardo Da Vinci time travelled to modern day Italy and being both confused and intrigued by how much has changed since his time period. Just because he's out of his homeland and context, doesn't mean he's stupid.

    This brings the cartoon Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes to my mind. In that show, Thor didn't quite get modern Earth's conventions and technology but he was anything but an idiot. He was wise, clever and spoke like a operatic knight in shining armor, and he came off like a pagan god learning about modern Earth and modern people.

    it would be great if they stop writing him as a stupid alcoholic barbarian completely clueless about our world who gets stomped by any character Marvel wants to promote, and more just a man in a foreign land. But i think modern Marvel writers are either indifferent to Thor and his mythos or really hate the character (not on the level of Quasar, Nova and Black Knight though) and keep him around just because he's a Lee/Kirby creation.
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  2. #2
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    the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.

    I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    I don’t think it’s hate...it’s just the almost inevitable outcome of Marvels relentless introduction of more and more characters and the massive powering up of many of them.

    As a Fantastic Four devotee I think Ben Grimm has lost out much more in the “comparative powers” stakes..he was a titan of the early days of Marvel, but I now dread to think how many other characters could easily overpower him.

  4. #4
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I think most of this is just bad marketing and decisions to make Jane Foster and other heroes look good.
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  5. #5
    Webcomic Writer Otto Gruenwald's Avatar
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    It's because Thor's taken as the team powerhouse, so it's easy to generate cheap heat by knocking him down.
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  6. #6
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Some of that is movie synergy. Comic book Thor is starting to take elements from the Chris Helmsworth MCU Thor, which at times makes him a bit more cartoony.

    The other aspect I think is that the bar has been raised in comics a bit. There are a lot more Thor level characters in the MU than there were 20 years ago, so he has more peers.

    But yeah... despite all that you can credibly argue Thor has been watered down a bit.

  7. #7
    Webcomic Writer Otto Gruenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Some of that is movie synergy. Comic book Thor is starting to take elements from the Chris Helmsworth MCU Thor, which at times makes him a bit more cartoony.

    The other aspect I think is that the bar has been raised in comics a bit. There are a lot more Thor level characters in the MU than there were 20 years ago, so he has more peers.

    But yeah... despite all that you can credibly argue Thor has been watered down a bit.
    Yeah. Synergy can be blamed for some of it. MCEU Thor is pretty goofy and slapsticky and some of that is leaking into the comics. I remember when it was was generally agreed that Thor was stronger than Hulk. Now Hulk floors him with one punch.
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  8. #8
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    I think he's also taken a hit because of Marvel's pumping up of Hulk. They used to be rivals, but lately Marvel has decided that Hulk has no rivals. Hulk is now unambiguously the most powerful character in Marvel to have his own comic. Which reduces Thor to just another guy jockeying for second place. Once a comics company decides you aren't in contention for top guy, you lose editorial protection from humiliation, and the result is a lot more severe in practice than it sounds like it would be on paper. There is a huuuuge jump in how guys jockeying for second place are treated in comics versus whoever is consider The Man.

    I don't think he's hated so much as he's just another guy jockeying for second place, with all the surprisingly massive effects this has editorially in how a character is treated.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Gruenwald View Post
    Yeah. Synergy can be blamed for some of it. MCEU Thor is pretty goofy and slapsticky and some of that is leaking into the comics. I remember when it was was generally agreed that Thor was stronger than Hulk. Now Hulk floors him with one punch.
    if synergy were the thing, then thor has been stronger than the hulk since ragnarok

    even then in physical strength since WWH got over hulk is hailed as the strongest
    thor's considered to eke it out with his most mystical powers, but he barely uses them anyway

  10. #10
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    They used to be rivals, but lately Marvel has decided that Hulk has no rivals.
    Not true.
    Hulk is not the strongest and the not the most powerful in marvel.
    Hulk is now unambiguously the most powerful character in Marvel to have his own comic.
    Thor has his own comic and current thor is more powerful then hulk.
    Last edited by mace11; 03-03-2020 at 07:23 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post
    Not true.

    Thor has his own comic and current thor is more powerful then hulk.
    So they've faced off recently and Thor has beaten Hulk?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    So they've faced off recently and Thor has beaten Hulk?
    No but clearly you could tell thor is more powerful then hulk here for example.
    Cosmic King Thor vs Beta Ray Bill and Galactus
    Last edited by mace11; 03-03-2020 at 07:31 AM.

  13. #13
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    if synergy were the thing, then thor has been stronger than the hulk since ragnarok

    even then in physical strength since WWH got over hulk is hailed as the strongest
    thor's considered to eke it out with his most mystical powers, but he barely uses them anyway
    Yeah, writers love to ignore that Thor can do more than just throwing lightning bolts at people.

    While MCU is a goofball fratboy, the one good thing about Ragnarok is showing that he isn't ineffectual when he loses Mjolnir.

    Of course, that Waititi guy may pull a Aaron on us and make Jane 100x more awesome and clever than Thor.
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  14. #14
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    This is a new video and i am it watching now to hear what this guy has to say.
    How Powerful is Cosmic King Thor ? Stronger than Odin.
    Last edited by mace11; 03-03-2020 at 07:39 AM.

  15. #15
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post
    No but clearly you could tell thor is more powerful then hulk here.
    Cosmic King Thor vs Beta Ray Bill and Galactus
    It's kind of undermined by Thor being empowered by Power Cosmic and the Odinforce being nonexistent these days.
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