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  1. #76
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Yeah, Hemsworth Thor is light years away from 'My god has a hammer' or 'Ultron, we would have words with thee.' And I do think movie synergy is indeed part of it. The same sort of thing that has Tony Stark being a snark machine, on par with Spider-Man (or comic-book Hawkeye used to be), or that has resulted in the same Scott Lang who *beat up Dr. Doom with science!*, turning into a lovable screwup who fails upward (humorously) at just about everything like MCU Scott.

    Which makes me wonder. Tony Stark being such a quippy fellow turned MCU Hawkeye into a deadly dull waste of celluloid, since Tony had pretty much already stolen his niche. Since MCU Thor has similarly drank Hercules Falstaffian buffoon milkshake all up, what sort of tremendous ponderous bore is MCU Hercules going to be?
    I think the Guradians of the Galaxy got it worse in that regard. Especially Star-Lord and Drax the Destroyer. Bendis run on GOTG was a five year long torture.
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  2. #77
    Amazing Member thjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    Thor needs to be shown as clever and noble more than beating one hero after another senselessly.
    Super agree with this. It was Thor's mischaracterization by Fraction and Aaron that kept me away from Thor comics for years, not the portrayal of his power level in relation to others in the Marvel universe.

  3. #78
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Narratively, it makes a certain amount of sense that a threat that can challenge Thor *and a team* shouldn't be one that Thor could solo on his own, since that means the rest of the team is just a pointless bit of wasted ink on the page.

    Obviously, not every encounter the team faces needs to be a threat that can tank Thor, but, again, narratively, we readers don't need to spend $4.95 on a story in which the team faces down the Circus of Crime or whatever, and the heavy hitters like Thor are sitting around bored because they so terribly outclass the day's 'challenge.' (Logically, those encounters would happen, but we don't get to see them, 'cause they are less thrilling heroic adventures and more house-cleaning or the comic book equivalent of 'grinding for XP' or 'clearing out the old gray quests in the quest log.')

    (That said, like, once a year or so, a story like that could be fun, where the team just mows through some villain group or army of mooks way below their pay grade, and we get to revel in them being pretty much unstoppable for an issue.)

    I do agree that it seems to happen far too much, and, particularly, it invariably seems to be a direct challenge on the strongest characters strongest attribute. Thor can be curbstomped by a good mentalist (like Moondragon) with ease. And yet, the new challenge of the day has to show off his uberness by matching him in a fist-fight, which is annoying, since a well-written story should have some 'niche protection' built in. If a character has 'the strongest' or 'the smartest' or 'the fastest' as their one big thing, every single freaking challenge they face shouldn't be someone that has their best power +1.

    That's lame design. Don't make someone *stronger* than Thor. Recognize that his most legendary arch-nemesis is *Loki* who abso-freaking-lutely will never beat him in an arm-wrestling match. (Save by some epic cheating!) Come at him sideways, targetting one of the many stats at which he is *not* godlike powerful.

    IMO, they need to get rid of the 'Worf Effect' by not having every new challenge be 'your best stat +1.'

    I kind of grown when I see a threat to Thor be some yob with an even more powerful magic weapon, like Allblack the Necro-sword or whatever the heck emo thing it's called. Yuk. That's like the Abomination of Thor villains. (Oh, it's an evil Hulk, slightly bigger, greener and uglier! How creative... /s)
    You just reminded me of that PlagueofGripes video deconstructing Power Levels and lack of clever strategies in Dragonball.

    Last edited by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree; 03-13-2020 at 03:25 AM.
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  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    That's because Greg Pak happened. His run on Hulk was good for giving Bruce and the green guy some genuine character development but maaaan was he fixated on making Hulk the most badass invincible character ever. And because Greg Pak was successful, Hulk has never looked back (getting pwned by Zeus aside).
    The implication I get from this is that fan favorite critically acclaimed Hulk storylines starring the Hulk, are problematic because they might make Thor look bad by comparison.

    I sympathize with Thor fans but going around trying to put caps on other characters so they don't outshine Thor isn't going to fly well with anybody.

  5. #80
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    The implication I get from this is that fan favorite critically acclaimed Hulk storylines starring the Hulk, are problematic because they might make Thor look bad by comparison.

    I sympathize with Thor fans but going around trying to put caps on other characters so they don't outshine Thor isn't going to fly well with anybody.
    I wasn't putting caps. I like Planet Hulk as much as the next guy but i don't recall Hulk being this uber powerful before Greg Pak.
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  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    I wasn't putting caps. I like Planet Hulk as much as the next guy but i don't recall Hulk being this uber powerful before Greg Pak.
    Holding up a mountain in his weakest incarnation, punching through time, shattering an asteroid twice the size of earth with a punch, wrestling a blackhole, shaking worlds, overpowering worlds being whipped at him, having 90% of his mass repelled off only to keep coming, cracking Onslaughts Armor having the Beyonder straight up call the Hulk's potential limitless. Etc etc.

    Even the whole being truly immortal thing dates back to PAD.

    Not trying to derail the thread, but the whole "Thor was always clearly stronger than Hulk before X" is largely a myth.

    There might have been a period back before the Savage Hulk was established where Hulk was weaker, but that was over by the early 70s at the very latest.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    I’m (pretty) sure “hate” is the wrong word for how any of the recent writers have regarded Thor.

    I would argue something like “disinterest” is much closer to the mark...that several have not minded writing Thor (and several associated characters) with completely different personalities to those established by earlier cannon.

    Aaron in particular seemed to want to write a particular story (about toxic masculinity and the worthlessness of gods and the road to redemption), was assigned the Thor gig, and just went ahead and told his preferred story, even though earlier Thor didn’t seem a good fit for lead role.
    Last edited by JackDaw; 03-10-2020 at 10:57 AM.

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    Holding up a mountain in his weakest incarnation, punching through time, shattering an asteroid twice the size of earth with a punch, wrestling a blackhole, shaking worlds, overpowering worlds being whipped at him, having 90% of his mass repelled off only to keep coming, cracking Onslaughts Armor having the Beyonder straight up call the Hulk's potential limitless. Etc etc.

    Even the whole being truly immortal thing dates back to PAD.

    Not trying to derail the thread, but the whole "Thor was always clearly stronger than Hulk before X" is largely a myth.

    There might have been a period back before the Savage Hulk was established where Hulk was weaker, but that was over by the early 70s at the very latest.
    Couldn't have said it better.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    The Eternals are genetically engineered demigods with mystical powers. They are more than your average human aliens.
    They do NOT have mystical powers though. Any powers they have are a result of Kronos' cosmic experiment no Celestial genetic engineering. The Eternals who went to Uranus and Titan before that accident do not have any powers whatsoever, they are basically immortal peak humans. Its why the average Titanian Eternal sired by Mentor is less powerful than him, because they only have half of that cosmic power heritage.

  10. #85
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    They do NOT have mystical powers though. Any powers they have are a result of Kronos' cosmic experiment no Celestial genetic engineering. The Eternals who went to Uranus and Titan before that accident do not have any powers whatsoever, they are basically immortal peak humans. Its why the average Titanian Eternal sired by Mentor is less powerful than him, because they only have half of that cosmic power heritage.
    Even then they shouldn't be written like average joes from american suburbs.
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  11. #86
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I’m (pretty) sure “hate” is the wrong word for how any of the recent writers have regarded Thor.

    I would argue something like “disinterest” is much closer to the mark...that several have not minded writing Thor (and several associated characters) with completely different personalities to those established by earlier cannon.

    Aaron in particular seemed to want to write a particular story (about toxic masculinity and the worthlessness of gods and the road to redemption), was assigned the Thor gig, and just went ahead and told his preferred story, even though earlier Thor didn’t seem a good fit for lead role.
    I think Aaron has daddy issues that he's channeling through comics. Wolverine became suddenly concerned with his father being a jerk in Aaron's run. Odin has been damaged beyond repair and now Howard Stark, Iron Man's dad is a satanist and a minion of Mephisto.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.

    I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.
    Fraction's Asgardians were all loud violent tools with the exception of Kid Loki and Volstagg. If anything the portrayal of nearly all the Asgardians as being
    varying degrees of barbaric and mean started with Fraction.

    I mean the 90's Heroes Reborn version of Thor was uncivilized and barbaric (he offered to "sack a town" to prove his worth to the Avengers) I never thought they would
    go back to that well.

    But to be fair, Thoughtful King Thor with or without OdinPower was done by JMS and his predecessors. So maybe this is them not trying to copy the
    very late 9's-early Aughts stuff.

    The problem of cyclical comics storytelling.... nearly everything really has been done before.

  13. #88
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    Super agree with this. It was Thor's mischaracterization by Fraction and Aaron that kept me away from Thor comics for years, not the portrayal of his power level in relation to others in the Marvel universe.
    Definitely agree on Fraction and Aaron's poor characterisation of Thor. Both writers started the trend of Thor being written as an arrogant, pompous braggart rather than the stoic and noble protector Thor was portrayed as prior to these two writers. That portrayal kept me away from Thor comics along with Jane taking over as Thor.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    They still writing him as a thuggish meathead who barely uses his powers.
    WHAT???!!

    Thor just locked off Two of Galactus's Fingers and popped a whole in his leg. Then went blow for blow with Bill. He's not written as a Meathead.

    Honestly,from what i'm looking at Thor seems to be doing VERY WELL.
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  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    One billion percent sure! It's so popular that Marvel has to limit how many it can sell because releasing too many wouldn't be fair to the other comics Marvel puts out. Once you read it you have no desire to read the other comics put out that month.

    It's. Just. That. Good.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post


    Are you sure his Valkyrie is really popular?
    Really? Valkyrie is that Popular? mmmmm I don't think so. I'd like to know WHO is really talking about it.

    I just realized that she even had a book when I looked at the Previewsworld.com
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