Do modern Marvel writers hate Thor?

[Panic]

That's FAR above where he belongs and random power feats (especially ones that everyone knows won't last without being retconned, but hey that's happened to Galactus numerous times in the past few years because continuity just doesn't matter anymore) in no way equate with proper treatment of characters as characters. Cates' Thor is an absolute prick and far from the hero he's been for the vast majority of his 50+ years as a character in Marvel. I'd take my favorite character being written in character any day over them destroying planets or beating someone well above their pay grade or whatnot.

Yes, exactly!

[JudicatorPrime]

I'd take my favorite character being written in character any day over them destroying planets or beating someone well above their pay grade or whatnot.

And yet how many times has Thor beaten someone above his "pay grade"? Quite a few times, I imagine. I mean enough times that when he does it, people don't roll their eyes like they would if it was Squirrel Girl or someone like that.

[Cronus]

And yet how many times has Thor beaten someone above his "pay grade"? Quite a few times, I imagine. I mean enough times that when he does it, people don't roll their eyes like they would if it was Squirrel Girl or someone like that.

Who did you have in mind as far as being above Thors pay grade?

[XPac]

And yet how many times has Thor beaten someone above his "pay grade"? Quite a few times, I imagine. I mean enough times that when he does it, people don't roll their eyes like they would if it was Squirrel Girl or someone like that.

Comics have the any given Sunday rule ... in THEORY anyone can beat anyone else. It's just a matter of execution.

Heroes do make it a career out of beating characters above their paygrade. Overcoming insurmountable odds are their thing. BUT that's not exactly a free pass for any random street level vigilantte who normally spends their time knocking out bank robbers to beat down Celestials with a tire iron. Even within the confines of a fictional comic book there are certain limits and rules a writer theoretically should follow... and if they don't follow those rules, you're get some eye rolling.

THor is a VERY powerful character... in the least it's easier to buy him beating a Galactus than say Spider-Man. But even he should be badly outclassed unless the circumstances somehow level the playing field. If that's done in a way readers can buy, it can be a non issue. BUT there are times writers frankly suck at this sort of thing, and readers will cry foul. That can apply just as easily to Thor as anyone else.

[phantom1592]

I haven't read the issues myself... but Doesn't Thor currently have Mjolnir, OdinForce, AND Power Cosmic?


Is ANYTHING out of his Paygrade at this point? Odin alone used to be one of the most powerful creatures in existence? Odinforce + Power Cosmic?? He should be able to blow away anything he wants to at this point.


Which honestly is a whole other issue. Characters can only be so interesting once they're all powerful. The constant need to one up whatever challenge the last writer came up with can get dull pretty quick.

[HipHopAvenger]

I haven't read the issues myself... but Doesn't Thor currently have Mjolnir, OdinForce, AND Power Cosmic?


Is ANYTHING out of his Paygrade at this point? Odin alone used to be one of the most powerful creatures in existence? Odinforce + Power Cosmic?? He should be able to blow away anything he wants to at this point.


Which honestly is a whole other issue. Characters can only be so interesting once they're all powerful. The constant need to one up whatever challenge the last writer came up with can get dull pretty quick.

Well after Empyre it looks like he has the Gaeaforce too

[Ichijinijisanji]

That's FAR above where he belongs and random power feats (especially ones that everyone knows won't last without being retconned, but hey that's happened to Galactus numerous times in the past few years because continuity just doesn't matter anymore) in no way equate with proper treatment of characters as characters. Cates' Thor is an absolute prick and far from the hero he's been for the vast majority of his 50+ years as a character in Marvel. I'd take my favorite character being written in character any day over them destroying planets or beating someone well above their pay grade or whatnot.

even then her characterization in the Avengers book is terrible so I can't even enjoy it

Same thoughts.

[JudicatorPrime]

I haven't read the issues myself... but Doesn't Thor currently have Mjolnir, OdinForce, AND Power Cosmic?


Is ANYTHING out of his Paygrade at this point? Odin alone used to be one of the most powerful creatures in existence? Odinforce + Power Cosmic?? He should be able to blow away anything he wants to at this point.


Which honestly is a whole other issue. Characters can only be so interesting once they're all powerful. The constant need to one up whatever challenge the last writer came up with can get dull pretty quick.

I like OP characters, but as with Hulk, Thanos, and Doctor Doom, I've already reached my limit on Thor obtaining nigh-omnipotence/absolute power in any form. He's powerful enough just being Thor. But I guess Marvel wants its own Superman iterations -- Superboy Prime, Superman 1M, and on and on. So we get OdinForce-GaeaForce-Power Cosmic-Thor. If he devolves into Rune King-Berserker-OdinForce-GaeaForce-Power Cosmic-SurterForce-UltraBeyonderForce Thor in the next issue, I'm gonna lose it.

[XPac]

I like OP characters, but as with Hulk, Thanos, and Doctor Doom, I've already reached my limit on Thor obtaining nigh-omnipotence/absolute power in any form. He's powerful enough just being Thor. But I guess Marvel wants its own Superman iterations -- Superboy Prime, Superman 1M, and on and on. So we get OdinForce-GaeaForce-Power Cosmic-Thor. If he devolves into Rune King-Berserker-OdinForce-GaeaForce-Power Cosmic-SurterForce-UltraBeyonderForce Thor in the next issue, I'm gonna lose it.

Because he's fighting Galactus, he needs the power up. So it sort of makes sense.

Though I'm assuming he's not indefinately keeping these power levels. That's a problem when he's fighting vampires or Moon Knight over in Avengers.

[JudicatorPrime]

Because he's fighting Galactus, he needs the power up. So it sort of makes sense.

Though I'm assuming he's not indefinately keeping these power levels. That's a problem when he's fighting vampires or Moon Knight over in Avengers.

Of course he won't keep them forever. Just when he needs it, which is more often than not. How convenient. Like I said, some characters get the nigh-omnipotent treatment frequently enough that threads like these are pointless. The expectation that Thor is supremely powerful is now deeply rooted in readers' expectations. It's part and parcel to Thor's mythos now. Anything contrary to this becomes the unacceptable deviation, not the norm. Oh, sure, Thor might take his knocks one day out of the week, but the other six days??? Oh, my word, it's so good to be the God of Thunder, baby!

[XPac]

Of course he won't keep them forever. Just when he needs it, which is more often than not. How convenient. Like I said, some characters get the nigh-omnipotent treatment frequently enough that threads like these are pointless. The expectation that Thor is supremely powerful is now deeply rooted in readers' expectations. It's part and parcel to Thor's mythos now. Anything contrary to this becomes the unacceptable deviation, not the norm. Oh, sure, Thor might take his knocks one day out of the week, but the other six days??? Oh, my word, it's so good to be the God of Thunder, baby!

I think it balances out.

Ask 10 posters about Thor and half will complain that he's being jobbed out (see the Moon Knight fight) while the other half are complaining about him owning Galactus. Really between Aaron and Cates, it's almost not surprising that we're getting such a mixed reaction. He's sort of all over the place.

Though he most is and should be top tier of the hero community. He is Thor... he's the go-to heavy hitter of the Avengers. That should mean something.

[JudicatorPrime]

He is Thor... he's the go-to heavy hitter of the Avengers. That should mean something.

Thor is a franchise character who has privileged and protected status. That's all that it means. And that will continue to be the case, despite a changing, growing readership that expects more than 1950s sensibilities in the hierarchy of any fictional universe. A shame, really.

[Panic]

I really don't see what you're seeing. Thor has been out of favour with the Marvel writers for at least a decade now - he's been trashed, humiliated, and portrayed as this unsophisticated thug. Sure, Cates is giving him these weird temporary power-ups that no one asked for, but he said he sees him as a jerk, and he tends to write him that way. And Aaron continues to trash him in Avengers. I think Marvel have been experimenting with the idea of taking OG Thor off the board and replacing him with someone less threatening to their vision of the status quo, and I think this will continue for the next few years. The idea that Thor is in some sort of privileged, protected state in the current Marvel hierarchy is just not true at all, as far as I can see.

[XPac]

I really don't see what you're seeing. Thor has been out of favour with the Marvel writers for at least a decade now - he's been trashed, humiliated, and portrayed as this unsophisticated thug. Sure, Cates is giving him these weird temporary power-ups that no one asked for, but he said he sees him as a jerk, and he tends to write him that way. And Aaron continues to trash him in Avengers. I think Marvel have been experimenting with the idea of taking OG Thor off the board and replacing him with someone less threatening to their vision of the status quo, and I think this will continue for the next few years. The idea that Thor is in some sort of privileged, protected state in the current Marvel hierarchy is just not true at all, as far as I can see.

Having "privileged" status in marvel more than anything just means they use you a lot. Marvel will still mess with you.

All the top tier characters in marvel from Cap to Spiderman to Iron Man have been killed or empowered or disgraced multiple times in the last few decades. Being a top character doesn't offer you any protection in that regard. If fact you can make a descent arguement those characters get messed with the most ... but they get their share of good showings to balance it out.

[Panic]

There is a difference with having hurdles placed in front of a hero for them to navigate - those are good because they give the hero a chance to show WHY they are a hero. So yes, Captain America will lose his super-soldier serum etc... but in so doing he will demonstrate that he doesn't need ss-enhanced muscle/his shield/his youth to be a hero; in fact he will demonstrate just how great a hero he is by being deprived of them. And that's how it's supposed to work. It's certainly how it works for Cap, because he represents America and the writers work very hard to maintain, or indeed improve, his position and status. Thor, on the other hand, loses Mjolnir, and rather showing how great he is without it, we see the opposite. We see him sulk, we see him incompetent, we see him a jerk, and we see that others can be Thor, not just as well as he can, but actually better. This isn't just Thor, this happens to a number of heroes current Marvel writers have no fondness for. Cap is totally protected from long-term harm, though - it's just that they're beginning to sweat coming up with headline-grabbing situations to throw at him that no one has done before.