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  1. #196
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    I still have no idea what this is. Is Cassandra cain going in to the ether again?

  2. #197
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Batman and the Outsiders doesn't look like it's wrapping up any time soon, so I'd say no.
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  3. #198
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    The plethora of events is something I've been dreading with this whole generational aspect of the DCU. There are upsides to be sure, but all I'm thinking of is how we will have a Batman for every era and an event for them to star in. Ugh.
    Yeah. I mean, the good thing would be that a G3 Event probably won't impact the books we're reading that aren't set in G3. So if a big Trigon Event upends, I dunno, the Titans and Nightwing books, at least it shouldn't impact Action and Justice League (assuming they're set in different generations). So we won't be hit over the head with as many tie-ins (like Blackest Night). And if we want to ignore the Event, we're only skipping a few titles instead of our whole pull list.

    Maybe. We'll see what we get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    I still have no idea what this is. Is Cassandra cain going in to the ether again?
    You mean you don't know what 5G is? Neither do we.

    There's a big timeline, starting in the late 30's/early 40's and going up to today, with all the major events and stories and characters worked in somewhere. What we were shown (last year) wasn't a finished product, but it's an attempt to say "everything happened." Just maybe not the way we remember it.

    We know Wonder Woman was the first hero in this new history, and we've had a few other small hints and teasers. Beyond that? We don't really know what it is. Rumors claimed that the entire publishing line would switch to 5G; where all the classic heroes are replaced (Superman's son becomes Superman, etc) and the classic heroes would get miniseries out of the Black Label imprint. But that was just rumor. Then Didio was fired, and plans are changing. But we don't know if these are big changes or minor adjustments. Supposedly AT&T is still backing 5G and wants it to happen. But we don't really know anything other than there's a new, decades long timeline, Wonder Woman is the first hero, and....that's about it.

    Maybe DC will split it's line across generations, maybe they won't. Between Didio leaving and this pandemic, basically everything is up in the air.
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-24-2020 at 01:12 PM.
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  4. #199
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Wasn't it also established in the timeline that reboots are actually a part of the whole thing, so there will be a Bruce Wayne in G2-4 and he'll be generally the same age? I think Dick is a kid in G2 and goes Nightwing around G3, but isn't G2-4 spanning nearly 30 years if not more? Must be since G1 seems to be WWII and it's direct aftermath.

    I still think a sliding timescale of "don't think too hard about it" works best when trying to weld 80 years of continuous publication together.

  5. #200
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I still think a sliding timescale of "don't think too hard about it" works best when trying to weld 80 years of continuous publication together.
    I agree, but I think in that case, tying to real-world events (like WWII) is a mistake because everyone knows how long ago that was and time is going to keep passing in the real world, making it hard to keep characters in the ever-present. It's why Dinah Dinah's daughter was just kicking the can down the road.

    Now, whether this puts the "present" (beginning of G5) in the 1990s, specifically 1998, since back-to-back-timelines for G1-G4 add up to 60 years, I don't know. I heard it speculated, I heard it was confirmed in Bendis twitter art in Superman/Action Comics (quit reading a while ago). But it seems a very strange decision to me, and the label said 1938-2020.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-24-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  6. #201
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    WWII is the one I would allow because the JSA is so strongly tied to it along with the boom of the genre itself. They can have one generational touchstone and get by with some sliding timescale like how Captain America just sleeps a little longer each time we retell his origin. Others, like Iron Man, just update to the nearest conflict or event to explain his damaged heart and that seems to work fine.

    Just put the JSA in some limbo dimension and have them return 5-10 years ago. The only real issue there would be, at most, spouses but really only Joan is ever addressed and maybe she came with Jay.

    The Knights may be a problem in that capacity too, but I'm also fine with Ted having retired and gotten old with Jack now being a dad in his 40s or so.

    It's when they try and populate the time between the touchstone and present that the headaches happen. If you put some buffer event (the aforementioned Iced Americano), you can have the one indulgence that has proven to work.

  7. #202
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    You know what I loved from rewatching Batman the brave and the bold was that when the JSA showed up it was always brought up that they mentored and trained Batman who they had a good rapport with. I’d kind of like it if from 5G or whatever happens stuff like that kind of returns. I guess it was also in Young Justice.

    That the JSA were first, helped train members of the Justice League who helped raise up the Teen Titans who became Titans then came the Young Justice generation and now we are in...the Damian, Jon, and I guess now Andy(aquaman’s baby girl) generation?
    Last edited by sifighter; 03-24-2020 at 03:41 PM.
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  8. #203
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    You know what I loved from rewatching Batman the brave and the bold was that when the JSA showed up it was always brought up that they mentored and trained Batman who they had a good report with. I’d kind of like it if from 5G or whatever happens stuff like that kind of returns. I guess it was also in Young Justice.
    I'm still a fan of Superman-first. This demotes him (and Ollie and Bruce and Arthur) to not having been the ones that forged the trail (Diana's being put there, though I don't know how you feel about it). And of the JSA not being part of the same world as the JLA. This is mostly to benefit Hal, Ray, and especially Barry. I mean, two of the three end up looking like they ripped off the codenames of prior heroes without consent. They weren't meant to be part of the same world as their same-name predecessors when created, and I think they work better without being so. I admit I care more about them than the JSA, though I don't think the JSA operating in the same world as them at the same time really serves them well, either.

    WWII is the one I would allow because the JSA is so strongly tied to it along with the boom of the genre itself. They can have one generational touchstone and get by with some sliding timescale like how Captain America just sleeps a little longer each time we retell his origin.
    I think that the individual members of the JSA weren't necessarily so tied to WWII when they were originally written (not all at least - I mean Flash and Hawkman and Dinah, who I read only the earliest stuff with, which at least illustrates the first two had stories before war stories). Team's a bit different there, from what I understand, but I've read some of the original of solo stories, and they weren't. Diana was moreso than some (and I find that a detriment for her character, btw). Heck, Dinah wasn't even invented until after the war. Even when they were appearing in the earlier 1970s, they were at least sometimes timeslid (Larry born in 1939, according to gravestone).

    I think if they are going to to tied to WWII, they should be kept in a world where time doesn't pass 1970. Yes, Cap just sleeps longer. But that's the point - he sleeps, and there's no life between. No spouse, no kids. Not alive to see see each generation of lovers or children die. Easier sell with one person than many, but even then the important part is that he was essentially "dead" in interim. He only has to bear the loss of everyone once. If they are conscious and non-or-slowly-aging, they have to several times (moreso as more time passes) and face that they're going to keep doing so forever.

    Also, I very much like going real-world-relative-timeline with Dick Grayson having more experience superheroing than Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, or even Diana. I like that Dick and Roy have been around so long. That they were among the first.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-24-2020 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #204
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    You know what I loved from rewatching Batman the brave and the bold was that when the JSA showed up it was always brought up that they mentored and trained Batman who they had a good rapport with. I’d kind of like it if from 5G or whatever happens stuff like that kind of returns. I guess it was also in Young Justice.
    I think Wildcat training Bruce was also canon Post-Crisis, and Alan Scott was a hero to him.

  10. #205
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Wasn't it also established in the timeline that reboots are actually a part of the whole thing, so there will be a Bruce Wayne in G2-4 and he'll be generally the same age? I think Dick is a kid in G2 and goes Nightwing around G3, but isn't G2-4 spanning nearly 30 years if not more? Must be since G1 seems to be WWII and it's direct aftermath.

    I still think a sliding timescale of "don't think too hard about it" works best when trying to weld 80 years of continuous publication together.
    I'm not sure; I didn't pay much attention to the 5G rumors at first. But I *think* that's the Doomsday Clock/metaverse thing.

    If I got it right, and I very well might not, Clock established that each reboot creates a new universe that picks up from that year but restarts the heroic age. So in that, you'd be correct. Batman would be 20-25-ish or whatever in 1940, then in 1960 (or whenever) a reboot hits and a new universe is created where Batman debuts in 1960, but is around 20-25 years old. So each Crisis reboot de-ages everyone back to their starting point but the year doesn't change.

    But I think the 5G timeline is actually supposed to be a single, uninterrupted line. Which is probably why Clark and Bruce don't appear until the Silver Age/generation 2. And I'm told by people who have put far more thought into this than I have that the DCU is about twenty years behind us; it's 2020 here, but in the DCU it's only around the year 1999-2000.

    So if Batman debuted in the Silver Age/generation 2, somewhere around 1960 or so, and he retires in 2000/generation 5, he'd go from roughly 20-25 years old at his debut to 60-65 when he retires in 5G. It's a little crazy to imagine Batman still kicking ass at age 60, but there's four factors worth considering. One, we've got Tom Brady winning Super Bowls at age 40, so Bruce kicking ass up to and beyond that age isn't so crazy by DCU standards. Two, we've got guys like Wildcat who've already done it. Three, we've got a million things like Lazarus Pits to help keep Bruce going. And four, supposedly Kingdom Come (published in 99) is a big influence on this timeline so Bruce may have started using an exo-suit to help make up the difference.

    So if all of that is right, it's a 60 year timeline instead of a 80+ year timeline, and most of the heroes don't appear until the Silver Age, so their careers "only" run about 40 years from debut to retirement.

    But whether all of that is even half true? Who the f*ck knows at this point?
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  11. #206
    Amazing Member thefinalguy's Avatar
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    Polarizing idea but what if a second wave of JSA'ers debut decades later apart of Gen 2?

    Push whatever original members need to be there (or can be there due to slowed aging ex. Alan Scott, Jay Garrick) and combine them with members that have connections to current heroes. Ex. Wildcat (can still train Batman), Dinah Drake (doesn't make Dinah Lance too old), Stripsey (Courtney Whitmore's stepfather), Liberty Belle and Johnny Quick (Jesse Quick's parents).

    Generations span 20 ish years so the start of the new JSA around the early 80s and then have it end with the introductions of Batman, Superman, etc. in the early 2000s. (Not expecting hard dates but for a visual).

    Gen 3 starts with Dick Grayson as a young Robin, around 11, and ends with the introduction of Damian Wayne. Gen 4 (current-gen) is the past few years since Damian is currently 13.

    I'm not expecting the hard dates to play a part but that feels like a decent way of keeping everything intact without stretching the ages of everyone too much. I'm not sure if most fans would want the JSA split up like that but certain members existing further in the past poses more problems in the longterm.

  12. #207
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    WWII is the one I would allow because the JSA is so strongly tied to it along with the boom of the genre itself. They can have one generational touchstone and get by with some sliding timescale like how Captain America just sleeps a little longer each time we retell his origin. Others, like Iron Man, just update to the nearest conflict or event to explain his damaged heart and that seems to work fine.

    Just put the JSA in some limbo dimension and have them return 5-10 years ago. The only real issue there would be, at most, spouses but really only Joan is ever addressed and maybe she came with Jay.

    The Knights may be a problem in that capacity too, but I'm also fine with Ted having retired and gotten old with Jack now being a dad in his 40s or so.

    It's when they try and populate the time between the touchstone and present that the headaches happen. If you put some buffer event (the aforementioned Iced Americano), you can have the one indulgence that has proven to work.
    Well even before CoIE Superman, Batman, WW, and the rest of the Golden Age heroes of Earth 2 had things like Ian Karkull/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Karkull to keep all of them relatively young. Add all the time that went by while the Golden Age Heroes all spent fighting in Ragnarok/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k after CoIE and just keep moving/sliding the time the Golden Age Heroes are all released from Ragnarok to a more modern date every 5 to 10 years and that is more than enough of an explanation as to why the JSA are all still relatively young enough to still be active even though they started near the end of the Depression/the US finally involving themselves in WWII after the attack on Pearl Harbor
    Last edited by docmidnite; 03-24-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  13. #208
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmidnite View Post
    Well even before CoIE Superman, Batman, WW, and the rest of the Golden Age heroes of Earth 2 had things like Ian Karkull/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Karkull to keep all of them relatively young. Add all the time that went by while the Golden Age Heroes all spent fighting in Ragnarok/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar%C3%B6k after CoIE and just keep moving/sliding the time the Golden Age Heroes are all released from Ragnarok to a more modern date every 5 to 10 years and that is more than enough of an explanation as to why the JSA are all still relatively young enough to still be active even though they started near the end of the Depression/the US finally involving themselves in WWII after the attack on Pearl Harbor
    Yeah and that was good enough for me when I read it then. It's strange. We've got dark mutliverses but it's someone being alive for 100 years that DC thinks is going to stymie fans.

  14. #209
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    Comics really might not exist in a few years they should give up on this

  15. #210
    Mighty Member LP22's Avatar
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    In today's Legion of super heroes there's a hint towards G5 with Jon that's all I'll say.

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