Generation Five (or 5G) No Longer Line Wide Relaunch

[SanityOrMadness]

I'm wondering if this is turning from "All-New, All-Different Marvel" to MC-2 as we speak. The original plan being to retire the Silver Age characters in the present (though with the possibility of flashback books) and bring on a new set of young, diverse characters. Whereas now what we're getting is a (literal) side-line, set in a future where those characters have retired, while the main books continue on with the Silver Agers in the present day.

[kingaliencracker]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/03...edium=facebook

The more I read, the more it sounds like Didio was definitely let go over 5G and the turmoil it was creating behind the scenes.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

They can solve the ever-widening gap between the Golden Age/Generation One and a perpetually "15ish years ago" Silver Age/Generation Two by explaining that the Golden Agers were all shunted off to Earth-2 during the intervening years until either the Flash of Two Worlds or Crisis on Infinite Earths merged them back into Earth-0. Since time moved slower on Earth-2, the Golden Agers are only 15 to 25 years older than the Silver Agers.

[HsssH]

I think one thing that people kinda ignore when talking about comics vs manga is that Naruto's son is not called Naruto, but he is his own character.

I'm ok with Batman retiring and Nightwing replacing him, I'm not really ok with Bruce retiring and Dick becoming new Batman.

[kjn]

Bleeding Cool posted afollow-up article from C2E2 about 5G to the one that kingaliencracker posted.

But not everyone at the show seemed to be singing from the same songsheet. And it seemed to come down to the seniority of the person to whom they were speaking. Younger, newer, less senior editors were telling the hoi polloi of comic book creators that everything was fine and ticking along as normal. But certain senior DC creators at the show, who got more private meetings with the DC bigwigs got a different story.

I don't think Dan DiDio was fired over 5G in and of itself—rather it was his handling of a large and complex project. But I think it's also becoming more apparent to me that DiDio had developed into the central creative force at DC. This included which creators who got hired or the plum assignments and the characters and story arcs that got pushed.

Now he's gone, and the entire creative operation is in disarray.

I'm not saying that DC wants or even needs a new DiDio, but they most definitely need to work out some new consensus on the creative directions they want to go in. And that will take time.

I also read this quote from Jim Lee from the earlier article:

our focus is to continue what we've done best, which is to really create character-driven stories, pairing the right creators on the right characters, organically developing a universe that is inclusive, diverse and can tell amazing stories that you guys love

I think fans of Vixen, Poison Ivy, Oracle, and many other characters would take issue with that statement. When I myself read that "organically" it reads like that DC will continue to promise more diversity tomorrow, and continue to do it tomorrow. Likewise the comment on creators and characters doesn't inspire me with confidence on real changes in the lineup of creators.

[Ascended]

Didio's gone, but it's still largely all the same cooks in the kitchen. His departure is unlikely to make a huge difference any time soon.

Even if big changes *are* made, they won't trickle down to the shelf for anywhere from six months to a year. Changing the planned direction for a character or book, and then finding the creators, having them product the comic, and then getting it to the shelf isn't a quick operation.

I mean, say Didio planned on making Wally West the Parallax of this decade and have him go crazy on the mobius chair in the FCBD special and the generation one-shots. The FCBD issue is probably already printed and waiting to be shipped, and the first couple generation one-shots are likely too far along to make any major changes. So if Parallax Wally is the story Didio wanted to tell, it's happening even with him gone. But the later one-shots for G3, 4, and 5, probably aren't so far along that they can't be rewritten, so the end of the story could very well be different from the original plan. And we won't see that until what, September-October or so?

[astro@work]

Didio's gone, but it's still largely all the same cooks in the kitchen. His departure is unlikely to make a huge difference any time soon.

Even if big changes *are* made, they won't trickle down to the shelf for anywhere from six months to a year. Changing the planned direction for a character or book, and then finding the creators, having them product the comic, and then getting it to the shelf isn't a quick operation.

I mean, say Didio planned on making Wally West the Parallax of this decade and have him go crazy on the mobius chair in the FCBD special and the generation one-shots. The FCBD issue is probably already printed and waiting to be shipped, and the first couple generation one-shots are likely too far along to make any major changes. So if Parallax Wally is the story Didio wanted to tell, it's happening even with him gone. But the later one-shots for G3, 4, and 5, probably aren't so far along that they can't be rewritten, so the end of the story could very well be different from the original plan. And we won't see that until what, September-October or so?

All of the above sounds pretty likely to me. The train has already left the station on Wonder Woman #750, Flash #750, and Flash Forward #6...all of which opened the gate on the beginnings of 5G. And it would be suicide to "delay" FCBD Generation Zero. However, there is plenty of time to dial back anything planned for the actual "5G" generation itself which most likely wasn't going to debut until October-ish. Possibe upcoming replacement characters could either be eliminated completely or dialed back so the original isn't completely wiped off the canvas. (Diana as Wonder Woman for example).

The worst possible outcome would have been ageing the OG characters out of their roles such that ANOTHER reboot would be required to get them back in. THAT would have sucked, as the last thing DC needs is another reboot 1-2 years after the 5G reboot. Currently DC can't seem to leave it's history alone long enough to tell a complete story. Soft-pedaling 5G might not be such a bad thing.

[Lee]

All of the above sounds pretty likely to me. The train has already left the station on Wonder Woman #750, Flash #750, and Flash Forward #6...all of which opened the gate on the beginnings of 5G.

They didn't really establish much anyway, beyond snippets of Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern in the early Golden Age, and Wally West becoming aware of the DC timeline being on the verge of collapse.

[Vampire Savior]

The only reason I was for 5G at all is because I (successfully) predicted it would be the end of Dan DiDio at DC, and he's been there in a position of such authority for way too long now. I wanted to see what someone else could do. I didn't know, however, he would get fired before it even happened. DC/AT&T made the right decision here. That 5G thing sounded like a total trainwreck. It sounds like they are trying to mitigate this disaster as best they can.

[Ascended]

The worst possible outcome would have been ageing the OG characters out of their roles such that ANOTHER reboot would be required to get them back in. THAT would have sucked, as the last thing DC needs is another reboot 1-2 years after the 5G reboot. Currently DC can't seem to leave it's history alone long enough to tell a complete story. Soft-pedaling 5G might not be such a bad thing.

One of the good things that might come of 5G is being able to avoid another wholesale reboot to change it. If DC decides to backpedal on this (and it's very likely, because DC can't keep a finger off the reboot button) they *could* just stop publishing books set in 5G. Just put every title in generation 1-4 and pretend 5G didn't happen at all.

Maybe they'd have to say the Wonder Woman in 1940 was really Hippolyta, but outside of *relatively* minor retcons like that, 5G might actually be really easy to pull out of.

[superduperman]

When artists are literally being told to stop drawing in the middle of projects, that's a sign they're changing course. This sounds like my initial theory was correct. That no one but Didio wanted this but it was too far along to just abandon so they have to find some way to turn this around. It sounds like whatever 5G becomes, it won't be the big deal it was initially sold as. And holding talent contests and then not hiring the winners sounds so stupid. Why get people's hopes up like that? What is the point? As more and more comes out, it looks like firing Didio was the right call.

[Korath]

Welp. I can't wait to stop reading DC Comics if 5G doesn't happen. I'm already down to so few titles that it won't even make such a change to my wallet.

I guess novelty and DC comics just don't go hand in hand.

[9th.]

I just wanted to see Luke as Batman, they could give him another Batwing title but we all know that wouldn't last as long.

[skyvolt2000]

When artists are literally being told to stop drawing in the middle of projects, that's a sign they're changing course. This sounds like my initial theory was correct. That no one but Didio wanted this but it was too far along to just abandon so they have to find some way to turn this around. It sounds like whatever 5G becomes, it won't be the big deal it was initially sold as. And holding talent contests and then not hiring the winners sounds so stupid. Why get people's hopes up like that? What is the point? As more and more comes out, it looks like firing Didio was the right call.

Well Vita and Rodney Barnes were in that talent workshop and what did they really do?

Vita did a few fill ins. Meanwhile They were doing Livewire at Valiant, Morbius and X-Men books at Marvel.

Rodney did Duke's mini and more stuff for marvel.

At least those artists are going to get paid but you have to feel for them because what did they pass up to work for DC?

[protege]

I just wanted to see Luke as Batman, they could give him another Batwing title but we all know that wouldn't last as long.

Luke as Batman, Jon as Superman, I would’ve been on board for.the rest I really don’t care about. Luke as Batman in particular would’ve meant a fresh start, without all of Bruce’s personal baggage, the villains would’ve been scaled back to be less nightmarish, and there’s no way Luke could handle the joker, so he’d be gone for a while.