So, Can the Titans Finally be Saved Now?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

So, with certain developments that have taken place over the last few weeks at DC, including a change of leadership, do you think that the Titans franchise could be revived and restored to what it once was? The franchise has been in bad shape for years, but how much of that is actually because of the shortcomings of the franchise vs. TPTB seemingly sabotaging it because of personal biases?

I say they should call Hickman and see if he can do for the Titans what he did for the X-Men. Or find another writer who has a grand vision of where to take the characters.

[Bruce Wayne]

No. They are in the same spot as other faddish youth appeal teams that were strong in the 80s like LoSH. The demographics that drove their appeal is just no longer there. The only one left standing is X-Men. And only because X-Men has blown up as a franchise. Legion and Titans are on life support.

[Jackalope89]

No. They are in the same spot as other faddish youth appeal teams that were strong in the 80s like LoSH. The demographics that drove their appeal is just no longer there. The only one left standing is X-Men. And only because X-Men has blown up as a franchise. Legion and Titans are on life support.

Except for the show, Titans. And Young Justice which has many of the same characters. And just about any other DC property that has gained a large following outside the comics.

[SiegePerilous02]

They still have a steep hill to climb to get back to their former glory. Even back in the glory days, the run started to gradually decline as soon as Perez left. It once rivaled the X-Men in terms of popularity, but I don't think the stories have aged quite as well as the best of X-Men from the same era (though I still love them). They burned almost as bright, but not as long. The X-Men have plenty of ruts, but it seems easier to get out of them occasionally: Jim Lee, Morrison, now Hickman.

The other media adaptations have the benefit of adapting stories for a wider audience that are old hat for the comics reading audience. A comic fan could get enjoyment out of a new take of Terra betraying the team, Raven's conflict with Trigon or Dick becoming Nightwing again, but actual main canon rehashing that stuff over and over again is dull. we already have those comics to re-read.

But never say never. The franchise was considered a lost cause before NTT came around. And while its problems existed before DiDio's time and will likely persist to an extent even with him gone, it should be a bit easier to get around the stumbling blocks now. I would LOVE for Hickman to do for the Titans what he's doing for the X-Men. We would have to wait for him to be done there (and for the X-Men's sake, I hope he's there for a while) but it would be worth the wait if/when he comes over. There are many DC characters I'd love to see him take a crack at, Superman and the Legion being the other big ones behind the Titans.

[Stryfe8]

They still have a steep hill to climb to get back to their former glory. Even back in the glory days, the run started to gradually decline as soon as Perez left. It once rivaled the X-Men in terms of popularity, but I don't think the stories have aged quite as well as the best of X-Men from the same era (though I still love them). They burned almost as bright, but not as long. The X-Men have plenty of ruts, but it seems easier to get out of them occasionally: Jim Lee, Morrison, now Hickman.

The other media adaptations have the benefit of adapting stories for a wider audience that are old hat for the comics reading audience. A comic fan could get enjoyment out of a new take of Terra betraying the team, Raven's conflict with Trigon or Dick becoming Nightwing again, but actual main canon rehashing that stuff over and over again is dull. we already have those comics to re-read.

But never say never. The franchise was considered a lost cause before NTT came around. And while its problems existed before DiDio's time and will likely persist to an extent even with him gone, it should be a bit easier to get around the stumbling blocks now. I would LOVE for Hickman to do for the Titans what he's doing for the X-Men. We would have to wait for him to be done there (and for the X-Men's sake, I hope he's there for a while) but it would be worth the wait if/when he comes over. There are many DC characters I'd love to see him take a crack at, Superman and the Legion being the other big ones behind the Titans.

For the love of everything i don't believe in, please keep hickman away from titans.He's already turned the x-men into an unrecognizable mess, let's just keep it at that.

[Ascended]

They probably can, but it's also probably not a priority.

I'd bet on DC stopping screwing with them for the moment, and doing a meaningful overhaul some time in the future.

I'd be satisfied with that. Seriously, just put the book on the shelves until you find the right pitch.

I'm with Korath in that while I value the relationships and want those to continue, I don't find "friendship" to be a valid excuse for the team. Each of these guys are among the most experienced heroes around, in their primes, and more than capable of operating on a top-end level by themselves (maybe not Garfield). If they're gonna be a team just so they can fight HIVE and Slade again, hard pass. That should be a solo thing for them now. I'll happily watch Nightwing take down a HIVE base. But he can do that himself, he doesn't need help, and neither do Donna, Wally, Vic, or the others (except maybe Garfield).

The Titans as a team have become less than the sum of its parts. Until DC finds a way to stop that (and it's not hard) I'd rather the book stay off the shelves. I'd rather have nothing than have a bad product I won't enjoy anyway.

If 5G gives us books from across the history like some rumors claim, I'd be down with a Titans book set in the past. But "today's" Titans have grown beyond that time and if DC can't acknowledge that and make the necessary adjustments then I'm out.

As for AT&T.....the larger media stuff has never helped the book's sales before. That stuff rarely trickles down to floppies, and AT&T must know that. I could see them wanting to push more of the YA OGN stuff, or pursuing a movie or new shows, but not really caring about the direct market. But if they attribute the rise in trade sales to the larger media stuff, then they might want to more effort put into the comics for that, maybe, though the best Titans material (from years ago) can be re-released in new trades at a cheaper cost.

[sifighter]

I think that depends on the creative team and what they have planned for the book. A lot of people like the characters and the team overall, now what needs to be done is to use the characters people like and go in a good direction with them. Someone at this point needs to have a plan better then “hey we brought the team you like back together”, we’ve seen that multiple times not both during and before rebirth. Give them a mission statement and a purpose in the DC universe and don’t let the Justice league interfere.

If it’s the classic sidekicks training the next generation of sidekicks who don’t wanna join the JSA on a new team go big with that, comics like JSA, Legion, and even the Justice League shows that we can handle expansive line ups. If it’s not that have a good reason for them to be out there and doing hero work. Just have something to tell that readers will like is all I’m saying.

[chief12d]

No. They are in the same spot as other faddish youth appeal teams that were strong in the 80s like LoSH. The demographics that drove their appeal is just no longer there. The only one left standing is X-Men. And only because X-Men has blown up as a franchise. Legion and Titans are on life support.

The X-Men also have a more sustainable narrative than the Titans. Being the champions of a human subspecies meant to transform civilization is a hook with a lot more angles than teens becoming heroes. There’s more space for innovative storytelling and complete overhauls that keep the franchise fresh like what Hickman is doing with Dawn of X. Titans are stuck in the same place teams like the Young Avengers and New Warriors are at. Once they’ve become fully formed heroes it’s hard to find a direction.

The best DC could do with them is have the members that made the team popular graduate into solos or other team books while some become mentors to the next generation. But with all the outside media attention they’ve gotten DC might be hesitant to break up the core team permanently. Or they could go the Young Justice route but without being a subset of the League.

[LifeIsILL]

What is the obsession with Hickman? Is he the ONLY person in the comic person who knows the secret to reviving the Titans and no one else? I just don't get it.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

What is the obsession with Hickman? Is he the ONLY person in the comic person who knows the secret to reviving the Titans and no one else? I just don't get it.

He’s been known to be a big out-of-the-box kind of writer, who’s flipped 3 franchises on their heads by now, with good-to-great effect.

Surely he’s not the only one who could do something interesting* with Titans, but he’s kind of a proven commodity.

*Thats assuming he could come up with any ideas. Does he even like the franchise/characters? Kind of hard to think of ideas for something one has no interest in. That’s why fan-wishing a writer onto a project is always weird. I could be GREAT at writing stories about...ants, but elephants are my weakness.

[Tzigone]

Who says they need to do the same thing? I didn't. All i am saying they need to stepup what they can do. Justice league is an impersonal team. Titans isn't . But, they aren't teen titans anymore. Them being less competent than the league isn't acceptable. All i am saying is, batman isn't the boss of titans. Period. In universe, if they are treated like underlings then its stupid. I am talking them as a team. Not roy harper beats up green arrow with one arm. Individually they can be stronger or weaker than mentors. But, should always be comparable.

Agreed. And that was something that was addressed early in the NTT era. They cannot be a starter league or something that "kids" naturally grow out of, though individuals can, of course, move on to other things. Despite the name, they were very adult for the most part in the heyday. Not kids, and not subordinate to their mentors (the ones that had them).

Can they be saved - I don't know. There are so many problems, some long predating Didio. First, the hamster wheel with Vic, Raven, and to a degree Kori. Less so, Gar. They had great early stories, but Perez leaving or writer's block or both led to them each basically having one "theme" and recycling it. Vic is "man or machine" or whether he's still human. Raven is Trigon and demonic influence (she needed to be over and done with that long ago) and for Kori it's losing her home over and over. Raven and Gar have also been held in teenhood way too long. Growth and progress can't be eschewed.

Justice league is an impersonal team. Titans isn't .

I agree with this. One of those things about early NTT is that the heroes, for the most part, weren't solo acts. Oh, one might pop up alone in 'Tec or whatever. But they are team first, with members who sometimes solo. Versus the JL which is made of solo heroes that sometimes team up. Probably not uncoincidentally like the X-Men. They mostly lived in the same city and so forth. That didn't stop them from having their own lives - Donna got married and so forth - but they were, and should be, much more a team than than the JL, and I'd prefer the Titans remain that. Which does, yes, mean that any heroes that have solo titles (Dick, Wally, etc.) shouldn't remain members to me. I'd also prefer that instead of giant shakeups where half or more of the cast is replaced, members join/leave more gradually.

[Ascended]

Do the Titans have a chance now? I have no idea. It depends on a lot of stuff I don't have answers for.

What's Lee's opinion on the franchise? What does he hope he could do with it? What does he think he can realistically accomplish in this market? What kind of approach would he be likely to approve of?

Same goes for Harras. What's he likely to approve of and support?

Is WB/AT&T watching? If so, does the success of the Titans in larger media (live action, TTGO!, Young Justice, YA novels, etc) make the parent company push for their comics inclusion?

Does DC even have a reason to think the Titans are still worth the effort, or do they feel that their effort will reap greater rewards elsewhere?

I have no idea what any of these people think.

[Midnighter]

Do the Titans have a chance now? I have no idea. It depends on a lot of stuff I don't have answers for.

What's Lee's opinion on the franchise? What does he hope he could do with it? What does he think he can realistically accomplish in this market? What kind of approach would he be likely to approve of?

Same goes for Harras. What's he likely to approve of and support?

Is WB/AT&T watching? If so, does the success of the Titans in larger media (live action, TTGO!, Young Justice, YA novels, etc) make the parent company push for their comics inclusion?

Does DC even have a reason to think the Titans are still worth the effort, or do they feel that their effort will reap greater rewards elsewhere?

I have no idea what any of these people think.

After Justice League bombing WB/ATT Probably sees it as a less damaged brand, so yeah I'd think so.

[9th.]

That whole franchise needs a rebrand and a good one at that

[Ascended]

After Justice League bombing WB/ATT Probably sees it as a less damaged brand, so yeah I'd think so.

They very well might see it as the brand with less stank on it. I'd be kinda surprised otherwise, actually. The lesser known brand, but less damaged currently.

But that probably doesn't mean much. Does the parent company know that larger media success doesn't reach floppies? Do they think it reaches trades? Do they even care, or is all this just cheap storyboards for adaptations?