So, Can the Titans Finally be Saved Now?

[Dataweaver]

• The first arc sees the resurrection of Pantha who then joins the core team as its seventh member

But, but… Pantha's head was having such thrilling adventures in orbit! Why take that away from her?

[Restingvoice]

So here's what I would do. I would find a way to restore Dick to his former self and then I'd immediately cancel his solo title and the Teen Titans title. I'd then put an embargo on any of the Titans characters appearing in any books, save for Wally West as he goes through whatever the whole cosmic-god Wally direction they seem to be cooking up. Once that wraps us, he's welcome to come to the Titans. Anyway, so that means no Deathstroke appearing in Batman, no Donna appearing in the Wonder Woman book, no Starfire or Cyborg in JL Odyssey, etc. Meanwhile, I'd immediately hold counsel with writers and artists to pitch a new direction for the Titans franchise. I have ideas myself, but I'd confer with others before making final plans. However, I would at least designate the characters I wanted for the team, a few of the key directions and changes I wanted to put in place, and start tapping artists to work on the book or books that I planned to launch.

What needs to be done with the Titans is the same thing Hickman did with X-Men and even what Bendis did with Superman. There needs to be a huge status quo shift, but one that maintains the core mythos of the characters. Bendis, so far, has had Jor-El come to take Jon across the galaxy (also dealing with the consequences from that), Clark move the Fortress of Solitude to the Bermuda Triangle, Lois hole up in a hotel room in Chicago writing a book, and even had Clark reveal his secret identity. So, yeah, a lot of status quo shifts, but ones that kind of fit with the nature of the Superman mythology. Same thing with Hickman on X-Men: the formation of a mutant society on Krakoa, the "gateways" connecting mutants across the world, the formation of a council including not just X-Men but also some notable villains like Magneto and Apocolypse, even the apparent polyamorous relationship between Jean, Scott, and Logan. A lot of changes, but ones that seem rational extensions of previous story threads.

As for my plans, I'd launch:

New Titans: written by either Greg Rucka or Matt Fraction (or both), art by Andrea Sorrentino or Jerome Opeña.

• Continuity-wise, we're just gonna pretend Flashpoint never happened
• The core team book starring Nightwing, Donna, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy, and Cyborg
• Dick and Donna choose to reunite the team because they realize that the Titans was the only place they were allowed to realize their full potential
• They also want to launch an initiative that will require the help of their teammates
• The new Titans Tower is a giant T-shaped blimp/aircraft, akin to the Hellicarrier, that can travel anywhere in the world and with the capacity to house hundreds
• The new Titans Tower was built through a collaboration of Starfire, Tamaranean engineers, and Cyborg, using the plans Silas used to construct the original Titans Tower
• The first arc sees the resurrection of Pantha who then joins the core team as its seventh member
• The initiative is revealed to be the Titans reinvented as not just a superhero team, but as a humanitarian organization (helping the downtrodden reach their full potential).
• They dedicate themselves to not just fighting villains but also helping the victims and even reformed villains.
• They also deal with the resettlement of refugees from large-scale supervillain attacks as well as from other disasters, both human and natural; helping people get jobs; physical therapy and trauma counseling; etc.
• They set up "Titans consulates" in every major region and major cities across the globe, all with teleportation portals to the Tower
• Each consulate is headed up by a member of the extended Titans (e.g. Red Star, Bumblebee, Mal Duncan, etc.)
• They are truly the next generation of superheroes, helping people both during and after crises.

I don't know. Just a spitball of an idea. Might also lead to some spin-off books.

Nightwing's sales number is equal to Titans before Ric Grayson regardless of who's writing it. He's easy money. So best keep his title.

Donna not appearing in WW book is also a bad idea because Wonder Woman's book itself is kinda average. Having her family members appear will also increase the chance of a spin-off. Donna deserves a bigger reintroduction. She shouldn't be tied with just Titans.

Why Pantha? Wasn't that era of Titans really unpopular?
What about Roy? Consulate?

I like the T carrier and aftercare concept. This is what I meant with Titans' problem should be personal in the Titans thread. When people differentiate between Titans and the League, the warmth is always mentioned, so capitalize on it.

[Harpsikord]

I do like the idea of the Titans focusing on aftercare and stuff like that. The Titans are meant to be the peoples' heroes, and at least more approachable than the Justice League itself, so showing them doing that between missions just feels right. They're humanitarians as well as superheroes and it's their job to make sure that people are okay and that things are being built back up to standard. As far as basing them on a carrier goes, I actually think that is directly opposed to the idea that the Titans are approachable.

I think what I would do is...

• First, in-universe the Titans need to be recognized as a team on par with the Justice League. Not only are the characters recognized as strong and capable heroes in their own right, they need to be alongside the league and sometimes be shown to reasonably challenge them, like back in the 90s.
• I do agree with basically treating things like Flashpoint didn't happen.
• Related to the above the Titans need to have their rogues taken seriously as well as allowing them to face off against bigger threats. Show the Cult of Blood or Psimon, Fearsome Five, etc as legitimate threats but also display the Titans facing off against threats like Apokolips.
• Two teams and two books, Titans East and Titans West. I think the Titans have enough popular characters that they can manage this and it wouldn't heavily cannibalize them.
• Both teams are set in their own, unique cities within the DC universe. Titans East is set in Jump City and Titans West is set in National City.
• Titans East features Nightwing, Troia, Flash, Tempest, Omen, Starfire, and Kyle Rayner. Titans West features Arsenal, Raven, Cyborg, Bumblebee, Beast Boy, Terra, and Supergirl.
• Both teams have their own towers, the bottom few levels of which are open to the public as a part of their extended outreach to civilians. There are boom tubes that allow the Titans to travel between the two towers and allow access to other areas around the world.
• The teams, while not interchangeable, often work together.
• Both books would have overarching plots that are individual to those specific titles. For instance, Titans West could have something going on dealing with Markovia, Trigon, etc while Titans East deals with Atlantis, Tamaran, or a psychic threat. At the same time someone like Deathstroke could bring the teams together.

[9th.]

Deathstroke has become a popular character on his own (and more succesfull then any titan appart from Dick and Wally), returning him to be just a Titans villain would not be a smart move.
I would in general not have the writers use any old Titan villains, that they franchise constantly rehash the old villains instead of creating new ones is one of the biggest problem of the Titans.

Agreed Slade is too big to pigeonholed right now.

[Frontier]

Deathstroke has become a popular character on his own (and more succesfull then any titan appart from Dick and Wally), returning him to be just a Titans villain would not be a smart move.
I would in general not have the writers use any old Titan villains, that they franchise constantly rehash the old villains instead of creating new ones is one of the biggest problem of the Titans.

If no one's doing anything with Slade, I don't see the problem.

[Digifiend]

True, his solo book has ended with no replacement announced. So at the moment he's limited to guest appearances.

There are boom tubes that allow the Titans to travel between the two towers and allow access to other areas around the world.

Just like in the Young Justice cartoon, eh?

[Restingvoice]

I do like the idea of the Titans focusing on aftercare and stuff like that. The Titans are meant to be the peoples' heroes, and at least more approachable than the Justice League itself, so showing them doing that between missions just feels right. They're humanitarians as well as superheroes and it's their job to make sure that people are okay and that things are being built back up to standard. As far as basing them on a carrier goes, I actually think that is directly opposed to the idea that the Titans are approachable.

I think what I would do is...

• First, in-universe the Titans need to be recognized as a team on par with the Justice League. Not only are the characters recognized as strong and capable heroes in their own right, they need to be alongside the league and sometimes be shown to reasonably challenge them, like back in the 90s.
• I do agree with basically treating things like Flashpoint didn't happen.
• Related to the above the Titans need to have their rogues taken seriously as well as allowing them to face off against bigger threats. Show the Cult of Blood or Psimon, Fearsome Five, etc as legitimate threats but also display the Titans facing off against threats like Apokolips.
• Two teams and two books, Titans East and Titans West. I think the Titans have enough popular characters that they can manage this and it wouldn't heavily cannibalize them.
• Both teams are set in their own, unique cities within the DC universe. Titans East is set in Jump City and Titans West is set in National City.
• Titans East features Nightwing, Troia, Flash, Tempest, Omen, Starfire, and Kyle Rayner. Titans West features Arsenal, Raven, Cyborg, Bumblebee, Beast Boy, Terra, and Supergirl.
• Both teams have their own towers, the bottom few levels of which are open to the public as a part of their extended outreach to civilians. There are boom tubes that allow the Titans to travel between the two towers and allow access to other areas around the world.
• The teams, while not interchangeable, often work together.
• Both books would have overarching plots that are individual to those specific titles. For instance, Titans West could have something going on dealing with Markovia, Trigon, etc while Titans East deals with Atlantis, Tamaran, or a psychic threat. At the same time someone like Deathstroke could bring the teams together.

I'm not that familiar to Titans villain but the Cult of Blood sounds like a threat that can be taken seriously just by the name. Psimon and the Fearsome Five less so. When they appeared I was like... who are these? Their character design don't really stand out either. Maybe Psimon is the most memorable, but not the others, even if they have strong powers.

I'm looking at their lineup right now and former members Dr. Light has become a League enemy and Dr. Sivana is tied to Shazam. The Calculator's usually Oracle's enemy but she doesn't exist right now so that's the one big-name they can still use.

Gizmo is apparently reformed in Rebirth as Nightwing's supporting cast though he hasn't been used in a while.

Threats from Apokolips are usually handled by Justice League, especially Post New 52 where their origin is defined by Darkseid and Cyborg's presence on that team, and if the League is called, DC won't use Titans, unless it's a big event where the League has to call backup, but it will be the League's problem first.

Ideally, I prefer if Cyborg is back with Titans too but I don't see DC returning Cyborg to Titans because they'll see it as a downgrade and the aforementioned ties to Justice League Origins. Unless they really commit to rebooting everything with the new timeline. So I'm holding my hope for this until I see it.

About Deathstroke

He doesn't have to be pigeonholed in Titans but I need a strong reason on why he still deals with them when his daughter Rose joined them and depending on continuity, it was him who asked Dick to train her... and he blamed them for the loss of his son(s) but this is something I want him to get over by now

Deathstroke does have an interesting story with teen heroes because it's like he's trying to replace his own family but doing it wrong

In short, where is Deathstroke's character development at the moment? Is it logical that he's still bothering Titans? I mean unless the story is about Titans preventing Deathstroke assassination attempt

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Deathstroke has become a popular character on his own (and more succesfull then any titan appart from Dick and Wally), returning him to be just a Titans villain would not be a smart move.
I would in general not have the writers use any old Titan villains, that they franchise constantly rehash the old villains instead of creating new ones is one of the biggest problem of the Titans.

But as others have said, his solo title has already ended and he's not getting another one right now. Plus, in his guest appearances, all DC's been trying to do for the past several years is to turn him into a Batman villain, which would be so detrimental to the character in terms of his popularity even. For one, you can definitely make the argument that Batman doesn't need Deathstroke. And, related to that, if they just throw Slade into Batman's rogues' gallery alongside the likes of Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman, Ra's al Ghul, etc. he just gets lost in the shuffle.

I'd rather he be the main arch-enemy and ultimate boss for the Titans than be just another face in Batman's long list of villains. Heck, he wouldn't even be that unique of a face since Deadshot exists.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Nightwing's sales number is equal to Titans before Ric Grayson regardless of who's writing it. He's easy money. So best keep his title.

Yeah, but they've driven Dick's title into the ground. Might as well salvage the character in Titans and then relaunch a new solo for him down the line.

Donna not appearing in WW book is also a bad idea because Wonder Woman's book itself is kinda average. Having her family members appear will also increase the chance of a spin-off. Donna deserves a bigger reintroduction. She shouldn't be tied with just Titans.

I'm really not positive that a Donna Troy solo title would be a big seller at all. I mean, better she's tied with a well-known and still-beloved team than sink by herself. Plus, she's probably more of a Titans character at this point than even a Wonder Woman character. Her most important character arcs have taken place in the Titans comics since like the 80s.

Why Pantha? Wasn't that era of Titans really unpopular?
What about Roy?

Well, Roy is definitely welcome as a guest star, but I wanted to go with Pantha for a few reasons:

1. Going with a character that's not the legacy of a JLA character and limiting that to only Dick and Donna might cut down on the criticism from some people that the Titans are "junior Justice League." And as much as I love Roy, Wally, and Garth, they are always welcome to guest star.

2. Pantha is another female character as well as providing some much-needed Latinx representation

3. I think that any character can be salvaged, regardless of how their first introduction was.

[El_Gato]

I do like the idea of the Titans focusing on aftercare and stuff like that. The Titans are meant to be the peoples' heroes, and at least more approachable than the Justice League itself, so showing them doing that between missions just feels right. They're humanitarians as well as superheroes and it's their job to make sure that people are okay and that things are being built back up to standard. As far as basing them on a carrier goes, I actually think that is directly opposed to the idea that the Titans are approachable.

I think what I would do is...

• First, in-universe the Titans need to be recognized as a team on par with the Justice League. Not only are the characters recognized as strong and capable heroes in their own right, they need to be alongside the league and sometimes be shown to reasonably challenge them, like back in the 90s.
• I do agree with basically treating things like Flashpoint didn't happen.
• Related to the above the Titans need to have their rogues taken seriously as well as allowing them to face off against bigger threats. Show the Cult of Blood or Psimon, Fearsome Five, etc as legitimate threats but also display the Titans facing off against threats like Apokolips.
• Two teams and two books, Titans East and Titans West. I think the Titans have enough popular characters that they can manage this and it wouldn't heavily cannibalize them.
• Both teams are set in their own, unique cities within the DC universe. Titans East is set in Jump City and Titans West is set in National City.
• Titans East features Nightwing, Troia, Flash, Tempest, Omen, Starfire, and Kyle Rayner. Titans West features Arsenal, Raven, Cyborg, Bumblebee, Beast Boy, Terra, and Supergirl.
• Both teams have their own towers, the bottom few levels of which are open to the public as a part of their extended outreach to civilians. There are boom tubes that allow the Titans to travel between the two towers and allow access to other areas around the world.
• The teams, while not interchangeable, often work together.
• Both books would have overarching plots that are individual to those specific titles. For instance, Titans West could have something going on dealing with Markovia, Trigon, etc while Titans East deals with Atlantis, Tamaran, or a psychic threat. At the same time someone like Deathstroke could bring the teams together.

I love your idea of a Titans East and a Titans West split, though I’d change a few things about your lineup and idea.

Titans West: Would be based in San Francisco or Los Angeles and would need to feature more Latino and Asian members to fully embrace the demographics of the setting in real life (West Coast is incredibly diverse).

Cyborg, Beast Boy, Raven, Starfire, Terra, Blue Beetle, Traci 13 and Ravager

Titans East: Would be based in New York City and would feature some of the more classic Titans.

Nightwing, Troia, Arsenal, Kyle Rayner, Omen, Bumblebee, Jericho and Mal Duncan

[Restingvoice]

Speaking of pre-reboot, are we bringing back the Titans kids? Wally's family is already back, but Lian's still dead outside of Convergence, and although Donna's baby died long before the reboot, do you want to keep hers as well?

[Lee Stone]

With Fearsome Five, I'd keep: Psimon and Jinx.
And add: Pteradon (from the Hybrid), Clayface (the female one) and Shrapnel (from Doom Patrol)

With the Brotherhood of Evil, I'd keep: Phobia, Plasmus, Houngan and Warp.
And add: Mekanique (obviously a new version), Shatterfist (from the Cadre) and Nox (from the New Olympians)

I'd keep the following villains:
Trigon
Brother Blood
Cheshire
Deathstroke
The Hive

Update the following villains:
Godiva
Wildebeast

Add the following to their rogues:
Queen Bee (the Bialyan version) -now the leader of the Hive; finally reveal her real name and use 'Queen Bee' as more of a title, like 'Madame Hydra'. This would free her from being pushed into limbo whenever someone decides to bring back the alien Queen Bee. The Hive would be now centralized in Bialya.
Kobra
Klarion
Vandal Savage
The Beast (formerly KGBeast, to take Deathstroke's place as top mercenary villain if/when he's turned hero)
The Masters of Disaster (from the Outsiders) - a team worthy of stepping up to the Fearsome Five and BoE level.

[Aahz]

I'm not that familiar to Titans villain but the Cult of Blood sounds like a threat that can be taken seriously just by the name.

Those guys have been done way to often, and got worse with every incarnation.

But as others have said, his solo title has already ended and he's not getting another one right now.

But he might get one one.
And if you want to bring pre Flashpoint back, it simply dosen't make much sense for him to after Titans again.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

But he might get one one.
And if you want to bring pre Flashpoint back, it simply dosen't make much sense for him to after Titans again.

If the goal is to revive the franchise, it just makes more sense IMO for any incoming writer to know that he or she has full, unencumbered access to all of the Titans characters. We shouldn't stymie that just because Deathstroke might possibly get a solo series. One that might also complicate whatever plans a writer on Titans would want to do with him. The entire mythos needs salvaging. That requires all hands on deck.

Also, who says I want Slade to be fighting the Titans?

[king81992]

I'm not that familiar to Titans villain but the Cult of Blood sounds like a threat that can be taken seriously just by the name. Psimon and the Fearsome Five less so. When they appeared I was like... who are these? Their character design don't really stand out either. Maybe Psimon is the most memorable, but not the others, even if they have strong powers.

I'm looking at their lineup right now and former members Dr. Light has become a League enemy and Dr. Sivana is tied to Shazam. The Calculator's usually Oracle's enemy but she doesn't exist right now so that's the one big-name they can still use.

Gizmo is apparently reformed in Rebirth as Nightwing's supporting cast though he hasn't been used in a while.

Threats from Apokolips are usually handled by Justice League, especially Post New 52 where their origin is defined by Darkseid and Cyborg's presence on that team, and if the League is called, DC won't use Titans, unless it's a big event where the League has to call backup, but it will be the League's problem first.

Ideally, I prefer if Cyborg is back with Titans too but I don't see DC returning Cyborg to Titans because they'll see it as a downgrade and the aforementioned ties to Justice League Origins. Unless they really commit to rebooting everything with the new timeline. So I'm holding my hope for this until I see it.

About Deathstroke

He doesn't have to be pigeonholed in Titans but I need a strong reason on why he still deals with them when his daughter Rose joined them and depending on continuity, it was him who asked Dick to train her... and he blamed them for the loss of his son(s) but this is something I want him to get over by now

Deathstroke does have an interesting story with teen heroes because it's like he's trying to replace his own family but doing it wrong

In short, where is Deathstroke's character development at the moment? Is it logical that he's still bothering Titans? I mean unless the story is about Titans preventing Deathstroke assassination attempt

All the Fearsome Five need in the comics are actual personalities. Its bizarre how the cartoons gave them personalities and the comics haven't.

Church of Blood's problem is that they only have one guy, Brother Blood (and sometimes Trigon when he decides to back Brother Blood). Everyone else is just a faceless mook/ goon. To make the Church of Blood a threat, you'd have to give Brother Blood actual henchmen. Possibly borrow villains from other franchises who match his theme.

Grail and possibly Grayven are children of Darkseid and New Gods, I feel like they'd work better as Cyborg villains. Cyborg has a connection to the Motherbox and Grail would be his opposite thematically: lone wolf vs team player, serious vs laid back(assuming Cyborg is competently written and the man vs machine narrative is downplayed)

Deathstroke could go after the Titans for various reasons depending on the roster. If Rose is on the team, he might do it just to mess with her. Or he might mess with the Titans in hopes of making them into unwitting pawns for a scheme of his own. His current character development is basically a confirmation of what anyone with a brain already knew : Slade is an amoral asshole who knows he's a toxic influence on everyone, but doesn't care and will manipulate, use and abuse anyone to achieve his own goals.