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  1. #1
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Default Doctor Doom #6: The adventures of Fancy Cleopatra and Steely Dan **SPOILERS**



    The Road to Latveria

    Doctor Doom #6

    Skipping ahead a bit from last issue's conclusion, a re-armored Doom and Kang are on their way to some unknown destination in the Southwestern United States. They've been en route for several days and to pass the time they discuss whether or not they are blood relations. Then move on to the impending disaster on the Moon. Doom considers this a sufficient distraction to help pass the time

    The pair encounter a fellow hobo and some good old boys in a pick-up and things do not go well. Doom will suffer no fools or Texans apparently. I suspect that writer Christopher and artist Sal Larroca were riffing on Planes, Trains and automobiles since all of these modes of transportation appear in the story. Yeah, I'm counting that pick up truck as the automobile . They encounter the mercenary pair of Paladin and the Orb (forgot all about this guy) but they are no match for Ultra Diode weapon. Kang merely incapacitates them as Doom's Ace in the Hole enters the scene in a plane bringing a surprise arranged by Zora and the Latverian underground. I sure would like to know where this guy got his hands on an Ultimate Nullifier.

    As a bonus to this theme of modes of transportation , Doom rides off on a horse (minus Kang) as he crosses over the border to Mexico were he expects transport to Latveria to be waiting. It would be fitting if the name of this ship is the Poseidon.

    I was disappointed to see Kang get greedy and attempt to take the Ultimate Nullifier for himself. He tries to use the same Ultra Diode that sapped the will of Paladin and the Orb but unfortunately for Kang he underestimated the iron will of Doom. Something tells me we've not seen the last of Kang and I expect him to pop up again in the future. At least I hope so.

    We do see Adam Brashear and Reed make a last page appearance when Doom phones them (?) from Mexico with his solution for their problem with the black hole. I don't think they were too happy with it though.

    I really enjoyed the way that Cantwell throws all these people in Doom's path and how he just plows his way through them. A self-confessed misanthrope, Doom just doesn't get along with others. The goal/dilemma of destroying the invincible is repeated a few times in the story to reference the growing crisis with the black hole. But it also applies to Doom here. Nothing is going to stop him from returning to Latveria.


  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    This series feels like a sequel/continuation of the Astonishing Tales Doom stories, albeit with more modern storytelling touches and a Doom and a greater serialization.

    I enjoyed this idea of Doom in mundane situations which Cantwell has ran with throughout this series. He brings grandeur wherever he roams.

  3. #3
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This series feels like a sequel/continuation of the Astonishing Tales Doom stories, albeit with more modern storytelling touches and a Doom and a greater serialization.

    I enjoyed this idea of Doom in mundane situations which Cantwell has ran with throughout this series. He brings grandeur wherever he roams.
    He certainly does. I really liked this little respite from the larger ongoing crises of the black hole, the takeover of Latveria and the mysterious visions. And speaking of mundane situations, it kind of reminds me of the time when Doom checked into a hotel on the French Riveria in Astonishing Tales. This was after Prince Rodolpho and the Faceless One trashed the castle and he was went there while things were being rebuilt. The hotel management freaked out when he strolled into the casino because they were worried that with his armor's electronics he could tamper with the roulette wheel so that he would win

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This series feels like a sequel/continuation of the Astonishing Tales Doom stories, albeit with more modern storytelling touches and a Doom and a greater serialization.

    I enjoyed this idea of Doom in mundane situations which Cantwell has ran with throughout this series. He brings grandeur wherever he roams.
    I like your choice of words here.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This series feels like a sequel/continuation of the Astonishing Tales Doom stories, albeit with more modern storytelling touches and a Doom and a greater serialization.

    I enjoyed this idea of Doom in mundane situations which Cantwell has ran with throughout this series. He brings grandeur wherever he roams.
    This is a great observation. Some characters change themselves depending on what place they are in, they are dominated by the tone of the story. Doom on the other hand changes the atmosphere of a place by his mere presence, that's the strength of his character, a genuine sense of charisma that seems to exist independent of Marvel comics itself.

    Even in the hands of a mediocre writer and not even a main character Doom regularly steals the show, so to speak, whenever he makes a guest appearance in another book. Here though with his own book and with a writer like Cantwell, who understands the character better then most, Doom can really shine.

  6. #6
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    I really hope this comic lasts at least as long as Infamous Iron Man. I don't know how far out Cantwell has plotted things out but I would like to see another arc spin out of this current one. We still have to learn the source of the visions Doom is having.


    In this tweet Cantwell explains how the two children Doom talks about from his visions are modeled after his own two sons https://mobile.twitter.com/ifyoucant...75065203535872

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Thanks for the review/recap!

    I really enjoyed this issue, as I have this entire series thus far. It's clear now that ongoing writers will be taking with them "classic" Doom and forgoing any evolution that may have occured after Battle world...an old point of contention by now, but one that still irks me.

    Having said that, Cantwell is doing some new, interesting things with the traditional characterizations. It's been an amazing ride, like those have said above, juxtaposing Doom, Destroyer of Worlds, against the prosaic affairs of the commonplace. If you ever wanted to know how Doom would react to Boxcar Willie, now you know!

    Of course, the main pull of the arc is twofold: a) the visions, and b)Kang. Kang is always interesting to have around, even if he's used more as a plot device than as an actual character.

  8. #8
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    Thanks for the review/recap!

    I really enjoyed this issue, as I have this entire series thus far. It's clear now that ongoing writers will be taking with them "classic" Doom and forgoing any evolution that may have occured after Battle world...an old point of contention by now, but one that still irks me.

    Having said that, Cantwell is doing some new, interesting things with the traditional characterizations. It's been an amazing ride, like those have said above, juxtaposing Doom, Destroyer of Worlds, against the prosaic affairs of the commonplace. If you ever wanted to know how Doom would react to Boxcar Willie, now you know!

    Of course, the main pull of the arc is twofold: a) the visions, and b)Kang. Kang is always interesting to have around, even if he's used more as a plot device than as an actual character.
    I think Cantwell does something interesting with Kang here too. My hunch is that this version of Kang might be a younger one, not long after he found that time platform of whoever that ancestor may be. I suppose that current canon is that it is Nathaniel Richards, but even that I suspect is a retcon by later writers. The early reveal occurs in Stan & Jack's era and it shows a medieval castle as it's location, not Nathaniel Richard California mansion. Cantwell may giving us Kang's early attempts to find that ancestor. And it also reminds me of how Kang and Doom had some team ups in Acts of Vengeance, although I haven't tracked all of those down.

    As for this being traditional Doom, I was really disappointed in what Slott gave us in his Fantastic Four after Bendis's Infamous Iron Man. I will continue to give BMB props for that. But in some respects Cantwell is giving us both. I hope we see more flashbacks to the other Doom, who came out of years of solitary confinement a changed man....apparently. I think there will be more to it than that.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think Cantwell does something interesting with Kang here too. My hunch is that this version of Kang might be a younger one, not long after he found that time platform of whoever that ancestor may be. I suppose that current canon is that it is Nathaniel Richards, but even that I suspect is a retcon by later writers. The early reveal occurs in Stan & Jack's era and it shows a medieval castle as it's location, not Nathaniel Richard California mansion. Cantwell may giving us Kang's early attempts to find that ancestor. And it also reminds me of how Kang and Doom had some team ups in Acts of Vengeance, although I haven't tracked all of those down.

    As for this being traditional Doom, I was really disappointed in what Slott gave us in his Fantastic Four after Bendis's Infamous Iron Man. I will continue to give BMB props for that. But in some respects Cantwell is giving us both. I hope we see more flashbacks to the other Doom, who came out of years of solitary confinement a changed man....apparently. I think there will be more to it than that.


    So 2 things: 1. Stan and Jack named both Reed's dad AND Kang Nathaniel, correct? I haven't ever been able to make sense of what is canon, what was intended, etc.

    2. I agree, BMB did develop the new Doom that Hickman gave us...but he also erased it all at the hands of the Hood. That was pretty disappointing. And yeah, Slott's brainwashing / memory block after secret wars was lame and it made no sense...otherwise how would Doom have known Reed was alive (as mentioned several times during Infamous Iron Man)?

    I mean, there was even a scene where Doom recounts being god of Battleworld!

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member Coatl's Avatar
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    Liked the issue, the interactions were hilarious, and one thing I enjoying of this is, that this is not one of those cheap attempt make the villain look heroic making others look worse or showing how they are just misunderstood souls, Doom is a men with and idea and a way to live, and he is making no apologies, if someone bothers him that fool will get very damaged or even killed for his naivety, also he doesn't share vagon.

    But at same time feels a bit like a filler.

    I can't stop asking myself. If Doom is in such hurry to return Latveria and take it back before the Skymiran Government feels too comfortable in his castle, why he didn't fly with Victorious? why he needed to travel by train and horse two of the slowest ways? to a remote place and then find his transport. Isn't his armor able to fly? He can't just travel by air arrive to Latveria in secret and then take the nullifier (who is going to make the fight very short by the way).

    I wish that all we have seen and heard in this issue has some kind of weight at the end.

    By the way of course Kang can't be dead, he probably would be ok or in the worst case just respawn as when Blue marvel shoot him.
    "And you eater of world. May you taste our righteous fire, And choke on it. For my planet's sake, I spit my last breath at thee"

  11. #11
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    So 2 things: 1. Stan and Jack named both Reed's dad AND Kang Nathaniel, correct? I haven't ever been able to make sense of what is canon, what was intended, etc.

    2. I agree, BMB did develop the new Doom that Hickman gave us...but he also erased it all at the hands of the Hood. That was pretty disappointing. And yeah, Slott's brainwashing / memory block after secret wars was lame and it made no sense...otherwise how would Doom have known Reed was alive (as mentioned several times during Infamous Iron Man)?

    I mean, there was even a scene where Doom recounts being god of Battleworld!
    I wouldn't say Bendis erased it all. We knew that Doom was scarred in the final battle with "demon possessed Hood who talked more like Mephisto" but we didn't know how he would react to it. That was all on Slott

    Stan and Jack never even brought up Reed's father in their run. Nathaniel Richards was introduced in Byrne's run. The relationship first gets explored in FF Annual #2 when Rama Tut rescues Doctor Doom who is floating out there in outer space from an earlier FF story.
    Rama Tut does mention finding an ancestor's time machine in that panel so we are getting some confusing clues here. Is Kang/Rama Tut Doom from another time or is he an ancestor. Stan once again brings up the clue that Kang knows that Doom may be his ancestor in his Avengers #24. IIRC this would be the last time Stan would bring it up. Everything else occurs years later with John Byrne's FF and then Busiek goes into thing further in his Avengers Forever.






  12. #12
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I wouldn't say Bendis erased it all. We knew that Doom was scarred in the final battle with "demon possessed Hood who talked more like Mephisto" but we didn't know how he would react to it. That was all on Slott

    Stan and Jack never even brought up Reed's father in their run. Nathaniel Richards was introduced in Byrne's run. The relationship first gets explored in FF Annual #2 when Rama Tut rescues Doctor Doom who is floating out there in outer space from an earlier FF story.
    Rama Tut does mention finding an ancestor's time machine in that panel so we are getting some confusing clues here. Is Kang/Rama Tut Doom from another time or is he an ancestor. Stan once again brings up the clue that Kang knows that Doom may be his ancestor in his Avengers #24. IIRC this would be the last time Stan would bring it up. Everything else occurs years later with John Byrne's FF and then Busiek goes into thing further in his Avengers Forever.





    ������

    The last two panels from F4 page make no sense! If they're the same person, either

    A) Doom was born, then traveled to the future and became Kang/Rama-Tut. How would he not remember that he was originally Doom?

    B) Kang/Nathaniel Richards is born in the future, goes back in time and becomes Doom...but then Doom would've remembered being Nathaniel Richards!

    It's absurd. I wonder what the "marvel method" plot was for that issue and what Jack had in mind vs what Stan ended up scripting

    And yes technically bendis didn't erase it all, but by disfiguring Doom again, he carried a lot of the load. Slott simply ignored the fact that Doom remembered Battleworld and did his own thing.

  13. #13
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    ������

    The last two panels from F4 page make no sense! If they're the same person, either

    A) Doom was born, then traveled to the future and became Kang/Rama-Tut. How would he not remember that he was originally Doom?

    B) Kang/Nathaniel Richards is born in the future, goes back in time and becomes Doom...but then Doom would've remembered being Nathaniel Richards!

    It's absurd. I wonder what the "marvel method" plot was for that issue and what Jack had in mind vs what Stan ended up scripting

    And yes technically bendis didn't erase it all, but by disfiguring Doom again, he carried a lot of the load. Slott simply ignored the fact that Doom remembered Battleworld and did his own thing.
    About those panels, yeah Stan is making no sense here. I am still to this day a bit confused once other writers made Kang even more messed up with all these other entities; Immortus, Scarlet Centurian and so forth. What I don't understand is why it seems to be canon that Kang is Nathaniel Richards. IMO it looked to me that Byrne gave us Kang already as a baby in his Fantastic Four.....I always thought that was meant to show that Kang was the son of future traveler Nathaniel and his wife Cassandra.


  14. #14
    small press afficionado matt levin's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed the first issue. Since then, though, it's seemed slow, although I very well may not be in sync with what's being attempted. Haven't read issue 6 yet. I AM glad to learn that apparently this is possibly going to be a longer than 6 issue series with room, therefore, to grow.
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  15. #15
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    Have Doom and Kang ever done a DNA test? Because if they can prove that millions of people are descended from Genghis Khan, proving Kang and Doom are related shouldn't be that hard. Mind you, considering how far in the future Kang is from, Doom could literally have millions of descendants by his time .

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