View Poll Results: Should Wanda Maimoff stand trial fot her role in House of M ?

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  • Yes

    53 48.18%
  • No

    57 51.82%
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  1. #1291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Are you guys familiar with Cindy Reynolds (Gypsy) in DC Comics?
    Yes, very terrible name. Wasn't even Romani. Just was named that because of major stereotypes. Was an alien that travelled and also had the halloween costume look. Dick Grayson isn't good either.
    Was Curlytop

  2. #1292

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Part of it is true, another part is it's a shield for erasing Scarlet Witch being a minority, degrading her by what wears and defending this post in relation to Wanda. Wanda may be fictional but the implications are staggering where this discussion about a real Romani woman.



    This isn't about protecting the real minorities, it's about hurting a fictional minority character. Compare this to the reaction to the Phoenix Five, especially Cyclops and Emma Frost.

    Edit: It'd be one thing were this about justice, that's why this thread is about a trial except this skips over the trial part to get to the execution.
    What she wears and does isn't her fault as a character. But she is a huge stereotype. It has to do with people writing and drawing her that aren't Romani.

    Characters who were made Romani just because of magic are terribly racist, because it's a huge stereotype and isn't true. Magic goes against Romanipe. Which is a set of beliefs and life rules Romani live by. It is believed to only welcome bad things. Specifically bad spirits that will do horrible things to families that welcome it. So it is forbidden and you can be exiled for it. There are some acceptible practices, like divination and herbalism, but those can vary by group. And it'd still be stereotypical to portray Romani only as that.

    The dress that comics usually do is very Ren Faire and looks like cheap Halloween costumes. Wanda's bellydancer costume isn't at all accurate for a Roma women. Because while their have been Romani dancers, bellydancing is NOT Romani. Her traditional dress would be something a lot more conservative, and probably not deemed sexy. I think often times they confuse Spanish Flamenco (which is Romani of of origin) with bellydancing. But Spanish Romani are a completely different group.

    Romapop is a group of Romani comic readers who have been trying to get better representation in comics for years. And very little has improved at all. They need to do better.
    Was Curlytop

  3. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    What she wears and does isn't her fault as a character. But she is a huge stereotype. It has to do with people writing and drawing her that aren't Romani.

    Characters who were made Romani just because of magic are terribly racist, because it's a huge stereotype and isn't true. Magic goes against Romanipe. Which is a set of beliefs and life rules Romani live by. It is believed to only welcome bad things. Specifically bad spirits that will do horrible things to families that welcome it. So it is forbidden and you can be exiled for it. There are some acceptible practices, like divination and herbalism, but those can vary by group. And it'd still be stereotypical to portray Romani only as that.

    The dress that comics usually do is very Ren Faire and looks like cheap Halloween costumes. Wanda's bellydancer costume isn't at all accurate for a Roma women. Because while their have been Romani dancers, bellydancing is NOT Romani. Her traditional dress would be something a lot more conservative, and probably not deemed sexy. I think often times they confuse Spanish Flamenco (which is Romani of of origin) with bellydancing. But Spanish Romani are a completely different group.

    Romapop is a group of Romani comic readers who have been trying to get better representation in comics for years. And very little has improved at all. They need to do better.
    Which is a good argument against her characterisation and fashion sense, however, those aspects of her were being used to erase the fact she was representing a minority in comics so the post I quote was ok to use against her which included "murdering her on sight." The comments you're supporting made by others were a fig leaf to attack the character, not an argument in good faith on their behalf. I agree with what you're saying, but what about the other parts of the discussion?

    I'll repost the quote which started this off pages ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComeOnBunny
    No, she should just be murdered on sight.
    What are you thoughts on this in relation to Wanda?

  4. #1294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Which is a good argument against her characterisation and fashion sense, however, those aspects of her were being used to erase the fact she was representing a minority in comics so the post I quote was ok to use against her which included "murdering her on sight." The comments you're supporting made by others were a fig leaf to attack the character, not an argument in good faith on their behalf. I agree with what you're saying, but what about the other parts of the discussion?

    I'll repost the quote which started this off pages ago.



    What are you thoughts on this in relation to Wanda?
    YOU brought her being Romani into it. That was not the discussion being had. I didn't see anyone mentioning that she should be murdered because she's Romani.

    Now I wouldn't want to see Romani removed from comics, just improved upon. But my positioning is one person's. There are Romani that want the same as me. There are Romani that don't want Romani written at all, unless it's by someone who is Romani. So the feeling around that is still very subjective.

    I don't believe anyone here hates the character because of her race. Some take fictional stuff a little too seriously, like it actually happened. And wasn't just an editorial mandate in a fictional story. But I didn't see erasure or racism.
    Was Curlytop

  5. #1295
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Which is a good argument against her characterisation and fashion sense, however, those aspects of her were being used to erase the fact she was representing a minority in comics so the post I quote was ok to use against her which included "murdering her on sight." The comments you're supporting made by others were a fig leaf to attack the character, not an argument in good faith on their behalf. I agree with what you're saying, but what about the other parts of the discussion?

    I'll repost the quote which started this off pages ago.



    What are you thoughts on this in relation to Wanda?
    its impressive how other people call you out and you immediatly change the subject, because you can never discuss what's at hand unless its benefitial to your opinions.
    You still called me disgusting btw
    Last edited by Ferro; 05-25-2020 at 08:09 AM.

  6. #1296
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    Now since I think about it. Wanda being forced to be a member of the X-Men, SHOULD be her punishment for House of M.

  7. #1297
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Which is a good argument against her characterisation and fashion sense, however, those aspects of her were being used to erase the fact she was representing a minority in comics so the post I quote was ok to use against her which included "murdering her on sight." The comments you're supporting made by others were a fig leaf to attack the character, not an argument in good faith on their behalf. I agree with what you're saying, but what about the other parts of the discussion?

    I'll repost the quote which started this off pages ago.



    What are you thoughts on this in relation to Wanda?
    Give it up Deelishis you're alone in this fight.

  8. #1298
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Now since I think about it. Wanda being forced to be a member of the X-Men, SHOULD be her punishment for House of M.
    Wouldn't that be a punishment for the people who hate her as well? I mean Exodus is indoctrinating the youth on the island to the idea that she is some unrepentant monster so how is making her an X-man going to be a punishment for herself? If anything she will get harassed 24/7 regardless of what Dad says (if he even cares btw) until she finally does go bezerk and lashes out and in that scenario would she really be at fault?

  9. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Wouldn't that be a punishment for the people who hate her as well? I mean Exodus is indoctrinating the youth on the island to the idea that she is some unrepentant monster so how is making her an X-man going to be a punishment for herself? If anything she will get harassed 24/7 regardless of what Dad says (if he even cares btw) until she finally does go bezerk and lashes out and in that scenario would she really be at fault?
    She’ll see that mutantcy really does have a culture. Polaris would at least attempt to reach out to her. Kurt will know don’t flirt with her. Will it be hard on her, sure. But it’s the best way to amend fences.

    Heck. Put her on a team with Kurt, Exodus, Gorgon and Toad. That would be interesting.

  10. #1300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Kurt will know don’t flirt with her.
    You'd like to hope so.
    Was Curlytop

  11. #1301
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    Well, that’s just crazy talk...how are we going to get Nocturne that way?

  12. #1302
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Well, that’s just crazy talk...how are we going to get Nocturne that way?
    We'll take a more Sinister path...
    GrindrStone(D)

  13. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    YOU brought her being Romani into it. That was not the discussion being had. I didn't see anyone mentioning that she should be murdered because she's Romani.
    I was stating the obvious about what they were doing. Everyone knows Wanda’s heritage and they didn’t phase them in the least, Wanda didn’t stop being Romani because they hate her. This is simply the latest attack, this thread and others are filled with it. It’s fine to dislike characters but this goes overboard. That was the implications of the discussion being had, which included the phrase “murder on sight.” Wanda’s fictional, so they’re not hurting a real person but if they were would that give you pause? Especially given this is on a forum about minority metaphors and its jarring to see this react to an actual real minority being represented.

    Now I wouldn't want to see Romani removed from comics, just improved upon. But my positioning is one person's. There are Romani that want the same as me. There are Romani that don't want Romani written at all, unless it's by someone who is Romani. So the feeling around that is still very subjective.
    This isn’t about subjectivity about how Romani are addressed in comics, which is a worthy discussion in itself. It’s about this specific character getting far too much heat while they let other characters get a pass who did worse things. It has nothing to do with the people she’s hurt, it’s what she represents. Which is something Scott, Apocalypse, Shaw, Sinister, Namor or Emma don’t get.

    I don't believe anyone here hates the character because of her race. Some take fictional stuff a little too seriously, like it actually happened. And wasn't just an editorial mandate in a fictional story. But I didn't see erasure or racism.
    That’s an understatement. They hate the characters for many reasons, not all of it logically. They hate her so much they’ve tried to take away her status as a minority for that horrible comment to be normalised. A comment that would be bad aimed at any demographic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro
    its impressive how other people call you out and you immediatly change the subject, because you can never discuss what's at hand unless its benefitial to your opinions.
You still called me disgusting btw
    They’ve been trying to change the subject, which was about that ghastly comment - not me. Silly me for speaking up about murdering a minority character. I called the comment about Wanda being murdered on sight disgusting. But now I’m curious, do you have more than one account? I wasn’t speaking to you in that short exchange.

  14. #1304
    Extraordinary Member Master of Sound's Avatar
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    Should Wanda Maimoff stand trial fot her role in House of M
    I believe she should have been on trial, she might have gotten off, due to her mental state, but still, there should have been a trial.

    Due to her words many lives of mutants were destroyed, or in some cases, even ended. So her words were used as a weapon, to end some lives, making her a murderer and it was not in self defense.

    So, she should be trailed and convicted as well.
    "Burn Her. Slowly. I want her to remember how dying like this feels"- Destiny

  15. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    Should Scarlet Witch stand trial for her House of M actions ?
    Her actions weren't her own during HoM, so she could stand trial sure, but she would walk out of it free.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    Though House of M happened 15 years ago many mutants lost their birthgiven powers and were made human due to this event.
    Mutants are by definition humans as much as Sapiens are humans too, so no, mutants weren't "made humans" by HoM, they were randered powerless, which is very different.
    And also, powers are not what's defining who is a mutant, many of them were already powerless before HoM.
    Having an active X-gene is what's defining who is a mutant, and THAT is the Reason why many of the Depowered lost their Identity as mutants, not the loss of powers they might not even had had beforehand, but the loss of their X-gene.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    Now that Krakoa is recognised as a nation is it time for mutants to pass judgement on one of the most tragic events in mutant history.
    They can try. But Wanda Maximoff isn't a Citizen of Krakoa, she's an American. We Don't know if Krakoa has the ability to take legal actions against US citizenry.
    Personally, I doubt it, given the US cannot take legal actions against Citizen of Krakoa, why would the opposite be true? That wouldn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    How will the quiet Council of Krakoa judge Wandas actions during House of M ?.
    Now, we all saw how Krakoa's justice system worked, with favoritism and double standards, but even in such context, they won't.
    She was possessed at the time of HoM and her actions weren't her own.
    Any of the telepaths in said council will verify that and that is enough to have the charge against her dropped.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    It will be interesting Magnetos' stance towards Wanda now that she isn't his daughter due to the Uncanny Avengers Vol 2 Retcon.
    Will the retcon stay or will they return Wanda and Pietro to being mutants.
    Wanda is better off not being related to Magneto and all the toxicity coming from it.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

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