View Poll Results: Should Wanda Maimoff stand trial fot her role in House of M ?

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  • Yes

    53 48.18%
  • No

    57 51.82%
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  1. #1081
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    Cool, so you agree that Wanda didn’t intend for M-Day to happen, and it was the Life Force controlling her.

    Awesome. Sounds like something someone deserves to die, or otherwise be punished, over.
    I'm not going to rehash the previous convo, but I've explained the similarities and the differences between her and the P5.

    The P5 paid for their sins even though Stark forced the Phoenix onto them. Wanda didn't.

  2. #1082

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    I'm not going to rehash the previous convo, but I've explained the similarities and the differences between her and the P5.

    The P5 paid for their sins even though Stark forced the Phoenix onto them. Wanda didn't.
    I don’t think the P5 necessarily had any sins to pay for. But just because they were written to doesn’t mean other characters should have to pay for undeserving sins too.

    Well, except Scott’s sin of kicking Hope in the uterus to “train” her, instead of giving her to Rachel. That should probably count for something.

  3. #1083
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I think Wanda needs a proper redemption arc and get back with the Avengers, maybe the magical side of the Avengers.

    I donīt know were is Hickman going bringing back the whole decimation situation but if I had to guess I would say he wants to do his version of a new meeting between Wanda and the X-men, I think there are reasons that this time it will be better than during childrenīs crusade

    1.- because things has been better for the X-men and mutants as a whole now that they are together and united.
    2.- Because I donīt think they really see Wanda as their enemy but neither can fully forgive what happened because itīs a situation that still affects them to this day.

    Think about Rogue and Carol Danvers for example, Carol knows Rogue is a hero now but she still feels resentment for what she did to her, I think the same situation happens with the X-men and Wanda and itīs fair for them to feel this way because nothing has really happened in the story to make them change their pov.

    This is why I think that a proper redemption story is neccesary, I hope Hickman has something like this in mind or at least a story about them letting behind the whole decimation story.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-15-2020 at 12:51 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  4. #1084
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    wanda stans are like 1 to 10 x-men fans, in other words wanda isnt relevant enough to be protected from a story she caused, in this situation telling a satisfying x-men story is more important than "protecting" a terrible mediocre character a handfull of people enjoy, but unfortunatly she came back when the offices were not favoring the x-men, so the room for proper justice is closing but im hoping in the future of the current status quo, we will finally get a proper destruction of the pretender
    This is so on point it's Apt
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #1085

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    wanda stans are like 1 to 10 x-men fans, in other words wanda isnt relevant enough to be protected from a story she caused, in this situation telling a satisfying x-men story is more important than "protecting" a terrible mediocre character a handfull of people enjoy, but unfortunatly she came back when the offices were not favoring the x-men, so the room for proper justice is closing but im hoping in the future of the current status quo, we will finally get a proper destruction of the pretender
    Wanda might not have been a wildly popular character before the movies, but that was no excuse for the trash that was AD/HoM. If Marvel is only into treating characters right because they are popular, then that's a bad approach. And you'll never get a proper destruction of the "pretender" because they aren't interested in that. You got a punch, a stab and some new powered mutants. None of us got what we wanted out of that mess.
    Was Curlytop

  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Think about Rogue and Carol Danvers for example, Carol knows Rogue is a hero now but she still feels resentment for what she did to her, I think the same situation happens with the X-men and Wanda and itīs fair for them to feel this way because nothing has really happened in the story to make them change their pov.
    Now I'm reminded of that X-Men/Avengers novel from the late '90s (in that brief period where the Avengers were selling like an X-Men comic), I can't really remember the plot of it, but Wanda and Rogue are both kidnapped and Wanda is all "Carol Danvers is my friend and I don't trust you," but Wanda apologizes in the end, as she should.


  7. #1087
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Now I'm reminded of that X-Men/Avengers novel from the late '90s (in that brief period where the Avengers were selling like an X-Men comic), I can't really remember the plot of it, but Wanda and Rogue are both kidnapped and Wanda is all "Carol Danvers is my friend and I don't trust you," but Wanda apologizes in the end, as she should.

    Beatiful fragment I dindīt now about it read it but itīs really well done lol at Rogue not wanting to talk about Savage land with Wanda.

    I think this is exactly how the X-men see things today about Wanda, and this happened before with Rogue, at first Rogue wasnīt accepted even by the X-men, Carol was their friend and they didnīt want to accept Rogue after what she did to her, Rogue not only showed them she was truly sorry for what she did she also almost died protecting them a number of times and allowed Carolīs mind to take over her body when she thought her experience was needed for a mission even if this hurt her because she felt the X-men liked Carol more than her, in time she not only became a true member of the X-men and appreaciated by them but also a leader. Recently Carol has been a little more friendly towards Rogue even if it doesnīt take much for them to begin a fist fight.

    I think there just need to be an story where Wanda can show how she feels about decimation and what she would do to change it, CC didnīt really help because it wasnīt balanced, it showed the X-men as the antagonist instead of the wronged party, same with AvX and Uncanny Avengers, those stories have not really been good enough to show a redemption for Wanda because instead of showing her being sorry, they showed the X-men being wrong for being angry and thatīs the main problem, itīs like if the X-men stories showed Rogue was really a victim and Carol was wrong for being angry at her, which is not fair, itīs not what happened. So for all the characters to go on after this I think a more balanced story that takes in consideration all the characters story both the X-men and Wanda in a balanced way itīs whatīs neccesary to get this story to a close so they can go on
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-15-2020 at 01:50 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  8. #1088
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Beatiful fragment I dindīt now about it read it but itīs really well done lol at Rogue not wanting to talk about Savage land with Wanda.

    I think this is exactly how the X-men see things today about Wanda, and this happened before with Rogue, at first Rogue wasnīt accepted even by the X-men, Carol was their friend and they didnīt want to accept Rogue after what she did to her, Rogue not only showed them she was truly sorry for what she did she also almost died protecting them a number of times and allowed Carolīs mind to take over her body when she thought her experience was needed for a mission even if this hurt her because she felt the X-men liked Carol more than her, in time she not only became a true member of the X-men and appreaciated by them but also a leader. Recently Carol has been a little more friendly towards Rogue even if it doesnīt take much for them to begin a fist fight.

    I think there just need to be an story where Wanda can show how she feels about decimation and what she would do to change it, CC didnīt really help because it wasnīt balanced, it showed the X-men as the antagonist instead of the wronged party, same with AvX and Uncanny Avengers, those stories have not really been good enough to show a redemption for Wanda because instead of showing her being sorry, they showed the X-men being wrong for being angry and thatīs the main problem, itīs like if the X-men stories showed Rogue was really a victim and Carol was wrong for being angry at her, which is not fair, itīs not what happened. So for all the characters to go on after this I think a more balanced story that takes in consideration all the characters story both the X-men and Wanda in a balanced way itīs whatīs neccesary to get this story to a close so they can go on
    I don't really understand why the X-Men were portrayed all disorganized in Children's Crusade. They didn't really do anything like sure they came for Wanda, which is probably their right but they had no fucking plan, like at all. Speed of all people was making more sense than Scott. And even when Wanda was all like take me away officer, Scott was just like "Nah fuck you witch we'll never like you" it was just weird. Literally the most consistent thing about any X-Man in that run was Logan running around batting for the death of a teenage boy, and then repeatedly trying to kill said boy plus mom. At least he had a plan IDK WTF Scott had going on.

  9. #1089
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I don't really understand why the X-Men were portrayed all disorganized in Children's Crusade. They didn't really do anything like sure they came for Wanda, which is probably their right but they had no fucking plan, like at all. Speed of all people was making more sense than Scott. And even when Wanda was all like take me away officer, Scott was just like "Nah fuck you witch we'll never like you" it was just weird. Literally the most consistent thing about any X-Man in that run was Logan running around batting for the death of a teenage boy, and then repeatedly trying to kill said boy plus mom. At least he had a plan IDK WTF Scott had going on.
    I think that was because marvel itself didnīt have a plan, they only knew they needed to get Wanda back and with the Avengers so they made the X-men the bad guys, antagonist of the story even if it was totally understable for them to be angry but they were written in a way that made them seem petty, unreasonable and bloodthristy to force sympathy for Wandaīs situation but thatīs not how they normally act.

    How to explain Wolverineīs sudden change from wanting to protect Billy from Magneto on the X-men book, and this was written by Heimberg, to wanting to kill him along with Wanda on Childrenīs Crusade, to defend her to Rogue in Uncanny Avengers if not because marvel needed to make the X-men the villains to bring Wanda back with the Avengers and this narratively speaking doesnīt make sense and itīs not fair. Thatīs like if Rogue helped Carol to get her memories back in a story that showed Carol as an ungrateful person that doesnīt see how much Rogue is doing for her and she
    is so wrong for being angry still, etc. thatīs how the X-men were threated on their own books and why because of this Wandaīs actions are not seen as a redemption arc because for that to happen the X-men had to be made the villain of the story.

    In the end Rogue didnīt got to help Carol get her memories back but she still had her redemption arc and Carol was allowed to feel resentful of her while still admitting her as a hero without making her a villain in Rogueīs story, if Wandaīs story was managed like this I think we would not be still stuck talking about decimation 15 years later.





    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-15-2020 at 03:21 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  10. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    Yeah. It’s just funny that people argue with “facts on their side”, and wind up ignoring the facts that don’t gel with their narrative.
    It's not about facts, it's about feelings. The greatest sin Wanda ever committed was not being evil like they thought she was. Meanwhile, monsters like Sebastian Shaw get a pass.

  11. #1091
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's not about facts, it's about feelings. The greatest sin Wanda ever committed was not being evil like they thought she was. Meanwhile, monsters like Sebastian Shaw get a pass.
    I mean Evil is as Evil does. She killed a buncha like a BUNCHa folks. She was possessed okay, but to act like shes not culpable for MDay , or it was a criminal act for her to have been written that way while at the same time "calling out' other chars is overkill. We get it Her fans don't like how she was written in that story, she's not the only char to have gotten storyline their fans aren't too keen on.
    GrindrStone(D)

  12. #1092

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    Ive been ignoring this thread for obvious reasons but you know what, maybe a Trial would be cool. Even better if she she shows real remorse for the pain she caused and be proven not entirely guilty in the end. This just needs a closure already.

  13. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    I mean Evil is as Evil does. She killed a buncha like a BUNCHa folks. She was possessed okay, but to act like shes not culpable for MDay , or it was a criminal act for her to have been written that way while at the same time "calling out' other chars is overkill.
    Bingo. And when someone is doing bad things under those circumstances, which the X-men have no moral high ground over, it means we must judge them according to those perimeters not judge her to be evil and throw her under the prison. Where's the nuance? What about the circumstances about how she got there? Or the fact she's acting wildly out of character? You want her to put her on a trial all these will be bought to light unless you want a kangaroo court. Of course as shown in this thread her detractors don't want a trial, they want an execution for the sin of Wanda being a hero and not as evil as they want her to be. M-Day is simply an excuse to get there. It's telling the discrepency between the loathing they direct at Wanda and every other X-villain. I don't need to go to X-men who have done horrible things when these very same people cheer on villains like Apocalypse and Magneto, and not ironically.

    It's a good thing Wanda isn't evil then, isn't it? If that's all it takes to be evil, many of the high profile X-men belong in that category, this is how we know your stance relies more on personal affection rather than the actual subject of evil. Your stance on what evil is is in question, anyway, you don't think Sinister stealing Thunderbird's x-gene was bad.

    No Wanda fans ever suggested she wasn't culpable, that's a straw man. People can disagree with you without being She's Evil and she needs to die forever and She's Good She Is Perfect.

    Calling out other characters isn't overkill, it's highlighting hypocrisy. If you think what he's doing was evil don't protect others who are worse than she is, doing that highlights what she did on M-Day isn't actually why she's hated. Condemning her for genocide while cheering on Apocalypse (or anyone else who did other evil activities but since they're a X-man are are and clear because what's really important is that they're an X-man) is immensely wrong.

    We get it Her fans don't like how she was written in that story, she's not the only char to have gotten storyline their fans aren't too keen on.
    True, except the argument I was against posits that this was Wanda Being Written Correctly. Do you agree with that stance? Nobody likes their favourite characters being written badly, they like even less when people assert this as proof that she was evil all along and ignore anything that makes her the slightest bit human.

    Feelings trump too much of the anti-Wanda side, rather than facts.

  14. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    I mean Evil is as Evil does. She killed a buncha like a BUNCHa folks. She was possessed okay, but to act like shes not culpable for MDay , or it was a criminal act for her to have been written that way while at the same time "calling out' other chars is overkill. We get it Her fans don't like how she was written in that story, she's not the only char to have gotten storyline their fans aren't too keen on.
    I agree it's hypocritical to "call out" other characters that way. As I said earlier I don't think it's any more in character for Scott to refuse Wanda's offer to re-power mutants. I get that all characters only do what they do because the writers make them, but there's such a thing as plot-induced stupidity.

    I think the unusual thing about Wanda is that with a combination of Disassembled, House of M and Decimation, she was portrayed as completely to blame for murder and genocide - that's not normal OOC writing, that's something that should disqualify a character from ever being a hero again. Either the stories are wrong and she didn't do it, or she's a villain, now and forever, irredeemable. (You already know which option I take.) That doesn't normally happen with hero characters, no matter how bad they behave, there's always an "out" like possession, mind-control, the character legitimately thinking they were doing the right thing, something so their fans can argue they were right. Marvel didn't offer anything like that for Wanda until that one stupid "Life Force" thing that finally came out in a few panels of one comic in 2012. Obviously they never intended for her to be a hero again and it's kind of a miracle she made it back, but the only way for her to be a hero again is if she's absolved; Scott could still be a hero even after killing Xavier because the writers made it clear that it wasn't really his fault.

    I guess Hal Jordan is one of the few heroes who have gone through something similar, but DC gave him a whole miniseries to finally explain it all away and redeem him. Hilariously, the only time he and Wanda met was in 2004 where she complains about losing her children and Hal is all, "well, I went insane and murdered people." If only Wanda had known what was coming...



    Last edited by gurkle; 05-15-2020 at 08:02 PM.

  15. #1095
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvatore Frost View Post
    Ive been ignoring this thread for obvious reasons but you know what, maybe a Trial would be cool. Even better if she she shows real remorse for the pain she caused and be proven not entirely guilty in the end. This just needs a closure already.
    There should be a trail, and the Judge, jury and Executioner will be Apocalypse.


    Wanda will demand a trail by combat. She believes her powers to reality warp will save her, but Apocalypse is wise to her game.
    HE WILL STEAL HER BODY AND MAKE IT HIS OWN!! LONG LIVE FEMALE APOCALYPSE!!!

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