Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[GenericUsername]

lol Lawd Yes!!

lol Let 'em know!!!!!

Hmmm oh really
You know what Amnesty is right? Also technically his Mutant Massacre wouldn't count as attempted genocide against the mutant race



Dude preeetty sure no one thinks Sinister and Apocalypse are hero's perhaps in lieu of trying to sway people really read what they're posting?


Sooo that excuses her killing countless Mutants? Also I think she set her house on fire and her adopted mom died in the fire

euthanasia?

Well he was trying to mutate the human population...aaaand it was temporary aaaand only affected the 616 universe


Go the O.J. route??

She didn't set the house on fire that her mom died in and her mom is not dead. She set a barn on fire when her mutant powers manifested. And anti-Romani/anti-mutant bigots set their house on fire. It was believed that Django and Marya died in that fire. But later on both were shown to be alive. Wanda's house that was burned by anti-mutant/anti-synthezoid bigots was the one she shared with Vision. Also her mom was changed, again. So now it's Natalya and not Marya, nor Magda.

[Steel Inquisitor]

lol Lawd Yes!!

lol Let 'em know!!!!!

Hmmm oh really
You know what Amnesty is right? Also technically his Mutant Massacre wouldn't count as attempted genocide against the mutant race

Genocide's bad under every circumstance, and they don't have to succeed for it to be bad. Do you care about the Morlocks? Wanda didn't erase the mutant race, either, but you're siding with the person who has no remorse over it and did it with direct intent. He was so unconcerned about killing anyone who knew of it he wanted dead.

I know what amnesty is. However, getting it shouldn't be a "get out of jail free card" for every monster they can get their hands on who tried to murder the X-men in their super-hero careers, sometimes all at once. Which Sinister attempted with the Marauders in Carey's run. If Xavier had offered that amnesty to Wanda would you be so forgiving like you are with Sinister?

Sinister's a good example since he's technically not a mutant and stole the x-gene he's using from Thunderbird. The only reason Wanda isn't a mutant at the moment was because of rights issues between Fox and Marvel, and this'll be retconned back soon since Marvel got the X-men back.

Dude preeetty sure no one thinks Sinister and Apocalypse are hero's perhaps in lieu of trying to sway people really read what they're posting?

You're defending Sinister in this very post. Read any thread about the Crucible, Apocalypse is a rock star and whenever his villainous activities in Excalibur are bought up they're given a shrug or ignored entirely. Which is strange considering how Rogue and Betsy are popular X-men. I'm reading the intent clearly, but I am intrigued why this is the time to put on the breaks that supporting X-villains is bad, and continue defending Sinister. He ordered Pryor's death during the Morlock Massacre, when she was a civilian, and it didn't raise an eyebrow.

Sooo that excuses her killing countless Mutants? Also I think she set her house on fire and her adopted mom died in the fire

That was a random straw man to derail our talk about Wanda's history with anti-mutant bigotry. Others have gone over the details of the fire. Do you know how the twins met Magneto?

euthanasia?

It'd be difficult to find something that'd truly end Sinister.

Well he was trying to mutate the human population...aaaand it was temporary aaaand only affected the 616 universe

Remind me, what story arc was this from. Lots of "buts" for a man who tried to wipe Morlocks off the endangered species list. Did you read Carey's X-men?

Go the O.J. route??

Sinister would certainly attempt a joke at OJ if he were put on trial for his attempts at genocide.

[Zelena]

You're defending Sinister in this very post. Read any thread about the Crucible, Apocalypse is a rock star and whenever his villainous activities in Excalibur are bought up they're given a shrug or ignored entirely. Which is strange considering how Rogue and Betsy are popular X-men. I'm reading the intent clearly, but I am intrigued why this is the time to put on the breaks that supporting X-villains is bad, and continue defending Sinister. He ordered Pryor's death during the Morlock Massacre, when she was a civilian, and it didn't raise an eyebrow.

People are fascinated by power and Sinister and Apocalypse are considered as "bigger guns" than Rogue and Betsy, which I found offensive for these latter. Maybe women are considered as less important in comics…

I wonder if the feelings would have be the same if Wanda were a mutant and a man…

[Alan2099]

Well he was trying to mutate the human population...aaaand it was temporary aaaand only affected the 616 universe

I'm not sure why you think trying to force the entire human race to mutate is a good idea.
it was only temporary BECAUSE somebody stopped him. He had no intentions of it being temporary. This was going to be the new status quo and he openly looked forward t the chaos it was going to cause.
The whole thing about Wanda affecting the entire multiverse is absolute BS and you know it. This information came from Beast and Forge, who are hardly experts on the multiverse, it's directly contradicted by other times we have seen the multiverse AND the fact that mutants from other realities were immune to her powers. On top of all that, the ability to affect the entire multiverse would make her more powerful than any cosmic character we have seen before. Do you really believe Scarlet Witch is as powerful as the In-Betweener, Galactus, Eternity, or the Infinity Gauntlet?

Remind me, what story arc was this from. Lots of "buts" for a man who tried to wipe Morlocks off the endangered species list. Did you read Carey's X-men?

Uncanny X-men 379 and 380.

[JKtheMac]

If she's not a mutant Krakoa has no right to persecute her

If she's a mutant Krakoa's memo is to pardon all mutants for their previous crimes

The queen will be free either way.

Personally, I suspect the hard line taken on whether she is a mutant taken by Hickman is part of a long play to re-establish her as a mutant.

I can see it now. The easiest way to do it is to put her on trial and one strand of defence comes from someone who stands neutral to time and reality manipulation (pick your watcher analog).

All they would need to say is that when she said “No More Mutants” she effectively changed reality around herself and made it such that she was no longer a mutant. This then explains why the newer chronology doesn’t quite add-up and it sends Wanda into a new (or yet another) arc of self-discovery where she changes reality back to how it should be.

Of course, none of this would make her guilty or not guilty, but it could help with the defence to demonstrate she was equally a victim of the situation. Plus becoming a mutant again would give Krakoa a dilemma. All very juicy storytelling fodder.

[BroHomo]

Genocide's bad under every circumstance, and they don't have to succeed for it to be bad. Do you care about the Morlocks? Wanda didn't erase the mutant race, either, but you're siding with the person who has no remorse over it and did it with direct intent. He was so unconcerned about killing anyone who knew of it he wanted dead.

Dude. Obviously.
but the Morlock Massacre is an example of attempted Genocide against the Morlocks not all of mutantkind

I know what amnesty is. However, getting it shouldn't be a "get out of jail free card" for every monster they can get their hands on who tried to murder the X-men in their super-hero careers, sometimes all at once.

That's literally what it means tho. And not every monster...just mutant monsters lol

If Xavier had offered that amnesty to Wanda would you be so forgiving like you are with Sinister?

Dude No one is forgiving of Sinister....not sure why you are ignoring that bit of info. Would I be cool with Wanda having Amnesty? I def wouldnt trust her ever if I were one of the mutants. It woulda been cool had she came to Xavier after KraKoa was formed....as a sign of peace and penance buuuut she didnt sooooo

Sinister's a good example since he's technically not a mutant and stole the x-gene he's using from Thunderbird. The only reason Wanda isn't a mutant at the moment was because of rights issues between Fox and Marvel, and this'll be retconned back soon since Marvel got the X-men back.

Well this sinister is a mutant clone of Sinister..sooo hes always had an X-Gene. Not sure whyyyy the movieverse is being brought up...

You're defending Sinister in this very post. Read any thread about the Crucible, Apocalypse is a rock star and whenever his villainous activities in Excalibur are bought up they're given a shrug or ignored entirely. Which is strange considering how Rogue and Betsy are popular X-men. I'm reading the intent clearly, but I am intrigued why this is the time to put on the breaks that supporting X-villains is bad, and continue defending Sinister.

Correcting wrong and false statements/accusations isnt in defense of a person. If anything its a defense against fake facts.

People are fascinated by power and Sinister and Apocalypse are considered as "bigger guns" than Rogue and Betsy, which I found offensive for these latter. Maybe women are considered as less important in comics…

lol Dude there's no other superhero franshise where the women are as celebrated and powerful than the Xmen. Buuuuut if you wanna keep up that narrative...go head.

I wonder if the feelings would have be the same if Wanda were a mutant and a man…

Yeah...probably

[Steel Inquisitor]

Dude. Obviously.
but the Morlock Massacre is an example of attempted Genocide against the Morlocks not all of mutantkind

This is a very bizarre response when the subject is of genocide. Given how marginalised Morlocks are within the mutant community in Marvel I'd have thought you'd be more emotionally invested in their safety. Maybe you're not a fan of Marrow, or Callisto so their passing wouldn't affect you.

That's literally what it means tho. And not every monster...just mutant monsters lol

It's how it was used that I was disagreeing with. Mutants can't be monsters in your eyes? Intriguing.

Dude No one is forgiving of Sinister....not sure why you are ignoring that bit of info. Would I be cool with Wanda having Amnesty? I def wouldnt trust her ever if I were one of the mutants. It woulda been cool had she came to Xavier after KraKoa was formed....as a sign of peace and penance buuuut she didnt sooooo

Your response in the prior post suggests otherwise, and so does this one with your first paragraph. I know this is comic books so it's necessary to not view everything as emotionally "real" but your reactions between what Wanda and Sinister doing is startling. Would you be so lenient had Sinister not been in Krakoa, I wonder? You don't trust the woman who was having the worst day of her life and was a veteran super-hero and had remorse for what she did but a man who does the same thing who had no regrets and is someone who is defined by being an edgy super-villain is ok.

When did Sinister ever do any penance for Krakoa? He's still a super-villain and everyone knows it. Even Exodus does. But you're right, she's not on Team Krakoa so she must therefore be bad.

Well this sinister is a mutant clone of Sinister..sooo hes always had an X-Gene. Not sure whyyyy the movieverse is being brought up...

Semantics. Sinister was "born" in the 18th century as a human transformed by Apocalypse. He's not a mutant. The context was for why Wanda wasn't a mutant, you know what I was getting at. It's known that Sinister can possess his cloned bodies. His theatrics on Krakoa are an act akin to the Joker. But You this.

Correcting wrong and false statements/accusations isnt in defense of a person. If anything its a defense against fake facts.

Nothing I've said has been false. It is possible to do what you saying as a neutral observer but that's not what you've been doing. When accountability comes for Sinister it's all "but.." and when it comes to Wanda she's got to go. No questions asked.

lol Dude there's no other superhero franshise where the women are as celebrated and powerful than the Xmen. Buuuuut if you wanna keep up that narrative...go head.

It's not a narrative when it's the truth. You don't want Quicksilver's head on a platter.

Yeah...probably

Yes, definitely. M-Day involved Quicksilver, there are no threads calling for his trial - all the attention is on Scarlet Witch. Maybe Wanda should have tried lying that it was a Skull who did M-Day like he did and nobody would hate her anymore.

[Havok83]

Yes, definitely. M-Day involved Quicksilver, there are no threads calling for his trial - all the attention is on Scarlet Witch. Maybe Wanda should have tried lying that it was a Skull who did M-Day like he did and nobody would hate her anymore.

No people would still hate her

[CRaymond]

I don't take comics seriously.

[Zelena]

lol Dude there's no other superhero franshise where the women are as celebrated and powerful than the Xmen. Buuuuut if you wanna keep up that narrative...go head.

Women were celebrated in Claremont's world.
In Hickman's world, it is between Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse…

Yes, there's Moira who once a good woman, now so ruthless and unemotional that she is unrecognizable. She's just used as a plot device and will, probably, end under a glass dome to be sure the universe won't reset. Who needs her opinion? What will she do? Threatening suicide?
Hickman's run is the revenge of patriarchy. (What are you doing, Jean? Preparing the meal while the men are talking?)

Betsy is one of the rare gems that shines in this bleak landscape.

You're shining too…

[Veitha]

Women were celebrated in Claremont's world.
In Hickman's world, it is between Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse…

Yes, there's Moira who once a good woman, now so ruthless and unemotional that she is unrecognizable. She's just used as a plot device and will, probably, end under a glass dome to be sure the universe won't reset. Who needs her opinion? What will she do? Threatening suicide?
Hickman's run is the revenge of patriarchy. (What are you doing, Jean? Preparing the meal while the men are talking?)

Betsy is one of the rare gems that shines in this bleak landscape.



You're shining too…

You're not even reading the current comics, how do you know how the women are treated.

Emma, Kitty, Moira and Betsy are all powerful women in positions of power in this new status quo.

[Zelena]

You're not even reading the current comics, how do you know how the women are treated.

Emma, Kitty, Moira and Betsy are all powerful women in positions of power in this new status quo.

Well, tell me, do they go with the flow or do they show any personality? I only saw that from Betsy… But you're right, I haven't seen everything.

[houndsofluv]

Well, tell me, do they go with the flow or do they show any personality? I only saw that from Betsy… But you're right, I haven't seen everything.

kitty killed a woman (Deathstrike clone) by phasing a pillow thru her heart then solidifying. my personal favourite means of showing personality and going w/ the flow lol

jokes aside, if anything's shining thru DOX I'd say its personality. Characters have for the most point felt on point and in the right voice. The "robotic dialogue" criticisms were only really applicable to one section of one issue which was primarily for expository purposes but I digress lol

didn't even realize how off-topic I was being until I read the thread title.........whew but my words stand
kim on tha plane.jpg

[Zelena]

kitty killed a woman (Deathstrike clone) by phasing a pillow thru her heart then solidifying. my personal favourite means of showing personality and going w/ the flow lol

Is killing someone having a personality? Not the one I would usually associated with Kitty Pryde… But this girl seems to be long lost.

To be more in topic, I would say Wanda wasn't herself when she said 'No more mutants'… Emotional turmoil and all…
The Krakoans don't have this excuse, luv…

[Ferro]

Is killing someone having a personality? Not the one I would usually associated with Kitty Pryde… But this girl seems to be long lost.

To be more in topic, I would say Wanda wasn't herself when she said 'No more mutants'… Emotional turmoil and all…
The Krakoans don't have this excuse, luv…

the krakoans are a nation hence above simple black or white justifications of morality, instead being in a pragmatic grey, and then each individual on their own "moral standart", but you compare krakoa to other nations.
wanda maximooff commited genocide and has a nerve to call herself a hero, a paragon of virtue and godnes as we see in uncanny avengers belives she is owed.