Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[Steel Inquisitor]

The issue is that she just apologised and it ended there. She didn't face any consequence for her actions if not Rogue or the X-Men being mad at her. The Avengers were angry, but never betrayed Wanda like some X-men did Scott after the P5 incident (and the Avengers, especially She-Hulk, did have plenty of reasons to be mad at her, since it was her fault for their team being dismantled and even worse stuff happening, and still she wa).

The fact Rogue and the X-men (who tried to lynch her in Children's Crusade in front of the Avengers, no less) are severe consequences for her actions and they had no time for nuance when it wasn't one of their own doing this. Had she been an X-man the position would have been reversed, as has been shon again and again. That they dint stick din't mean there wasn't any bad consensus for her, inside and outside the Marvel universe. The PF incident isn't as good as you think, only Scott got consequences for that and today he's moved on like it never happened. Even Jean is more affected when the Phoenix possessed her and she was in a coma at the time. The X-men didn't betray anyone, the PF betrayed them, on multiple occasions. AS far as I know Magik never got any consequences for exiling Rogue to a world and left her there forever. Namor got some consequences for Wakanda but it's hardly like he didn't deserve it.

Reducing what happened in Avengers Dissembled as "she did it" is simplifying a very complicated situation to a black and white state to make Wada look as bad as possible. You'd never do this to an X-man in that position, and they've done this more than once. Including in this very paragraph.

No one denied her mental issues, but she seeked that power and Cyclops did not, it was Stark that forced it onto him. And at the end of the day, Cyclops paid for his actions and she didn't. It all comes back to this.

Numerous people have denied her mental issues, to make her look like she wanted the consequences and that includes this sentence. What people do with absolute power is not defined by whether "they wanted it." We know powers like this compromised her mental state, but stances like that make her look like this was her entire plan from the start. This is what you want us to believe Wanda did



This is what Wanda actually did.

Cyclops didn't go back to his family. Read the comics. He was hated almost until Hickman. Post AvX the X-men didn't want him anymore if not the most loyals to him, like Magik and Emma. Post Secret Wars he was mutant Hitler. He didn't have it easy at all. Wanda, in the meantime, was living her dream life in East Europe and when she came back she was welcomed back into the Avengers.

I was talking about Hickman. Of course Magik and Emma would want him at that stage, they were in the same boat as he was and had their own demons. You're making it sound like Scot never left prison or got his life together. This is Scott now

https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/...loganscott.jpg

His life doesn't look ruined to me.

Your argument about Scott being happy now falls flat. It's been what, 8 years since AvX? And he paid for his "sins", if we can call having a shard of the Phoenix being forced inside you by someone else a sin. And it also falls flat because you don't want Wanda to be punished at all but you want Scott to suffer forever because of AvX?

It's been 15 years since House of M, paying for her "sins," which are in the same category as Scott's but you think they're both have nothing in common, which include dying. Scott went to prison, Wanda got murdered painfully by a high profile X-man. I've said before that i was open to Wanda being punished, but this keeps getting ignored for convenience. So much keeps on getting "lost" in conversations when Wanda supporters make it, but this doesn't happen to the opposing side. Since when is wanting justice served bad? Justice which seems to tilt in the X-men's favour when they do something bad. But an Avenger? They have to suffer for eternity for the indignity of being an Avenger.

Wanda has been doing nothing for mutants for years, it's not just single stances. And mutant-hating crimes are different than facing supervillains or defending the Earth. The market thing was also a joke to point out that she (I know, I'm repetitive) she got out of HoM w/o paying any consequences, she could just roam free and do whatever she wanted.

Moving the goal posts so everything good must be for mutants, which is a noble cause but it ignores the context of when the X-men aren't around when other super-heroes are protecting the world or under siege. Everyone should stop protecting the world to protect mutant kind and let their own villains destroy them while the X-men don't lift a finger? How many times do the X-men get involved helping other super-heroes or humanity when there isn't a mutant involved or one of their mutant hating enemies? They'll sit in their mansions while the Spider-man is being set up for murder and he's supposed to be their friend.

The part about the pre HoM problems being the same as the post HoM porblems is just not true and it sounds like you didn't read comics post-Decimation. Their entire species was at 198. The X-Men had never faced an army of Nimrods, Bastion had never enclosed the X-Men in a force field after having killed all their teleporters and leaving them to die with the Nimrods in there. They never had newborn babies being burned alive to prevent mutant births. Show me a scan of Claremont having a bus full of students exploding in front of Xavier's and then we can talk. The stakes were so much higher after Decimation and because of Wanda. You downplaying it and calling it another day at the office doesn't change facts. Post Decimation the X-Men had 10+ years of dark stories because of that situation. It wasn't just a wounded teammate, it was death, traumas and losing limbs. I could make a full list for each of the main X-men about how traumatized they got after Decimation. They were under immense pressure, and they drifted from Xavier's dream because it had become impraticable. Let's thank Wanda and Cassandra Nova for that.

Of course it's true, have you read X-men comics before Decimation? I know what the Decimation status quo is and read comics during that period. The X-men has faced all those enemies before, and you're acting like the X-men never fought bastian before Decimation. O:ZT was him at the height of his power. Mutants were under threat during Claremont's run, its why the Morlock's moved to the sewers. The stakes being higher is true but you assume because of that everything was fine before that when it's not true. Things like that would have happened without M-Day. Wanda did impact that, except you beam her for everything they do when the circumstances for what Wanda did weren't that simple. You're not giving her any leniency you'd give any X-man in that situation. I'm not downplaying anything. X-men having dark stories isn't something new, either. They had Dark Phoenix and Mutant massacre in the 80's. The X-men were traumatised long before the 2000's, they had been through numerous bleak situations and lost people. Wanda is a mutant who has been traumatised in the past for being a mutant, as well. This excludes the trauma which was inflicted by their fellow mutants, like Apocalypse (Cable, Archangel), Sabretooth (Wolverine, Psylocke), Sinister (Scott and Jean), and so on. The X-men have suffered death and losing parts f themselves before. Death got so bad it became a joke to fandom and the comics themselves. Nova's a mutant but she gets less heat than Wanda does and we know she's genuinely evil. She's another evil mutant villain who gets to escape justice while Wanda, the super-hero, is held to a higher standard. I'm surprised Krakoa hasn't welcomed Nova in their ranks yet, they took out all the stops for Shaw and he was crucial in the development of Nimrod.

So you're saying that resurrecting the dead and giving the victims of Wanda's Spell their powers back is not worth it because it makes them look like hypocrites? Well ok.

Wanda tried to give their powers back, Scott told her to not do it - why ins't Scott being held accountable for this? Why haven't the X-men tried helping Wanda do this? Where's Magik and Jean? Of course I'd be ok with the mutants who died from M-day be bought back to life, but it's not like the X-men are keen on helping her do this and what's the status on them in krkaoa? It's not necessary to bring the back if Xavier's resurrected them by now. That is if Krakoa doesn't get retconned into being plant people, of course.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

But that doesn't cover the question I asked

I’m quite used to having a lot of my questions go unanswered. ::shrug::

[Voices From the Eyrie]

Isn't Sebastian Shaw a mutant? Didn't his corporation construct Sentinels? Didn't he make an exception for himself in their programming, but not for any other mutants? Wasn't his motive for doing this simply profit?

That's colder than just about anything else in this thread.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Isn't Sebastian Shaw a mutant? Didn't his corporation construct Sentinels? Didn't he make an exception for himself in their programming, but not for any other mutants? Wasn't his motive for doing this simply profit?

That's colder than just about anything else in this thread.

He’s a man, though.

[Zelena]

Nova's a mutant but she gets less heat than Wanda does and we know she's genuinely evil. She's another evil mutant villain who gets to escape justice while Wanda, the super-hero, is held to a higher standard. I'm surprised Krakoa hasn't welcomed Nova in their ranks yet, they took out all the stops for Shaw and he was crucial in the development of Nimrod.

Cassandra Nova isn't technically a mutant though — which I find strange, with her powers and having a mutant brother — and if I remember well, she got an education after all she did (or a brainwashing)…

The difference between Cassandra Nova and Wanda is that Cassandra doesn't have a fan club and Wanda has one. Wanda is much loved by some people and that infuriates those who don't want to leave M-day behind.

So, it isn't so much that they want Wanda saying: "Oh, I'm a bad person, please, forgive me…" that they want Wanda's fans to admit she is a bad person and join them in this strange mourning of fictional characters… that mostly aren't dead, just depowered.

It must certainly very strongly resonate, it is an injustice: something has been taken from them and… well, real life is a succession of definitive losses. Learning to heal seems to me a better approach, more educational. But comics have lost this function a long time ago…

[Steel Inquisitor]

Cassandra Nova isn't technically a mutant though — which I find strange, with her powers and having a mutant brother — and if I remember well, she got an education after all she did (or a brainwashing)…

Technically she is a mutant, her claim to fame is being Xavier's twin from the womb, but the reactions from the Genosha incident bypass this as if she were a normal human or don't include her as if someone like Trask himself pulled that trigger. Nova is an exceptional case, though. However, she's a character in the X-men so everything must be really, really convoluted.

The difference between Cassandra Nova and Wanda is that Cassandra doesn't have a fan club and Wanda has one. Wanda is much loved by some people and that infuriates those who don't want to leave M-day behind.

So, it isn't so much that they want Wanda saying: "Oh, I'm a bad person, please, forgive me…" that they want Wanda's fans to admit she is a bad person and join them in this strange mourning of fictional characters… that mostly aren't dead, just depowered.

I think you're right. That's a big part of it, another part is that they read House of M and formed an option of what the character described about her rather than researching what she was before this or acknowledging how House of M, Children's Crusade and Avengers: Disassembled still left wiggle room for Wanda to have extenuating circumstances with what she did. Anything that showed Wanda wasn't doing everything under her normal self was ignored since it ruins the narrative that she's evil. She can't have depth or they misunderstood what happened she must be evil. Maybe its got to with pride, they don't want to admit that they made a mistake condemning this character. It's personal. For some reason. Add in the Avenger hate as if they were as bad as Orchis for simply being humans.

It must certainly very strongly resonate, it is an injustice: something has been taken from them and… well, real life is a succession of definitive losses. Learning to heal seems to me a better approach, more educational. But comics have lost this function a long time ago…

Yup. On the last part, I disagree. In real life and in comics books this occurs, including in the X-titles and they get it. Some of the fan favourites have had identical experiences and they supported them without blinking. Some even think when they went over the edge they weren't wrong.

[Havok83]

Technically she is a mutant, her claim to fame is being Xavier's twin from the womb, but the reactions from the Genosha incident bypass this as if she were a normal human or don't include her as if someone like Trask himself pulled that trigger. Nova is an exceptional case, though. However, she's a character in the X-men so everything must be really, really convoluted.
.

Technically she isnt a mutant or human. That was plot point in Morrison's run. She's an alien of the Mummudrai species

[BroHomo]

Technically she isnt a mutant or human. That was plot point in Morrison's run. She's an alien of the Mummudrai species

lol right...like if a person hasn't followed that conclusion the whole conversation is moot

Isn't Sebastian Shaw a mutant? Didn't his corporation construct Sentinels? Didn't he make an exception for himself in their programming, but not for any other mutants? Wasn't his motive for doing this simply profit?

That's colder than just about anything else in this thread.

Lol How is that colder than ordering the deaths of millions of people?

I’m quite used to having a lot of my questions go unanswered. ::shrug::

Soooo instead of Just telling me your Answer, or Ignoring my question, you're telling me you're ignoring the question?

He’s a man, though.

Lol why does everything about Wanda begin/end with a man ??

Technically she is a mutant, her claim to fame is being Xavier's twin from the womb.

lol Yeaaaah that's not it. it's killing 16 million people :/

[BroHomo]

edited post

[Steel Inquisitor]

lol right...like if a person hasn't followed that conclusion the whole conversation is moot

Nova began her life in utero as Xavier's twin sister.

Lol How is that colder than ordering the deaths of millions of people?

The point was that he left them do that while Shaw hid from their programming. What'd you think the government sentinels were doing? This is how the Day of Future Past timeline came to be. Why don't think he's a traitor to his race for doing this?

Lol why does everything about Wanda begin/end with a man ??

Because of double standards.

lol Yeaaaah that's not it. it's killing 16 million people :/

It's both. And its not like killing mutants is a crime Krkaoa cares about, they give every mutant villain a free pass. They couldn't get Shaw on board fast enough. You don't like Nimrod? He's a key part in allowing him be a thing.

[CoCoBandz]

Nova began her life in utero as Xavier's twin sister.

But it's not a mutant...

[Steel Inquisitor]

But it's not a mutant...

Her body in the womb was based on Xavier's. Mutants have had stranger appearances, like Danger.

[Havok83]

Nova began her life in utero as Xavier's twin sister.

Again she isnt a mutant nor human

Her body in the womb was based on Xavier's. Mutants have had stranger appearances, like Danger.

Danger isnt a mutant either

[CoCoBandz]

Her body in the womb was based on Xavier's. Mutants have had stranger appearances, like Danger.

Sorry, but no.

[Zelena]

Again she isnt a mutant nor human

It is a point that needs clarification: how can a creature be Xavier's sister without being neither mutant nor human?

However, I don't see the sacrilege in Cassandra being a mutant despite the fact she hated all the mutants, she had a special name and a stranger fate…