Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[Veitha]

Same story and all happened within the same 24 hour time span. Again she paid for anything she do so its moot.

You are simply ignoring facts now. He was arrested and there was years worth of story where the superhero community blasted him for what he had done, despite being possessed by the PF. IA that a trial should have happened but Wolverine nor Steve Rogers ensured his safety so that would could happen. They left him in a prison where he was nearly murdered and he had to leave to protect his life.


thats where we disagree bc she was not punished at all.


Rachel did for years as did Jean outside of the time she was targeted and driven insane. Cyclops couldnt control it bc he wasnt meant to. He did not go into that story wanting to seize the power for himself. It was forced on him. Hope was the intended host and things were rectified once she had access to the PF as Scott originally intended.

I don't get where people got this idea about Scott wanting the Phoenix for himself lol. The revisionism in this thread regarding Scott amazes me. Like I think people are only reading a panel every 10 pages or just looking at the pictures.

[BroHomo]

I don't get where people got this idea about Scott wanting the Phoenix for himself lol. The revisionism in this thread regarding Scott amazes me. Like I think people are only reading a panel every 10 pages or just looking at the pictures.

Just looking at the covers of the books?

[Veitha]

Just looking at the covers of the books?

That could explain it.

[People Of The Earth]

These are not facts, this is aaall your headcanon. The Phoenix Force was possessing him, there is no evidence to say that they could just tell the Force yo get out. You're literally making it up.

Oh, am I ? This is aaall my headcanon you say?




You're welcome.

He was possessed duh.

Cyclops was perfectly fine at that point of the story and you know it, him and the Phoenix Five couldn't have achieved half of what they were doing if they hadn't been, though he was bound to lose control like his comrades down the line.
The Phoenix do that after all.

You literally just said he was possessed.

You are not reading what I'm saying, purposefully or not.
Cyclops was possessed yet in control of his actions at this point of the AvX story.
Wanda was possessed and not in control of her actions the whole duration of Disassembled and Decimation.



Is that clearer than clear this time around?

That's a big thing to blame her for.

As I said, you can blame her for trusting Doom in the first place, sure, though as I pointed out it's posturing of the highest order to blame her for that when it's been a long practice in the superhero community to seek out help from villains, something being done right now by the X-Men with said Doctor Doom.
Highly hypocritical.

She and Doom caused M'Day at the end of the day.

No, the Life Force did, see the panel above.
"It possessed Wanda AND transformed her into an entity with the reality-shaping abilities of a god."

Words have meanings, I pointed that out yesterday with your former phrasing of a point you were making.

She seeked knowledge that she knew was dangerous and she reached out to Doom to do so,

Which, again, is a fair blame to make regarding this entire affair, though as I pointed, is also hypocritical given this kind of practice is a long held practice from superheroes, the X-Men front and center.
And for the record me pointing that out doesn't mean I like this practice, I don't like said practice at all.

and in the end there was a genocide.

Caused by the Life Force, yes.

If I ask a gangster for help in doing something and people get killed while we're doing it, I'm still to blame.

Not if you're unconscious the entire time you are doing this thing, which was the case of Wanda.
She wasn't in the driver' seat.

Wanda did it out of completely selfish reasons, unlike Kate.

Wanting one's children back is a completely normal and understandable feeling for a parent to have, which is why I'll never blame Wanda Maximoff for wanting to get her twin children back.

Kate however? First of all, she's using her "friendship" with Franklin Richards to try and facilitate him dropping his family to join Krakoa as a recruit (a policy completely assumed by Krakoa's leadership by the way), something that disregard his and his family's interests.
Secondly, the fact she bargained Franklin with Doom is pathetic no matter the motives. Even if Franklin was her son, which he's not, it would still be top to bottom immoral.

And why do you want to redirect lol?

I don't, I was just amused by the faux-outrage showed around Wanda going to Doom when the X-Men themselves go to him (cf Pryde), or to villains even worse than him (cf Krakoa's leadership).

[Veitha]

He was possessed and talking all crazy like! They were all getting super power hungry because of the Force. You were making it seem as if Cyclops wanted the Phoenix from the beginning in his plan while it was Stark that did it and be became drunk with Phoenix power, which was enhancing all of their personality traits to extremes.

Wanda is not be held accountable because she was possessed, but Scott is?

Also, I'm tired of this convo lol see ya when Exodus finds Wanda.

[People Of The Earth]

No its not a what if story but it started by Logan telling the Avengers lies about how the PF is nthing but a destructive force. That was NOT Cyclops' experience with it nor Logan's for that matter. The Avengers were motivated by a 'What If' rhetoric which ignored the positive experience the Xmen have had with the force through Jean and Rachel.

Cyclops himself admitted to Cable - the real Cable - he didn't know a lot of things about the Phoenix, and how dangerous it was.
Not only that, but he had lived through several phoenix meltdowns so he knew for a fact that the Phoenix is something to be wary of.
Cyclops based his strategy around his faith in the mutant messiah, Hope, and into the shaky vision of a future OG Cable shared with him. Those are not tangibles enough to risk the lives of 6 billions people, sorry.

As for the Avengers? Yes, they could and should have sought out more sources of knowledge about the Phoenix, but it wouldn't have changed their strategy one bit: at the beginning of the story, the Phoenix was obliterating inhabited worlds on its path toward Earth, those were tangible, hard facts that couldn't be shuffled aside or ignored regardless of one's knowledge of the Phoenix.

Thats awfully convenient but again that goes back to the point that it wasnt Scott's experience with the thing and wouldnt have been something that would have clouded his judgement as he prepared Hope for the PF.

Someone not named Grey? Because thats what happens when someone who isnt supposed to wield its power has it forced onto them.

Well, those were the context the story began with, the Phoenix was traveling toward Earth while destroying inhabited worlds on its path. And I disagree, again Cyclops was fully aware of how dangerous the Phoenix was, he just chose to ignore it out of faith in Hope.

Possibly but there was enough evidence suggesting Hope had a connection to the PF (which she did) and ultimately Scott was right about this.

No, he was not because if it wasn't for Wanda's intervention at the end of the story, everyone would have died to Phoenix-powered Hope.
Cyclops had no clue Hope alone wouldn't be enough to control the Phoenix Force.

Im not gonna pretend as if he didnt lose his way once he had the PF forced onto him. That was never supposed to happen

If it hadn't been for the Pax Utopia stunt, people would have been fine with the P5 imo. They overreached with that part of their plan.

I know you and others want to deflect and make this all about Scott but this thread isnt about him and AvX. There are countless other threads for that if you want to ressurect them.

I'll speak for myself, not for the other posters, but the only reason I bring up Scott Summers in here, or Jean Grey, or any hero who's been possessed by some cosmic force in their career is to dress the parallels or highlights the contrasts existing between them and her.
That's the sole reason why I'm speaking of AvX right now, in this thread.

Back to Wanda. Burn the bitch

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I think Wanda should get a fair, independant trial regarding those events, because she would get to walk away free from this noise afterward, and us too by extension.

[Frobisher]

If Wanda is no longer a mutant she can take Human Drug M, which will hopefully help with her mental illness and prevent any further embarrassing mass reality altering incidents.

[autbey]

She did it and then she didn't because editorial wanted to sanitize the character because of the emceeyoo.

[Alan2099]

You were making it seem as if Cyclops wanted the Phoenix from the beginning in his plan while it was Stark that did it and be became drunk with Phoenix power, which was enhancing all of their personality traits to extremes.

Cyclops may not have wanted the Phoenix for himself, but he did want the Phoenix to be somebody that would listen to him and do whatever he wanted. It's not a huge difference.

As for the Avengers? Yes, they could and should have sought out more sources of knowledge about the Phoenix,

They got their knowledge from Wolverine, who had both been there for the original Phoenix and Dark Phoenix sags and had once been Phoenix himself. There really aren't many more knowledgeable sources.

Possibly but there was enough evidence suggesting Hope had a connection to the PF (which she did) and ultimately Scott was right about this.

Scott was right about Hope having a connection. Other than that, he had no real plan or idea what was going to happen and the world could have easily been burned to ash. The fact that Phoenix was able to restore mutants and not end the world depended heavily on the involvement of the Avengers, Scarlet Witch in particular.

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I think Wanda should get a fair, independant trial regarding those events, because she would get to walk away free from this noise afterward, and us too by extension.

I'm still kind of curious who you would get for an impartial jury for the trial. I'm pretty sure you're not allowed on a jury if you've personally tried to kill the person on trial.

[Havok83]

They got their knowledge from Wolverine, who had both been there for the original Phoenix and Dark Phoenix sags and had once been Phoenix himself. There really aren't many more knowledgeable sources.
.

I dont believe Wolverine had been a Phoenix up to that point. The issue with Wolverine that he was selective in what he told. he only highlighted the bad (DPS) which painted a negative picture bc he hated Scott at the time and wanted to fuel the Avengers against him. Just a few years prior, he saw a Phoenix Jean save him in Endsong as well as Planet X. He didnt mention any of that. He was incredibly biased and a better source for the Avengers to go to was Storm, who was also an active member at the time. Wolverine instigated things and he was the wrong person to mediate anything considering his personal issues with Scott at the time.

[Devaishwarya]

Across the board...Nobody who orchestrated AvX knew anything about what they were doing or why they were doing it. Not the editors and certainly not the writers.

[Alan2099]

I dont believe Wolverine had been a Phoenix up to that point.

Wolverine became Phoenix in the Spider-man/Wolverine mini that came out the year before AvsX.

[Glio]

Aaron has written so many people with the Phoenix that it is difficult for to remember everyone.

He has an obsession.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Scott was right about Hope having a connection. Other than that, he had no real plan or idea what was going to happen and the world could have easily been burned to ash. The fact that Phoenix was able to restore mutants and not end the world depended heavily on the involvement of the Avengers, Scarlet Witch in particular.

That's not supposed to be important, they're not mutants or X-men.

I'm still kind of curious who you would get for an impartial jury for the trial. I'm pretty sure you're not allowed on a jury if you've personally tried to kill the person on trial.

They don't believe in juries or lawyers in Krakoa, they don't even pass muster for kangaroo courts. Which is shocking considering how many of the mutants in the government come from Western countries with these concepts. Another sign that Something Is Wrong with Xavier and the X-men.

[Ferro]

Eh, im not sure wanda's inocence is that additive, M-Day's impact is very important for the history and lore of the x-men, that event spawned 7 years or so of stories so im not sure a trial to remove that and it's drama would be benefitial to the x-men, and wanda isn't affected by it anymore since the avengers never really cared about her actions, it never really affected her.

It's more important for one side than the other, and one side is an entire sucessfull line of books and the other is a character that hasn't been wanted on the main avenger titles for over a decade and is hanging on a thread of relevancy by the mcu.

It's a very simple decision of wich side can be trown under the bus without much care, wanda is less important than M-Day