Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[ExodusCloak]

Which brings us back to the fact that if Wanda was guilty of "No More Mutants" then she can never be a hero again, not so much because of what happened in House of M, but the years of misery and horror that X-Men books wrote about after the Decimation happened.

I ain't giving up my favorite Marvel hero because of stuff that happened in books she wasn't in, as a result of something she would never do. If Doom did it or Chthon or whoever, all the Decimation stories are exactly the same (since they had nothing to do with Wanda and would have been the same no matter how it happened) and nothing is lost. If Wanda did it, her fans lose the character. Seems better all around if she didn't do it or if HoM is just dismissed as a writer's mistake.

I think its more insulting for writers to try and wave of 12 years of stories like that. Also keep in mind those stories went out of there way to say there was no outside influence e.g. Dr strange in HoM. They're pretty much locked in that it is Wanda

[Veitha]

How is this still going after the crisis that she's causing in Empyre lol.

If an X-Men had raised 16 million zombies and caused an alien species to be zombified we'd hear screaming and screeching all day.

[misty101]

If the books are gonna blame Wanda for all the misery caused House of M, it'd only be fair to hold Mags and Professor X responsible for all the havoc caused by Onslaught. They paved the way for a near planetary takeover by Zemo, after all

Um, Xavier literally went to prison. He was completely held responsible for everything.

[gurkle]

I think its more insulting for writers to try and wave of 12 years of stories like that. Also keep in mind those stories went out of there way to say there was no outside influence e.g. Dr strange in HoM. They're pretty much locked in that it is Wanda

That just goes to show how badly Wanda was treated by writers, who seemed to want her to be ruined as a hero. Whereas (again) the writers protected Cyclops by showing clearly that killing Xavier was not his fault and anyone who accused him of being a villain or a murderer was wrong.

I don't see the problem with hand waving stories that were so toxic for my favorite character. Again, "Doom did it" may be silly, but wiping out mutants as part of a master plan would be in character for Doom, while it's out of character for Wanda Maximoff. X-fans lose nothing if she didn't do it, while if she did it, Wanda fans lose everything.

How is this still going after the crisis that she's causing in Empyre lol.

If an X-Men had raised 16 million zombies and caused an alien species to be zombified we'd hear screaming and screeching all day.

Not from me, you wouldn't. I don't hold characters responsible for things that are totally out of character for them.

Granted, between HoM, Remender's mutant teleportation, and now Hickman's mutant-zombie thing, I totally understand feeling that the writers have made "Wanda screws everything up for millions of mutants" a part of her character. But it's difficult for a fan of a character to believe that. It would be like if writers told us that Jean routinely eats planets. I don't see why a Jean fan would accept that.

[Havok83]

That just goes to show how badly Wanda was treated by writers, who seemed to want her to be ruined as a hero. Whereas (again) the writers protected Cyclops by showing clearly that killing Xavier was not his fault and anyone who accused him of being a villain or a murderer was wrong.

I don't see the problem with hand waving stories that were so toxic for my favorite character. Again, "Doom did it" may be silly, but wiping out mutants as part of a master plan would be in character for Doom, while it's out of character for Wanda Maximoff. X-fans lose nothing if she didn't do it, while if she did it, Wanda fans lose everything.



Not from me, you wouldn't. I don't hold characters responsible for things that are totally out of character for them.

Granted, between HoM, Remender's mutant teleportation, and now Hickman's mutant-zombie thing, I totally understand feeling that the writers have made "Wanda screws everything up for millions of mutants" a part of her character. But it's difficult for a fan of a character to believe that. It would be like if writers told us that Jean routinely eats planets. I don't see why a Jean fan would accept that.

The thing in Empyre most definitely feels in character for Wanda. There was no malice on her part. She tried to do good, but ended up screwing up bc she was dealing with magic she didnt fully understand. Thats like classic Wanda

[gurkle]

The thing in Empyre most definitely feels in character for Wanda. There was no malice on her part. She tried to do good, but ended up screwing up bc she was dealing with magic she didnt fully understand. Thats like classic Wanda

Yes, I agree with that. I don't think Wanda being a well-intentioned screwup is alien to her character, even though I'd prefer if she wasn't written that way, I accept that it is something she might do.

I sometimes talk in this thread like anything my favorite character does is out of character unless it's exactly how I want it. But I don't think that - it's only really extreme stuff like No More Mutants or Cyclops abandoning his wife and kid.

[jwatson]

I just want them to be made mutants again. When wanda said no more mutants every last member in her family was depowered, Magneto, Lorna, Pietro, so it stands to reason in an act to keep her own powers her magic turned her from mutant to something else and because pietro was her twin when he was rempowered it was the same way she was. Yes, i'm grasping at every straw. Magneto needs ALL his children back. lol

[jwatson]

The thing in Empyre most definitely feels in character for Wanda. There was no malice on her part. She tried to do good, but ended up screwing up bc she was dealing with magic she didnt fully understand. Thats like classic Wanda

A trait all magneto's children have in common with him. lol

[misty101]

A trait all magneto's children have in common with him. lol

Magneto only has one child and Wanda isn't it. And Polaris ain't no screw up.

[jwatson]

Magneto only has one child and Wanda isn't it. And Polaris ain't no screw up.

Polaris has definitely been known to screw up from time to time, it's one of the things i love about her.

[misty101]

Polaris has definitely been known to screw up from time to time, it's one of the things i love about her.

I'm not even going to bother engaging that one. Nothing Polaris has ever done is on the monumental scale of f-up that Wanda did. Do not even compare her to that witch.

[Alan2099]

I'm not even going to bother engaging that one. Nothing Polaris has ever done is on the monumental scale of f-up that Wanda did. Do not even compare her to that witch.

Has Polaris ever done anything that was on a monumental scale, good or bad? Most of the time she ends up being just kinda there.

[Lucyinthesky]

That just goes to show how badly Wanda was treated by writers, who seemed to want her to be ruined as a hero. Whereas (again) the writers protected Cyclops by showing clearly that killing Xavier was not his fault and anyone who accused him of being a villain or a murderer was wrong.

I don't see the problem with hand waving stories that were so toxic for my favorite character. Again, "Doom did it" may be silly, but wiping out mutants as part of a master plan would be in character for Doom, while it's out of character for Wanda Maximoff. X-fans lose nothing if she didn't do it, while if she did it, Wanda fans lose everything.



Not from me, you wouldn't. I don't hold characters responsible for things that are totally out of character for them.

Granted, between HoM, Remender's mutant teleportation, and now Hickman's mutant-zombie thing, I totally understand feeling that the writers have made "Wanda screws everything up for millions of mutants" a part of her character. But it's difficult for a fan of a character to believe that. It would be like if writers told us that Jean routinely eats planets. I don't see why a Jean fan would accept that.

Cyclops was blamed for Xavier´s death despite his phoenix possesion, he was send to prison and was blamed by the X-men and the Avengers, Kitty Pryde tried to kill him. Even Magneto and Emma who supported him during this era made it clear they were there for him but didn´t think he was innocent just that he needed to make up for what he did and in the end he was killed off panel by the Inhuman terrigenesis. Despite some bad stories I think this path was better for his character in the end because this allowed him to be back as part of the X-men, he could feel remorseful, tell his own pov and even admit the guilt he felt for killing Charles. This didn´t made him incapable of being an hero, I would argue it allowed him to develop as a character. Taking responsibility and overcoming their own short comings by being allowed to do it is a theme with the X-men since Rogue and Magneto became a part of the team. Quicksilver became part of X-factor after he was written as a complete villain on Avengers titles


I think this is exactly what would help Wanda´s character at this point imo, it can be done on Avengers titles or on X-men titles but I think the worst thing that happened to her was being left out of the books for years and then her actions being swept under the rug because they needed to rehabilitate the character quickly, without even a little character work for her, it only led to House of M and Decimation being left previous open to be revisited again and again by writers from the Avengers and X-men, which of course it´s not fair for her or her fans. I honestly hope Hickman or the Avengers offices have the intention of putting an end to this storyline, that way she can truly go forward to better stories for her.

[Havok83]

Has Polaris ever done anything that was on a monumental scale, good or bad? Most of the time she ends up being just kinda there.

Yeah Im drawing a blank on where her actions inadvertently caused massive damage to those around her

[jwatson]

I'm not even going to bother engaging that one. Nothing Polaris has ever done is on the monumental scale of f-up that Wanda did. Do not even compare her to that witch.

Who knew we were talking about scales of mess ups. Guess that conversation must have happened in between what was actually posted. *shrugs*