Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[Havok83]

If being white removes a character from being a minority metaphor, then that's 90% of the X-Men gone

race isnt the only minority out there.

[The Cool Thatguy]

race isnt the only minority out there.

It was the one cited to discredit Wanda from being a minority metaphor.

Forgetting, of course, that she's of Roma descent and has been for some time.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Okay this is a big reach ain't nothing biracial about that couple, Wanda is always drawn as a basic white woman, and when Vision takes on a human appearance that's always white too come on now.

People are upset Wanda's dating outside her race, this being a robot - dating someone who isn't seen as acceptable. Quicksilver did this in Avengers when he found out they were engaged. This isn't about skin colour, this about allegory and metaphor.

People can be white and be in a marginalised group, like many, many X-men or people in real life who are LGBT or date people who aren't white.

Meet the first group of mutants:



You think Marvel didn't use them for allegories?

It's super-hero comics. Xavier dates an alien bird woman, its ok, but when Wanda dates a robot - that's a too bridge too far?

[GenericUsername]

Okay this is a big reach ain't nothing biracial about that couple, Wanda is always drawn as a basic white woman, and when Vision takes on a human appearance that's always white too come on now.

Wanda isn't white despite artists not grasping what Romani is. And while there are white-look Romani out there, most do not look white and all are not treated white. She was raised Romani with Romanipen.

[Havok83]

Wanda isn't white despite artists not grasping what Romani is. And while there are white-look Romani out there, most do not look white and all are not treated white. She was raised Romani with Romanipen.

To be fair, Wanda started out as a white until the Romani heritage was added to her backstory almost 20 years after she was created. The artists arent at fault here as they should stick to her original rendition. Artists changing how characters look years after itself is problematic (we've seen the reverse done with Sunspot and M for example). To add to the confusion, her backstory has been changed and retconned multiple times, saying she was Magneto's daughter to now not the child of either one of them. What is the current canon status of her ethnic origins? Is even that still a mystery?

[Ferro]

In an X-men forum, about a fictional marginalised group, maybe don't be against the metaphor about bi-racial couples. You think she's the only person who does robots in Marvel? lol And why is it "common sense?"



What's next? Not approving of Xavier dating aliens?

I literaly said on a post above the relantionship is fine, creating babies out of thin air is not

[Micabe]

People are upset Wanda's dating outside her race, this being a robot - dating someone who isn't seen as acceptable. Quicksilver did this in Avengers when he found out th engaged. This isn't about skin colour, this about allegory and metaphor.

People can be white and be in a marginalised group, like many, many X-men or people in real life who are LGBT or date people who aren't white.

Meet the first group of mutants:

ey were

You think Marvel didn't use them for allegories?

It's super-hero comics. Xavier dates an alien bird woman, its ok, but when Wanda dates a robot - that's a too bridge too far?

Just throwing this out there... Vision isn't a robot he is a sentient Synthoid.

[GenericUsername]

To be fair, Wanda started out as a white until the Romani heritage was added to her backstory almost 20 years after she was created. The artists arent at fault here as they should stick to her original rendition. Artists changing how characters look years after itself is problematic (we've seen the reverse done with Sunspot and M for example). To add to the confusion, her backstory has been changed and retconned multiple times, saying she was Magneto's daughter to now not the child of either one of them. What is the current canon status of her ethnic origins? Is even that still a mystery?

My preference as someone of descent would be for them to have created a new Romani character. But that's not often what we get. And we only have about five characters in total in the entirety of comics. In the entire west there is no good representations unless they are written by Romani themselves. So even a character that was given the status of having grown up Romani, with Romanipen is a step above other depictions. That are usually someone that found out later that they were Romani (alt u Zatanna and Nightwing). The artists are at fault. So are the editors. They decided this 45 years ago. They did not put her in the body of a white woman. They just decided this is her origin. Before that her origin was not really fleshed out. They tried to attach it to Whizzer and Miss America but they weren't European and the twins were already European so that did not work. Before that, they had no origin and no last names. They just came from Europe.

So they've had plenty of time to fix the problems with this character and the few others they have. The reason why some Romani and people of Romani descent stick to characters that have these kinds of flaws is we don't have much in Western pop culture. So bare minimum is still something we have to deal with. It has not gotten better in decades. And instead of people calling for that to improve, they just call for their removal. For them to just be white. It should be that Romani get involved in these characters or they create new characters that don't have the stereotypes involved.

Even when she was Mags' kid, she had Magda as a mother who was Sinti herself.

[GenericUsername]

I literaly said on a post above the relantionship is fine, creating babies out of thin air is not

From what we've seen of ancient mythology and comics which based themselves on it, it really depends on the outcome. If Byrne never took over, chances are the kids would not have been turned into demon babies. And if they had never had that, or the HoM situation, nothing would be thought out of the ordinary. As it wasn't then when comics loved being super weird.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

To be fair, Wanda started out as a white until the Romani heritage was added to her backstory almost 20 years after she was created. The artists arent at fault here as they should stick to her original rendition. Artists changing how characters look years after itself is problematic (we've seen the reverse done with Sunspot and M for example). To add to the confusion, her backstory has been changed and retconned multiple times, saying she was Magneto's daughter to now not the child of either one of them. What is the current canon status of her ethnic origins? Is even that still a mystery?

Cool. So the babies were totally legit from the start, and you take issue with the retcons that de-legitimized them, then?

[Denkota]

They can't change even now. When Teddy the skrull adopts a human form then he is blonde and white. Speaking of Teddy it's only a matter of time that Wiccan his love is getting a event like Empyre where he at last ascends to being the demiurge and either takes a hike into limbo or turn mad with power requiring magic intervention and Wanda being blamed for not keeping a closer eye on him.

[Striderblack01]

In an X-men forum, about a fictional marginalised group, maybe don't be against the metaphor about bi-racial couples. You think she's the only person who does robots in Marvel? lol And why is it "common sense?"

You know...

It's good to see this sentiment.
I look forward to seeing your support for Polyamory, especially for Logan/Jean/Scott/Emma polycule.

[Steel Inquisitor]

You know...

It's good to see this sentiment.
I look forward to seeing your support for Polyamory, especially for Logan/Jean/Scott/Emma polycule.

I do support that lol

[BroHomo]

It's comics. Where people have kids with aliens and trees too. It's not that unusual.

Um who is out there schlupping trees?!?? Even so Aliens, trees are biological systems, they have genetics that comes from another biological system. Vision however doesnt. Sooo its kinda unusual

Okay this is a big reach ain't nothing biracial about that couple, Wanda is always drawn as a basic white woman, and when Vision takes on a human appearance that's always white too come on now.

That's what I'm screaming...lol If 2 white chars in a relationship is needed to portray an interracial relationship....double laawd

If being white removes a character from being a minority metaphor, then that's 90% of the X-Men gone

I guess that whole Mutant thing kinda flew over your head??

It was the one cited to discredit Wanda from being a minority metaphor.

Forgetting, of course, that she's of Roma descent and has been for some time.

She wouldn't need to be a minority metaphor if she were a minority tho right?
I don't think anyone has forgotten she's Roma but the fact that she's Roma still doesn't make her relationship with Vision an interracial one.

People are upset Wanda's dating outside her race, this being a robot - dating someone who isn't seen as acceptable.

But it's not dating someone outside her races She was dating someone that almost alive....I wouldn't designate a race to Vision personally but if I had to it would be white. Seeing someone have a romantic relationship with someone that may or may not have the capacity to return the same feelings is troubling. +Knowing about Wanda's powers it seems likely she was lowkey manipulating the Vision to express himself in ways that she and others would read as human.

Quicksilver did this in Avengers when he found out they were engaged. This isn't about skin colour, this about allegory and metaphor.

Huh? sooo it's not about being an interracial couple? Would you consider Superman and Louis Lane an interracial couple? SW+Visions relationship can be allegorical about numerous aspects in real life relationships. But its a piss poor translation of an interracial one.

People can be white and be in a marginalised group, like many, many X-men or people in real life who are LGBT or date people who aren't white.

Ehhh I wouldn't consider a person in the majority who dates a minority 'marginalized'

Meet the first group of mutants:



You think Marvel didn't use them for allegories?

I mean do you? And its a safe bet to say Marvel still uses them as metaphorical stand ins.

It's super-hero comics. Xavier dates an alien bird woman, its ok, but when Wanda dates a robot - that's a too bridge too far?

I mean one is like Superman+Louis Lane the other is like a Rocket Raccoon+Gamora. Not interracial but inter-species but tbh I'd hold more stock in RR+Gamora than I would in Vision+Scarlet Witch
I mean even Wanda questioned his 'life'

Ouch!

The reason why some Romani and people of Romani descent stick to characters that have these kinds of flaws is we don't have much in Western pop culture. So bare minimum is still something we have to deal with. It has not gotten better in decades. And instead of people calling for that to improve, they just call for their removal. For them to just be white. It should be that Romani get involved in these characters or they create new characters that don't have the stereotypes involved.

Even when she was Mags' kid, she had Magda as a mother who was Sinti herself.

No one is denying her Romani heritage, but it doesnt mean she doesn't look, and overwhelmingly is treated like a shes 100% white

You know...

It's good to see this sentiment.
I look forward to seeing your support for Polyamory, especially for Logan/Jean/Scott/Emma polycule.

Right? like for some people who cant seem to grasp the KraKoa and KraKoans as a allegory for minorities gaining agency there's a lot of metaphors being thrown around.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Um who is out there schlupping trees?!?? Even so Aliens, trees are biological systems, they have genetics that comes from another biological system. Vision however doesnt. Sooo its kinda unusual

You need to read more than the X-titles. Things get freaky in Marvel lol

That's what I'm screaming...lol If 2 white chars in a relationship is needed to portray an interracial relationship....double laawd

It's not about two white characters, that is a reach. It's about a woman dating an android. Vision could be Japanese in his alter ego and we'd still be having this conversation because what type of human he shifts into isn't why people have problems with them dating.

I guess that whole Mutant thing kinda flew over your head??

No. The argument was that mutants could be white and be a minority.

She wouldn't need to be a minority metaphor if she were a minority tho right?
I don't think anyone has forgotten she's Roma but the fact that she's Roma still doesn't make her relationship with Vision an interracial one.

She's both. The fact he's not human does, that's what the detractors hate about him dating her. They despise them both for not dating his own kind.

But it's not dating someone outside her races She was dating someone that almost alive....I wouldn't designate a race to Vision personally but if I had to it would be white. Seeing someone have a romantic relationship with someone that may or may not have the capacity to return the same feelings is troubling.

This is a tangent. We both know this isn't about skin color, it's about Vision not being a human. WE know Vision's race, it's Synthezoid, a subspecies of android. Vision just looks white as a human because he shapes shifts, like J'onn J'onz his true form is not human. It's Marvel, androids who are able to be alive is a genre staple.

+Knowing about Wanda's powers it seems likely she was lowkey manipulating the Vision to express himself in ways that she and others would read as human.

Read Avengers comics, Vision's not being manipulated. Why did you jump to that conclusion? What are you basing this on?

Huh? sooo it's not about being an interracial couple? Would you consider Superman and Louis Lane an interracial couple? SW+Visions relationship can be allegorical about numerous aspects in real life relationships. But its a piss poor translation of an interracial one.

Yes. Kryptonians are aliens, not humans. They get insulted for dating outside their races inside and outside their universe, works for me. The fact that they're drawn white, and Wanda is Romani, so her being white is debatable, isn't compelling.

Ehhh I wouldn't consider a person in the majority who dates a minority 'marginalized'

Talk to bi-racial couples, even people who are white get discriminated against when they're in them. Do you think white LGBT aren't in marginalised groups?

I mean do you? And its a safe bet to say Marvel still uses them as metaphorical stand ins.

Yes, that's why I bought it up. This is moving the goal posts, the question was bought up as an example of an allegory in Marvel.

I mean one is like Superman+Louis Lane the other is like a Rocket Raccoon+Gamora. Not interracial but inter-species but tbh I'd hold more stock in RR+Gamora than I would in Vision+Scarlet Witch
I mean even Wanda questioned his 'life'

Ouch!

Numerous writers have had varying opinions on their relationship, this doesn't erase the fact they have wanted a family before. Wanda's gotten insulted on this very forum for wanting children with him, in fact. This has been a continuing storyline with them both since "Darker Than Scarlet." And was a big reason for how Bendis wrote her in Avengers: Disassembled.

No one is denying her Romani heritage, but it doesnt mean she doesn't look, and overwhelmingly is treated like a shes 100% white
Right? like for some people who cant seem to grasp the KraKoa and KraKoans as a allegory for minorities gaining agency there's a lot of metaphors being thrown around.

You stance is that she's not a Romani? It's not like anyone's complaining about Quicksilver or Doom, and they're both Romani characters. That's obvious to everyone.