Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[coveredinbees]

No.....

Excited to be all powerful.


Frequently gets in over his head.



Eta: I hate this costume. The headband and scarf cape were more unique than another spandex suit.

[Journey]

Excited to be all powerful.


Frequently gets in over his head.



Eta: I hate this costume. The headband and scarf cape were more unique than another spandex suit.

1 My boys a god of course he loves his own power! 2 he's still young everyone gets ahead of themselves sometimes. 3 the costume is great I saw a fanart with a new headband that really completes the look. And 4 No HOM was Wanda's **** up the end!!

[coveredinbees]

1. On his way to egomania! 2. Dr. Strange, Wolverine, the Avengers have all given him lessons in responsibility! Why don't they stick? 3. You'll have to send it to me. Maybe the artist on Strikeforce. Angela and Monica look great, but Hellstrom and Wiccan don't. 4. This conversation has proven to be endless.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I am probably the most indifferent person you will ever discuss Wanda Maximoff with on this forum. I do not care about Wanda Maximoff as a character, at all!! I don't care if she's a villain, hero, or in between. That being said from a canon perspective Wanda is not a rational person, and frankly neither are Scott and Jean they've made Wolverine a Brother Husband. That being said I wasn't hating on Wanda I have actually defended Wanda before because I don't think she's the evil witch the x- forums would have you believe.

That wasn't a neutral post, it was a post Id expect from the "Wanda haters." In canon perspective she's not in any way shape or form any less sane then Jean, it's like thinking Dark Phonix defines Jean's personality. Storylines like House of M, and Avengers: Disassembled are the equivalent of the Dark Phnoeix Saga for her. If you want to see her ordinary charatcerisation read comics like Busiek's Avengers. That's the gold standard for Wanda. Which makes your prior post all the more confusing by call her a b*tch and quickly assuming she's a bigger b*tch by dumping her problems on her kids as if she's going to do it in her next appearance. That's blaming Wanda.

Jean and Scott going poly isn't a sign of insanity LOL

And while were on the topic I am so sick of the "posessed/manipulated" trope. So many of these people have committed atrocities and not been held accountable. Jean Suffered was gone for years, the Phoenix 5 were ostracized by the X-Men and the whole world and considered pariah and criminals. Iceman fricking froze the earth and had to have killed/maimed hundreds if not thousands of people over self hatred and got away with it. Logan has killed so many people and is still considered a hero. Both horrible crimes that deserve to be punished. And Wanda is no different the only reason I'm not for the X-men coming for her now is because theirs no point it's been years they had several chances.

Magik and Emma haven't been punished for their crimes in the Phoenix Five. If your problem is with these things why single Wanda out? X-men have had issues with that long before Decimation. Wanda's got negative consequences inside and outside Marvel for M-Day, and to this day any time she tries to apologise it's thrown in her face as though she ran over people's pets when all she's doing is trying to fix things she regrets. Various X-men are huge hypocrites when she does that, like Rogue and Cyclops. You'd think none of them ever did something terrible under the influence of a powerful entity before or made massive mistakes hurting people. Wanda was gone for years, as well. All the Phenoix Five are heroes now, for all intents and purposes that's something that happened to other people, but not Wanda. If you're an X-man you can drop Rogue on a planet when she disagrees with you sending Captain Marvel to hell and leave her there with no way home and get away clean. This is what Magik did in the Phoenix Five. Has that ever been bought up again?

Another reason I find Wanda to be irrational canon wise she is very hypocritical about her role in M-Day. Sometimes she's sorry, other times she's a judgemental bitch about the whole thing, than she can go back to being sympathetic. She doesn't own it. At least when Wiccan fucks up he takes responsibility for his actions. Has genuine guilt is willing to do whatever it takes to solve the problem. He almost committed suicide twice to save the universe from his **** up and showed genuine remorse. Why Wanda's son shows more responsiblity than her is beyond me. Out of Character or not it's still canon the only thing I want from Wanda at this point is to own her role and stick with it. Doom did it has always been a crappy excuse and it never went anywhere.

Her characterisation changes because that's what people do when they get the reactions she gets for trying to fix what she did. She's not a saint, you can't expect her to just be happy while Rogue tries to cut her off from the Avengers right in front of her, and when she did voluntarily try to surrender to the X-men the X-men immediately went into war mode when Magneto and the Avengers, including her son Wiccan (why doesn't what he say in Wanda's defense mean anything?), try to protect her. The X-men are worse then the Imperial Guard were with Jean Grey in the Dark Phoenix saga. My, how the table's have turned. She owns it, and has shown genuine guilt, which is more then you say for the X-men's friends like Apocalypse right now. Wanda's got higher standards for redemption then stone cold mass murders on Krkaoa.

You may not like how they placed it on Doom, but that's comics for you. They had to do something because how she was written up to that point of going psycho and having powers she shouldn't have had short of tapping into Chthon had to be reckoned into making some sort of sense since all that was bad writing. You can't just have Cyclops act like the Phoenix and not have an explanation of why he's conquering the world like a god, that's what happened with Wanda.

Where did you expect it go? You do raise a good point, if Doom is responsible as shown in Children's Crusade then why are the X-men hassling Wanda?

[Journey]

1. On his way to egomania! 2. Dr. Strange, Wolverine, the Avengers have all given him lessons in responsibility! Why don't they stick? 3. You'll have to send it to me. Maybe the artist on Strikeforce. Angela and Monica look great, but Hellstrom and Wiccan don't. 4. This conversation has proven to be endless.

1 Malarkey. 2 Strange and Wolverine and the Avengers can't even keep their own lives together and have no business preaching responsibility, 3 I did. 4 honestly it has but it's entertaining.

[Journey]

That wasn't a neutral post, it was a post Id expect from the "Wanda haters." In canon perspective she's not in any way shape or form any less sane then Jean, it's like thinking Dark Phonix defines Jean's personality. Storylines like House of M, and Avengers: Disassembled are the equivalent of the Dark Phnoeix Saga for her. If you want to see her ordinary charatcerisation read comics like Busiek's Avengers. That's the gold standard for Wanda. Which makes your prior post all the more confusing by call her a b*tch and quickly assuming she's a bigger b*tch by dumping her problems on her kids as if she's going to do it in her next appearance. That's blaming Wanda.

Jean and Scott going poly isn't a sign of insanity LOL



Magik and Emma haven't been punished for their crimes in the Phoenix Five. If your problem is with these things why single Wanda out? X-men have had issues with that long before Decimation. Wanda's got negative consequences inside and outside Marvel for M-Day, and to this day any time she tries to apologise it's thrown in her face as though she ran over people's pets when all she's doing is trying to fix things she regrets. Various X-men are huge hypocrites when she does that, like Rogue and Cyclops. You'd think none of them ever did something terrible under the influence of a powerful entity before or made massive mistakes hurting people. Wanda was gone for years, as well. All the Phenoix Five are heroes now, for all intents and purposes that's something that happened to other people, but not Wanda. If you're an X-man you can drop Rogue on a planet when she disagrees with you sending Captain Marvel to hell and leave her there with no way home and get away clean. This is what Magik did in the Phoenix Five. Has that ever been bought up again?



Her characterisation changes because that's what people do when they get the reactions she gets for trying to fix what she did. She's not a saint, you can't expect her to just be happy while Rogue tries to cut her off from the Avengers right in front of her, and when she did voluntarily try to surrender to the X-men the X-men immediately went into war mode when Magneto and the Avengers, including her son Wiccan (why doesn't what he say in Wanda's defense mean anything?), try to protect her. The X-men are worse then the Imperial Guard were with Jean Grey in the Dark Phoenix saga. My, how the table's have turned. She owns it, and has shown genuine guilt, which is more then you say for the X-men's friends like Apocalypse right now. Wanda's got higher standards for redemption then stone cold mass murders on Krkaoa.

You may not like how they placed it on Doom, but that's comics for you. They had to do something because how she was written up to that point of going psycho and having powers she shouldn't have had short of tapping into Chthon had to be reckoned into making some sort of sense since all that was bad writing. You can't just have Cyclops act like the Phoenix and not have an explanation of why he's conquering the world like a god, that's what happened with Wanda.

Where did you expect it go? You do raise a good point, if Doom is responsible as shown in Children's Crusade then why are the X-men hassling Wanda?

Okay you clearly misunderstood what I said , which was Wanda "would" be a bitch if she dumped blame on her kids. That was a hypothetical statement due to a hypothetical situation during a conversation with another member. Going Poly with Wolverine of all people especially with the history there is insane.

I never singled out Wanda I clearly gave **** to both Iceman and Wolverine due to their possession and midlife crisis in Bobby's case. Every member of the Phoenix 5 was ostracized so yes they suffered to an extent.

Finally again I don't expect her to be a punching bag the only thing I'm asking for the character is consistency. And to own her role and stop being wishy washy. And my beef with Doom did it is was never expanded upon no real explanation, no motive, no story nada zip zilch. Just Doom did it Love Wanda again!! It's a cop out and poorly executed with no foundation to support it. You can't just throw out a statement like that and do nothing with it. Clearly no writer takes it seriously because as you said their still on Wanda's ass.

[gurkle]

Wanda needs a big old-fashioned retcon story. There is no actual canon explanation or timeline for most of the stuff that happened in Avengers Disassembled / House of M. There wasn't even one at the time because the stories made so many continuity errors and created others: many writers think Wanda killed Agatha Harkness while the creators of Avengers Disassembled actually intended to show that Harkness had been dead for years and Wanda was imagining her all this time.

In the '70s Wanda and Pietro had had so many conflicting stories about their origin that the Avengers comic did a three-part story that tried to reconcile every story and provide a definitive origin story as well as revealing (or at least hinting) that their true father was Magneto. Now there needs to be a story that does the same for every story that doesn't make sense since 2004: Doom, the Life Force, whether or not Hawkeye slept with a Doombot version of Wanda, why the cow-woman told them their father was Magneto, etc.

It doesn't even matter where it all ends up or how guilty it makes her. There just needs to be something that makes some sort of sense out of this nonsensical backstory.

[Ferro]

Well that was a confusing few pages, but I guess we're on New Mutants now? I rather they just go for digital already cause I am tired of them moving the goal post.



That's so damn annoying. Are they even still classified as mutants at this point?

i sure hope not lol

[Ferro]

Wanda isn't any less rational than Scott or Jean is. It's like calling Jean "crazy" after the Phoenix incident. Wiccan is one of Wanda's biggest supporters in the Marvel universe, he understands her more then her so-called friends in the X-men. Lying about blame is Quicksiler's thing, not Wanda's. This is a very confusing post to hate on Wanda as if there haven't been a multitude of stories where superheroes do something evil while under the influence of a possession or higher power they can't control and are forgiven for acting out of character.

Edit: By your standards Cyclops should stay in a mental institution after the Phoenix Five incident.

wanda has no friends in the x-men besides rogue

[Veitha]

Just here to say that it's not true that Emma was punished for the P5 thing, she went to prison for that and then she was ostracized like the other P5 by the X-Men and became an outlawed. Let's not lie on that.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Just here to say that it's not true that Emma was punished for the P5 thing, she went to prison for that and then she was ostracized like the other P5 by the X-Men and became an outlawed. Let's not lie on that.

She was punished but it's not like she fulfilled her sentence, what you're omitting is how Cyclops and Magneto broke her out of prison - that's why she became an outlaw. Both of them committed murder with their own hands under a corruptive influence, Wanda did it indirectly and with no ill intent about murdering anyone. Were Colossus and Magik punished? Did the X-men ever find out what Magik did to Rogue?

wanda has no friends in the x-men besides rogue

Hope likes her.



But who needs friends when enemies will do just as well?



Noting can go wrong here.

[Ferro]

better than wanda that's for sure, with apoc you know what to expect but wanda?
she is as unstable as a cup near a cat, poor hawkeye and vision

[Veitha]

I don't know what to say at this point, SteelInquisitor. You're making a point of poor Wanda suffering enormous suffering and consequences for her actions and being innocent (even though she went to Doom and caused this mess, while the P5 were forced to get that power by Stark), but Emma and Scott being thrown out of their team, spending time in prison and being treated as outlawed is not to taken into consideration? Because they killed people directly (what does that mean)? What ill intentions did they have that was not influenced by the Phoenix Force? Was it bad that they eloped from prison for being incarcerated for something they had no control over? But at the same time Wanda is not supposed to be punished even though she started the whole mess?

There's no logical sense behind this line of thought, it looks like you're just making excuses for Wanda now.

Wanda did not a single day in prison, she was free in East Europe living her best life and when she came back she tried to look like a victim.

Scott and Emma never recovered their teammates trust up until Krakoa when you add IvX to the equation, and they were treated badly by the whole hero community. Goddess, the X-Men hated them so much that Beast broke time-space for teaching Scott a lesson lol.

[cyclops_was_right]

Wanda isn't any less rational than Scott or Jean is. It's like calling Jean "crazy" after the Phoenix incident. Wiccan is one of Wanda's biggest supporters in the Marvel universe, he understands her more then her so-called friends in the X-men. Lying about blame is Quicksiler's thing, not Wanda's. This is a very confusing post to hate on Wanda as if there haven't been a multitude of stories where superheroes do something evil while under the influence of a possession or higher power they can't control and are forgiven for acting out of character.

Edit: By your standards Cyclops should stay in a mental institution after the Phoenix Five incident.

I think those two were somewhat different though. Cyclops killing Xavier was a bout of temporary insanity brought on by an outside force and once the Phoenix Force left him and for him to become that out of control is for him to get possessed by the Phoenix Force in full force again. While Cyclops might be in dire need of therapy for a lot of things, he is generally one of the people in the Marvel universe with the most control of himself - I mean he contained the void in his brain by himself.

Wanda's mental break came from her own trauma and the powers she used during Avengers Disassembled / House of M were an inherent part of her. In my mind that means that there's more need to have her in an institution or at least under permanent observation by mental health specialists for the rest of her life.

That said of course it's irrational for the X-men to hate her and constantly throw it in her face given that she was mentally ill when all of it happened. However they're not coming from a rational place but from an emotional one. As a result of her actions they found themselves on the very edge of extinction and a load of bad stuff happened to them, so it's not surprising that they were looking for a scapegoat. Just like from a rational perspective there's no reason why the X-men were okay with Wolverine killing plenty of people of his own volition while not forgiving Cyke for killing Xavier under Phoenix influence. The resulting loss of Wanda's and Cyke's actions was more personal for them and they were unable to see through their rage.

There's no better example of this than during The Children's Crusade when they wouldn't listen to Wanda when she was willing to reverse House of M and had already shown that she can return a mutant's power without any side effects when she returned Rictor's powers.

Then again, some characterization on Wanda's side hasn't helped her either - there's that conversation between her and Rogue in Uncanny Avengers where she's not repentant at all and asks Rogue why there's a need for mutants to be born. Which is insensitive on its own, but coming from her...Also until this day, I'm still not sure what Steve Rogers was thinking putting her on the team that was supposed to preach about mutant human unity?

Shouldn't Quicksilver be the one standing trial though - he was the one who manipulated his emotionally unstable sister into creating the House of M world which resulted in M-day, although he thought he was saving her life.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

I wouldn’t say living as an amnesiac and having Doom monitor your every move (and potentially being raped by a former teammate) is “living ones best life”, but maaaaaybe that’s what some people secretly wish for.