Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch) stand trial for House of M ?.

[gurkle]

That's not what they say. Wanda tells the story about how it all went down when she regained her memory.

One point, though: there are two versions of this scene. The one you've posted is the one from the trades, where Heinberg rewrote a lot of the dialogue. In the original floppy version, Wanda doesn't remember anything that happened after she visited Doom, and the whole "Life Force" thing and its aftermath is told only by Doom.

Since the version you've posted is the later version I think it's fair to consider it definitive, I'm just bringing it up to show how confused this whole story is. We don't know what the "Life Force" even is, when Wanda regained her memories of her children, how her children were reincarnated or what the timeline was connecting this "Life Force" thing to Disassembled/House of M. The retcon was so vague that it just created more questions and answered nothing.

[Iron Maiden]

I think later writers SORT OF had Wanda put the blame of Doom.

But I would agree that it wasn't what Heinberg actually intended. Doom was clearly throwing himself on the sword for Wanda's benefit... I think later writers just sort of ignored that because no one wanted to follow up on that.

I think that's what generally happened except I was confused a bit by the story with Wanda and Victor meeting again during Axis when people's personalities flipped. She was going to kill him on sight but Doom captured her and was able to capture enough power to bring someone back to life. He ended up choosing Cassie Lang. So was the berserk Wanda the opposite of how she felt? Did she repress the memory of it all out of guilt because she was responsible from the beginning by trying to bring back her children no matter what the cost or consequences?

[Iron Maiden]

One point, though: there are two versions of this scene. The one you've posted is the one from the trades, where Heinberg rewrote a lot of the dialogue. In the original floppy version, Wanda doesn't remember anything that happened after she visited Doom, and the whole "Life Force" thing and its aftermath is told only by Doom.

Since the version you've posted is the later version I think it's fair to consider it definitive, I'm just bringing it up to show how confused this whole story is. We don't know what the "Life Force" even is, when Wanda regained her memories of her children, how her children were reincarnated or what the timeline was connecting this "Life Force" thing to Disassembled/House of M. The retcon was so vague that it just created more questions and answered nothing.

Are you sure about that? Because I recall reading that scene as it was when first published. I didn't buy the HC until much later. I'm too lazy to dig up the single issues but the Marvel Unlimited site has that page for issue #7

Another page of Wanda telling her side of the events...

[Wiccan]

The whole point of Children's Crusade was to bring back Wanda and make her a viable character to use again. If the point wasn't to blame Doom at least to some degree then the very idea of including him on this whole mess is completely pointless. The way that some people take the X-Men/Logan's "He's just lying cause he's in love" as gospel and ignore like, the rest of the whole narrative which is sympathetic to Wanda(and Billy and Magneto) is nothing but pure stubbornness because they refuse to look at the story in any other way than what was originally written.

It's not a clear-cut "Wanda is completely innocent and guilt-free", and you can still think that even all that doesn't absolve her enough. But to think that Heinberg created the idea of the life force, made it so that she had been possessed rather than just gone insane on her own, and involved a bigger super villain on a "behind the scenes" role in a story that he was originally unrelated to only for the whole point to be "Lol actually this doesn't change anything!" is, honestly, dumb.

That's not what they say. Wanda tells the story about how it all went down when she regained her memory.

1) They make clear that the life force isn't something be messed with and corrupts its hosts when they have Doom wield it and he's like 10x more megalomaniac. My point is that you can't blame Wanda "for not controlling it" like it meant she was weak and could have stayed fine.

2) None of what she says contradicts the idea that Doom was manipulating her and gave her the life force so that it'd break her mind and cause her to raise hell.

3) It's funny that when Doom admits guilt it's all "Just because he said it doesn't mean it's true", but when Wanda does so that's fact.

As I always say in regards to this, and find crazy that others don't seem to realize, the thing is that Doom didn't make her say "No More Mutants"(and etc) specifically. Neither did the Life Force, as it's not sentient. She understands that, feels guilty, and takes responsability, and also feels guilty for having sought Doom in the first place. But he still has a share of blame, and that fact + the fact that she only lost her mind due to an external force inside her body is what makes it so she's a redeemable character who the Avengers can still take back.

[GenericUsername]

At this point it doesn't matter if it was Wanda, Doom or a cherry tree. The opportunity to create any sort of resolution was all those years ago. They waited too long. Even if there were a trial now, it wouldn't feel gratifying. It wouldn't bring things to a close. Because people being over it would be subjective.

Nothing short of a full retcon would undo it completely.

[Iron Maiden]

It's a good thing I saved a text copy of this because Marvel's archives don't go back that far anymore with that articles. This is from an older post.

Marvel.com: Why did you want Doom in this series playing such a prominent role?

Allan Heinberg: To my mind, Doctor Doom was the only sorcerer powerful enough—and invested enough—to have been able to successfully engineer the Scarlet Witch's prolonged disappearance. And I also loved the idea that Doom's obsession with finding his own mother paralleled Wiccan's quest to find the Scarlet Witch.

Marvel.com: Do Doom and Wanda share any sort of history from past stories you’re tapping into here or are you creating this whole?


Allan Heinberg: If Wanda and Doom share a romantic history in the Marvel Universe, I'm unaware of it. I just loved the idea of Doom's initially having sought out Wanda to exploit her reality-altering power only to then fall in love with her. And I thought perhaps Wanda might remind Doom of his sorceress mother.

Marvel.com: What can you say about Doom’s motivations for his actions here? Are the Young Avengers right to view him as an out and out bad guy or is there some altruism at work?

Allan Heinberg: Doom's motivations are going to become very clear in CRUSADE #7. But I have to say that, where Wanda is concerned, I think Doom believes his motives are altruistic. He is still a psychopathic narcissist, but he's also a man in love. Or at least he's behaving like a man in love.



I think that we see that Wanda was a source of conflict for Doom. Heinberg goes on to say should we "At this moment, he's as vulnerable and as emotionally articulate as I've ever seen him. Though, of course, that could just be yet another pose he affects to get what he really wants."

I think it's a bit ambiguous and IMO there was a conflict there between Victor having romantic feelings for Wanda yet at the same time we know that Victor mistress has always been power. I think if that had not been a factor in the story, i.e. Wanda, Doom and Wiccan needing to conjure up the Life Force again, his feelings for Wanda would have been more clear. If Patriot had not acted as he did, I wonder what would have happened.

[leokearon]

At this point it doesn't matter if it was Wanda, Doom or a cherry tree. The opportunity to create any sort of resolution was all those years ago. They waited too long. Even if there were a trial now, it wouldn't feel gratifying. It wouldn't bring things to a close. Because people being over it would be subjective.

Nothing short of a full retcon would undo it completely.

I knew it was the cherry tree, I never trusted it. Seriously though I'm still waiting for the everything that happen since Disassembled, including HOM, all the Civil Wars, Secret Empire and allt he other bad events to be revealed to be the work of Chthon who was creating all the chaos in the hero community to wealen them and strength his own poer so he could return to Earth.

[PhoenixThanos]

Here is how I think Krakoas Quiet Council would vote to exile Wanda:
Charles Xavier (yes), Magneto (no), Apocalypse (yes), Storm (no), Jean Grey (no), Night Crawler (no), Mister Sinister (yes), Mystique (no), Exodus (yes), Sebastion Shaw (yes), Emma Frost (yes). Thoughts ?.
Mystique and Emma Frost were my hardest choices.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The sooner Wanda is no longer used as a whipping boy for mutants, the better.

The story that led to House of M was built on both poor canon, and some impressively sexist tropes. (Muh babies are dead! Crazy time!). We have all forgotten that Disassembled started because Janet teased Wanda about her dead kids?

House of M came about because Marvel was pissed they lost X movie rights, and because they didn't quite grasp that a minority metaphor could still have a great number of people while still being a minority (the existence of Africa, for example, does not mean African Americans are not a minority in the US).

All the power losses/deaths should be fixed by now. The less said about House of M, the sooner its forgotten, the better

[Ferro]

But Heinberg is not laying the blame on Doom here....even Wanda doesn't go along with it and admits she was responsible for what she did. At her request, Doom helped her obtaine the power. What she did after that is all on her and her inability to control it. He is no where near her during all of Dissembled.

yeah I completly agree with this, im not sure why wanda being trown under the bus is such a crime but the same for doom is suddenly okay

[king of hybrids]

yeah I completly agree with this, im not sure why wanda being trown under the bus is such a crime but the same for doom is suddenly okay

Because Marvel’s been bending over backwards for decades to save doom from pure villainy in favor of his noble demon ****

With Wanda they just double down without rhyme or reason

[XPac]

Because Marvel’s been bending over backwards for decades to save doom from pure villainy in favor of his noble demon ****

With Wanda they just double down without rhyme or reason

The thing is, in this case I don't think there was actually a villain. There were people who messed up and arguably deserve consequences for their actions... but I don't think there was actually any villainy here. If there were an actual villain this would be much simpler ... heroes go to punch out the bad guy like they do every other problem.

[leokearon]

The sooner Wanda is no longer used as a whipping boy for mutants, the better.

The story that led to House of M was built on both poor canon, and some impressively sexist tropes. (Muh babies are dead! Crazy time!). We have all forgotten that Disassembled started because Janet teased Wanda about her dead kids?

House of M came about because Marvel was pissed they lost X movie rights, and because they didn't quite grasp that a minority metaphor could still have a great number of people while still being a minority (the existence of Africa, for example, does not mean African Americans are not a minority in the US).

All the power losses/deaths should be fixed by now. The less said about House of M, the sooner its forgotten, the better

Totally agree, Dissembled and therefore HOM, should have never happened if Bendis bothered to do his research.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Totally agree, Dissembled and therefore HOM, should have never happened if Bendis bothered to do his research.

Its not just research, though.

The premise is Wanda goes crazy because her babies are dead. That's more than a little cliche. At least when it happened under Byrne, it was both part of a running plot and greater whole.

More than that, what sparks it? Janet talking to Wanda about a near miss pregnancy with Hawkeye, and teasing Wanda about her dead children.

Did Bendis just grab a Chuck Austen plot as the man left?

[leokearon]

Its not just research, though.

The premise is Wanda goes crazy because her babies are dead. That's more than a little cliche. At least when it happened under Byrne, it was both part of a running plot and greater whole.

More than that, what sparks it? Janet talking to Wanda about a near miss pregnancy with Hawkeye, and teasing Wanda about her dead children.

Did Bendis just grab a Chuck Austen plot as the man left?

Yeah, so many things wrong with Disassembled, but for me it is the lack of Research. The whole story hinges on Wanda not knowing she had kids, which she already remembered and dealt with.
Also there is Jan, who Bendis loved to portray as a drunk who makes things worse in some flashbacks