View Poll Results: Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch) stand trial for her role in House of M ?

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  • Yes

    27 28.42%
  • No

    68 71.58%
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  1. #61

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    Actually, the real-world reason for House of M was simple: Marvel had created way too many mutants over the years, and they needed to cut them down to a manageable size. Also... no fallout? The Day after, Generation M, Son of M (and its direct sequel, Silent War), Sentinel Squad O*N*E, the 198, Deadly Genesis, Endangered Species, Messiah Complex... there was plenty of fallout to House of M.

    And please, let's try to avoid discussing the personal life of Bendis, that's of no concern to us.

  2. #62
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    The biggest crime here is Bendis's inability to do any research and the Editors not catching it and he did it twice with Wanda. First he makes Wanda forgetting her kids and then remembering them, the sole reason for Disassembled happening, this is despite the fact that Wanda knew about what happened to her kids. Therefore Disassembled should never have happened, therefore no HOM. Secondly he claims that Wanda depowered roughly 986,618 mutants, which represents roughly 98% of all mutants, however the attack on Genosha killed 16.5 million which was revealed to be roughly half the mutant population, so where did the other 15.5 millions mutant go?
    To be fair, yankees are bad at maths. Did you see that Common Core nonsense?
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Just a note here, there is some ambiguity about what happened to Agatha.

    Actually, Brian Bendis and Tom Brevoort said explicitly that that wasn't what happened. The idea in that scene was that Agatha had been dead for years and that every time we saw her since the '90s at least, it was Wanda subconsciously creating an illusion of her.
    Thanks for sharing. I kinda guessed that was the point, but Robinson must have also beleived Wanda killed Agatha -- and wrote that into his SW series. I never liked the way Agatha (a very powerful witch) was so easily disposed in the Vision/SW series by being burnt at the cross. So her reappearance in West Coast Avengers was A-OK with me. I will say that some of what Bendis wrote made sense-- with the huge exception that Wanda had long since dealt with the loss of her two children.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    The biggest crime here is Bendis's inability to do any research and the Editors not catching it and he did it twice with Wanda. First he makes Wanda forgetting her kids and then remembering them, the sole reason for Disassembled happening, this is despite the fact that Wanda knew about what happened to her kids. Therefore Disassembled should never have happened, therefore no HOM. Secondly he claims that Wanda depowered roughly 986,618 mutants, which represents roughly 98% of all mutants, however the attack on Genosha killed 16.5 million which was revealed to be roughly half the mutant population, so where did the other 15.5 millions mutant go?
    Looks like Hickman silently retconned them into oblivion. He probably has a reason for it. May even reveal it to us at some point.

  5. #65
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Looks like Hickman silently retconned them into oblivion. He probably has a reason for it. May even reveal it to us at some point.
    He probably just looked at Bendis's numbers and left it at that

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    Actually, the real-world reason for House of M was simple: Marvel had created way too many mutants over the years, and they needed to cut them down to a manageable size.
    what does that even mean?

    99.99% of mutants were just never seen anyway, and out of the limited amount of those millions who show up in books, 90% would end up comic limbo

  7. #67
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    what does that even mean?

    99.99% of mutants were just never seen anyway, and out of the limited amount of those millions who show up in books, 90% would end up comic limbo
    I means the mandate didn't make sense, but they did it anyway. Quesada spoke about how mutants being in the millions would not make them a minority. It was incorrect, and poorly thought out. They could have just continued to not write those mutants.
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  8. #68
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think the impression was that there were too many mutants at the time. Morrison had dozens and dozens of them showing up in backgrounds, there was that whole community of them in the Bishop book at the time, I don't know how many X-titles...

    Now on paper once you do the math, it doesn't sound like much, but if you just looked in the comics, you'd see a hell of a lot of mutants walking around. While I agree with the idea to cut down on them, they could have just stopped showing 85 different characters each month instead of wipping them all out. I feel since then the X-men stories have always been about the X-men only watching out for themselves. I miss the days when they were actually heroes.

  9. #69
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    When Cup O' Joe was in charge they were still putting out mutants being underdogs stories along with stories where the in-world population was in the tens of millions, so Joe probably told the X-Office to nuke the mutants to keep their lame status quo.
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  10. #70
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Honestly, I think the impression was that there were too many mutants at the time. Morrison had dozens and dozens of them showing up in backgrounds, there was that whole community of them in the Bishop book at the time, I don't know how many X-titles...

    Now on paper once you do the math, it doesn't sound like much, but if you just looked in the comics, you'd see a hell of a lot of mutants walking around. While I agree with the idea to cut down on them, they could have just stopped showing 85 different characters each month instead of wipping them all out. I feel since then the X-men stories have always been about the X-men only watching out for themselves. I miss the days when they were actually heroes.
    They could have just not written that many. In older comics, when they didn't want to write characters, they had them retire, or go on trips, have something important to handle. They had creative ways of making it so they weren't there. Now it's let's kill everyone off for some big event for a burst in sales. Then they bring some of them back right after anyway, lol.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    Negative, her mutant power was established as just energy wielding. Nothing to do with magic. Her natural magic was established as Chthonic under the general umbrella of chaos magic.
    No, it was established that her mutant power would have been just energy-wielding, but she was linked at birth to chaos magic. That's the kind of energy she wields.

    When it exists, at least. Chaos magic is not orderly, and can apparently fool even Doctor Strange at times.
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  12. #72
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol of course...when bringing up crimes Wanda did, in a thread about her...lets strawman the arguement to talk about an off topic char



    Errr she never had kids
    She thought so. Woe betide anybody who disagreed with her.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    They are chaos magic. Doctor Strange had used it just before this himself. It was just a poorly researched story. They corrected it by having Pietro possessed by Chthon to state that it does still exist.
    Great, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    There's also a Bendis-written issue of Avengers (#26, where Hawkeye may or may not have slept with Wanda, who may or may not have been retconned into being a Doombot) where Strange refers to her powers as "chaos magic."

    The fact is, the definition of her powers changes from writer to writer and sometimes in runs by the same writer. But most modern writers seem to accept the basic point that those Busiek issues made, which is that her mutant power has some kind of inherent magic element to it. Which is different from the old idea that she was just a mutant whose power resembled magic.
    This is good too. Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    No, it was established that her mutant power would have been just energy-wielding, but she was linked at birth to chaos magic. That's the kind of energy she wields.

    When it exists, at least. Chaos magic is not orderly, and can apparently fool even Doctor Strange at times.
    Thanks Kurt.

    I have been working on the idea Wanda got her powers increased so she could create these incidents on Doom, Reed Richards, Fury, Thor, Cap, Spidey, Iron Man, the Avengers, and the mutants. She altered their reality in increments, then did really big ones like House of M and No more mutants. I also think Wanda’s “spells” didn’t get cancelled until Secret Wars 2015, when all magical bindings protecting the world were eliminated to restart ANAD. That’s why I thought ANAD had a lot of difficulty with magic, and why a lot of unusual beings sprung up like Victorius, Singularity, Ulysses etc, because a fresh reality has to defend itself against the antibodies that spring up to combat.

    I would put the ruination of the whole of the 616 Marvel Universe (not just mutants) squarely at the feet of Wanda Maximoff, because it was the moment she felt she had to punish the MU, that it led to SW2015 and the Fresh Start Of ANAD. But, on the condition that the super heroes of the MU said to Wanda, “No you can’t have children”.
    Last edited by jackolover; 03-06-2020 at 08:31 PM.

  14. #74
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    No, it was established that her mutant power would have been just energy-wielding, but she was linked at birth to chaos magic. That's the kind of energy she wields.

    When it exists, at least. Chaos magic is not orderly, and can apparently fool even Doctor Strange at times.
    Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I means the mandate didn't make sense, but they did it anyway. Quesada spoke about how mutants being in the millions would not make them a minority. It was incorrect, and poorly thought out. They could have just continued to not write those mutants.
    can i get a source on that "millions of mutants would disqualify their minority status" thing by quesada?

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