Post-Crisis Batman question...

[superduperman]

When do the post-Crisis Batman stories "officially" begin? Would it be before or after Batman #400?

[Gotham citizen]

When do the post-Crisis Batman stories "officially" begin? Would it be before or after Batman #400?

Officially?
I think not even they know: in fact after Crisis on the Infinite Earths they had to write Zero Hour to solve some issues created with Crisis (if I remember well), and your question is exactly one of these issues?

[superduperman]

Officially?
I think not even they know: in fact after Crisis on the Infinite Earths they had to write Zero Hour to solve some issues created with Crisis (if I remember well), and your question is exactly one of these issues?

I know that because he had the least amount of changes after COIE most of his stuff was still canon even before then. I haven't read Zero Hour so I don't know what specific issues there were.

[Tzigone]

I know of nothing official. I have seen 401 used. Writers changed. Year One was 404-407 and Jason Todd's new origin was issue 408.

[Restingvoice]

I personally feel it's #408 because when I saw Jason before #404 it feels like Pre-Crisis Jason.

When did Batman stop dating Selina and Jason partnered with Bullock? That arc was definitely Pre-Crisis because it continued from where Nocturna died. I think.

[Digifiend]

In fact pre-Crisis Jason was even briefly in New Teen Titans AFTER the Crisis. Bear in mind, those issues and Donna's origin story were the only ones affected by the post-Crisis changes - NTT's continuity also mostly stayed intact.

[superduperman]

Okay, Batman #401 is a Legends crossover issue which is a post-Crisis story line so we know that it has to be around #400. And most of the ones after that are "origin" issues for things like Batman and Jason Todd.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...ht/4000-27222/

And, not that it matters, but it's also when the separation between "Bat" and "Man" is removed from the cover. Make of that what you will.

[Gotham citizen]

I know that because he had the least amount of changes after COIE most of his stuff was still canon even before then. I haven't read Zero Hour so I don't know what specific issues there were.

Batman didn't have any issue and in fact you can read his stories forgetting that Crisis on the infinite Earths happened. Like Restingvoice suggested the only great change in Batman's life is about Catwoman: before Crisis Bruce was dating Selina and Catwoman (who wore the purple gown with the green cape) was officially a Batman's ally but at a certain point of the eighties she was turned again in the villain we know; but I don't remember the last apparition of the "pre-crisis" Catwoman.

[jb681131]

When do the post-Crisis Batman stories "officially" begin? Would it be before or after Batman #400?

Well post-crisis is everything that happens after "Crisis On Infinit Earths" (aka COIE).
COIE is a 12 part event that starts in April 1985 and tha ends in March 1986 - this is excluding all the tie-ins.
COIE has not Batman nor Detective Comics tie-in.

In April 1985 Batman was at issue #385, while in March 1986 Batman was at issue #393.
Batman was written at the time by Doug Moench who finishes his run with issue #399.
Issue #400 of October 1986, is an anniversary issue with multiple stories and writters.
It is considered as the last appearance of the Pre-crisis Batman.

COIE is directly followed by another Event called "Legends".
In Legends, DC Introduces a reboot for the Justice League and an introduction of the 1st Suicide Squad.

Issue #401 of Batman is Chapter #1 of Legends.
I would consider this issue as being the 1st modern-age / Post-crisis issue of Batman.

[Buried Alien]

This was that still-mystifying twilight period that was neither fully Pre-COIE or Post-COIE, but seemed to mix elements of both. I think BATMAN wasn't firmly into Post-COIE until the conclusion of YEAR ONE.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[PurpleGlovez]

Batman #401 and Detective #568 are the official start of post-Crisis Batman; the beginning of Denny O'Neil's editorship and opening chapters of the Legends crossover.

Batman #392-400 take place after Crisis on Infinite Earths but are not part of post-Crisis continuity.

[Starrius]

Batman didn't have any issue and in fact you can read his stories forgetting that Crisis on the infinite Earths happened. Like Restingvoice suggested the only great change in Batman's life is about Catwoman: before Crisis Bruce was dating Selina and Catwoman (who weared the purple gown with the green cape) was officially a Batman's ally, then she desapeared for almost all the eighties, to reappear in the miniseries Catwoman of 1989 where she was exactly the Catwoman of the nineties: same psicology, same attitude, same relationship with Batman, same costume; but I don't remember the last apparition of the "pre-crisis" Catwoman.

Selina got abducted by the Joker and got turned back into a villain through a mind machine.
Before her brain was tampered with, Selina was completely reformed and wanted to be Bruce's crimefighting partner.


Catch as Catscan
Detective Comics Issue Number 569
December 1, 1986

At Gotham Medical Supply House, the Batman and Robin foil a burglary by Catman and his cat burglars. Catwoman helps the caped crusaders by apprehending Catman herself. At Jester Novelties Factory ,The Joker is depressed claiming his genius has flown until he sees the headlines of the days paper "Tthe Dynamic Duo and Catwoman join Forces."and laughing hysterically plans a new scheme.
Commisioner Gordon uses the Bat-signal to summon The Batman. They along with Catwoman respond to the call. Gordon tells them the Joker is back and has left a clue which the Batman deduces is that a rare edition of Joe Millers Joke Book is on exhibit at Gotham's Public Library and the Joker might attempt to steal it. The new crime fighting team proceed to the library where they find the Joker and his gang. Falling into the Jokers set-up the Catwoman is captured and taken away captive. Meanwhile the Batman and Robin are enveloped by the equivalent of a chinese finger puzzle that squeezes the air from their lungs. The more they struggle the tighter the deathtrap gets. The Batman focuses his mind and body to relax to escape realizing that any involuntary motion will crush him and Robin to death . He escapes and releases Robin from the deathtrap. Now with the Catwoman captive the Joker along with Dr. Moon and his catscan machine . Together they plan to test it recalibrating Catwoman's mind.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/detec...n/4000-113027/


The Last Laugh!
Detective Comics Issue Number 570
January 1, 1987

The Batman and Robin are searching for the Joker ,who recently abducted Catwoman. They visit McSurleys Bar to interogate Profile, an Information Broker. After a short interogation, Profile gives the Batman the Jokers whereabouts at Jester Novelties Factory. The Joker using Dr. Moon has recalibrated the Catwomans brain trying to find out the Batmans identity only to go hysterical when the Catwoman barely manages to say "Robert Redford". The Batman and Robin arrive at Jester Novelties factory and quickly dispatch Jokers Goons. The Batman finds the Joker in his hovercraft escaping with Catwoman. A brainwashed Catwoman gets up and knocks the Batman from the escaping hovercraft. The Batman is convinced that Joker is trying to turn Catwoman back to her old ways by setting up a Cat-Crime. The Batman realizes that Catwoman might commit a crime using the millionaire Benson's heiress who is in a cataleptic trance. Catwoman leads the Joker to the Bensons thinking that they are the Batman and Robin. Catwoman puts the Bensons in a Cat's Cradle. The Batman and Robin arrive foil the Joker plans and take on his goons saving the Bensons from the Joker and what he was planning. Catwoman waits for the Joker to climb up her catgut ladder as a means of escape only to have her cut it and leave him to the Batman to deal the Jokers punishment.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/detec...h/4000-113028/


After those issues, Selina seemed to have changed
thought that these issues were PreCrisis
but these issues were published after the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths


I am confused with the statement that she disappeared for almost all the eighties.

She was in comic issues throughout the 1980s

taking just 1980s into account


appeared in
1980
1981
1982
1983
1985
1986
1987
1989


1984 and 1988 are the only years in the 1980s that Selina didn't make an appearance in comics.

[Gotham citizen]

Selina got abducted by the Joker and got turned back into a villain through a mind machine.
Before her brain was tampered with, Selina was completely reformed and wanted to be Bruce's crimefighting partner.
[…]

I forgot that story: some part of my brain can't bear the use of the brainwash to change the attitude of a character; even when the change is good for the character: I think Catwoman works better like an antihero, than a hero or a villain..

[…]
I am confused with the statement that she disappeared for almost all the eighties.

My fault: I didn't remember when exactly she was brainwashed, so I made two or three mistake in that post that I corrected, but not the one you cited.

[superduperman]

Apparently Batman #400 came out on the same day as MOS #1:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-m...wn/4000-27236/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...ht/4000-27222/

If that's not a sign, I don't know what is!

[Tzigone]

I forgot that story: some part of my brain can't bear the use of the brainwash to change the attitude of a character; even when the change is good for the character: I think Catwoman works better like an antihero, than a hero or a villain..

I prefer the redemption and heroics. I can be okay with a sort of redeemed and anti-hero, if killing nonexistent-to-rare. I hate the full-on-murders easily version (including murdering innocent people) and the flip-flopping back and forth. Redemption is good, I think, while I respect the opinion of those who think she should remain a thief (but not a killer, as a general rule). But if she's redeemed, she needs to stay redeemed. Going back and forth just makes her frustrating and kills most of my interest in her either good or bad actions.

Apparently Batman #400 came out on the same day as MOS #1:

Neat.