Does DC have to many versions of the same superheroes?

[Digifiend]

Theres a lot of comics I don’t read but is The new Falcon even still around since Sam went back to the mantle?
I know Sam just Richard (Nova) recently came back is Sam still around somewhere?

Both are members of the Champions. That book's been on hiatus since October, but it's about to return with a new creative team.

[MadFacedKid]

The problem with...

wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

A BLACK MAN IN A WHITE MAN'S CLOTHES WITH A WHITE MAN'S NAME!!!
(you can apply this to other races, too).

...is that, not only is it extremely creatively lazy, the "diverse" character will always, without a shadow of a doubt, be in some subordinate position to the white character. John Stewart will likely never fully surpass Hal Jordan the way some of his fans want him to. Miles Morales will never be THE Spider-Man long-term. He has a major feature film, which is commendable, but even that spins him as an alternate universe knock off. Rather than build up diverse characters that can be the center of their own brand, the way Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne are, the diverse characters are second rate "family members" and they're only going to go so far like that. The sky is definitely not the limit. So when DC puts out Chinese Super-Man, Black Superman, Black Green Lantern, Black female Green Lanterns, fake Black Wally West (this one is doubly terrible), Black Power Girl (lol BLACK POWER Girl), another Black Superman--I can't even list all of these characters--I'm not over here fist pumping and patting them on the back for that. Actually, I criticize them for it. The best DC has in this regard is Black Lightning, who, as I see it, is a pretty weak character, though I realize that's subjective. A Black man called "black-something" who fights gangbangers and helps troubled youth in a black neighborhood. *yawn* How clever (and extremely limiting).

So, I'm not going to get into Black Lightning, and while the diverse knock offs are good enough for some people apparently, I'm at a point in my life where I don't see the point of investing in a second rate knock off of a major white hero...so if I'm looking to get into some diverse character, what do I have left? My best option is...Cyborg!?!?
Uuuuuhh...no thanks?

I guess I'm just too ahead of the time. But I do believe the time will eventually catch up with my own thinking and diverse knock offs and racebent white characters won't be good enough. They're not good enough for me right now, to tell you the truth. If DC or whoever wants to impress me, they're going to have to do better than that.

There’s been some variations of classic heroes I’ve enjoyed but I agree with you. There’s definitely no way a legacy character is going to surpass the main character especially when both are around. I’d rather see more Icon than Val-Zod or Calvin Ellis and I prefer the Supermen tbh. It’s just Icon isn’t dependent on Superman and that’s more important

[Agent Z]

Why does a legacy character need to surpass the original? Why can't they just be considered good characters in their own right? I'm under no delusion that Miles Morales will ever surpass Peter Parker and I think all or most fans know that. Doesn't make Miles a bad character.

[MadFacedKid]

Why does a legacy character need to surpass the original? Why can't they just be considered good characters in their own right? I'm under no delusion that Miles Morales will ever surpass Peter Parker and I think all or most fans know that. Doesn't make Miles a bad character.

I don’t think anyone is or was suggesting Miles is a bad character. The issue isn’t that characters minority or not shouldn’t be underneath and should eventually overtake the legacy name “Spider-Man” it’s that diversity a lot of the time for some reason tends to be using characters of ethnic background who don’t have much of a lore or won’t get get the same featuring due to being a side character that the main character gets.

Reason despite the fact that Static isn’t used much that his whole concept comes off better is that he’s a minority character who doesn’t have to play second fiddle to another character. He stands on his own merits.

Regardless my original point had nothing to do with diversity. DC overuses the legacy thing

[Stanlos]

Robins: Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Damion Wayne. Not to mention the ones that are not in continuity anymore.

Green Lantern: Hal, Kyle, John, just to name the most popular ones.

Flash: Guy, Barry, Wally

Do you think it deludes a moniker to have to many characters running around sporting it?

Or do you think the legacy angle is the most interesting thing about the DCU?

For Robins I understand that there is like a whole army of them, that 'anyone' can be a Robin. I have ROBINS on my reading queue but haven't gotten to it yet. But if what I have heard is true then yikes.

[Aahz]

And while Black Lightning has moved beyond his backyard in his new title, Batman is the headliner, so .... one step forward, one step sideways?

Since "Black Lightning" is a member of Outsiders since the early 80s (and Batman being used to sell the book in a similar way back than), and has way more appearances as member of this team then solo stories, this is not really a step in any direction.

[Aahz]

I think it's gotten way out of hand. The worst cases are the Robins and Green Lanterns.

The Batman franchise is at least strong enough for that many characters, opposed to the Green Lanterns.

[skyvolt2000]

They're also some of the few black characters from Marvel and DC that are original characters that are solo heroes, and another very prominent one is...well...a glorified African Chief. Can you see a pattern here?

That African Chief comes from an advance city that kept itself hidden for years. Until Coates got on the book and made Wakanda into a stereotypical African country to pander to UNfans-he was not stereotypical.

Part of the issue at BOTH companies is not enough folks willing to showcase or write black (let alone most POC) beyond limited stereotypes.

The villain Thunderball is a brilliant scientist that helped make some green guy named Bruce. Yet only Coates seems to remember that detail about him.
Blue Marvel is a brilliant scientist and hero that writers not named Al Ewing forget about.
Rocket Racer is also smart yet keeps getting written as a guy being a criminal to support Momma and his x number of siblings.
Alex Wilder isn't a dummy yet can't be in a book.
Night Thrasher created a team by himself and funded it. We are just now see him back.
Hotspot was smart enough to get into college before he got his powers. Yet look where he ended up.
Spectrum led the Avengers and what is she doing NOW?
Flint of the Inhumans has been shown to move asteroids the size of Earth and he can't get in a book.
Steel is a Doctor and a scientist.
Yet we can find a place for Duke Thomas & Wallace West to be marginalized, beat up, be submissive and do cameos in books.

It's almost like this "problem" you keep complaining about actually isn't a problem at all.

The issue is you tend to keep seeing the same type of black person versus a variety like the ones I listed above.

There is nothing wrong with Luke, Jefferson, Panther or Miles. What is wrong is where are the stories for Blue Marvel and the rest.

I am not limited to EVERY White female being like Harley or WW or Supergirl-I get to see Catwoman, Mera and the rest way more than others.

[mikelmcknight72]

For individual identities? The legacies are one of my favorite post-Crisis additions. I do agree about teams, though. I'm fine with, at most, three JL teams: Big 7/Satellite era style, JL Dark, JLI. Two Titans teams (Teen, Adults). One JSA mentoring legacies.

[Dr. Ellingham]

I look at it like this: DC is an IP house. Their main products are Superman, Batman, etc. They sometimes create multiple versions to appeal to different markets, different mediums, different eras. All bueno.

The issue is making a puzzle out of fitting this stuff together. Continuity (apparently) demands explaining how so many different versions of a property can co-exist. But they don't have to: If you're done with, say, Simon Baz...then just put him back on the shelf and forget about him. His fans will have to deal - until a creator comes along with the story and following to use him well once more.

And this can be applied to anything that has been tried, worked for however long, but was later rethought or redone. Keep creating Batmen, Wonder Women, Green Lanterns, etc. - just put the unused toys back on the shelf. Eventually readers will let go and move on. Well...most will.

[TheRay]

I don’t even recognize that. Having more people with the same name is just pointless.

[skyvolt2000]

And this can be applied to anything that has been tried, worked for however long, but was later rethought or redone. Keep creating Batmen, Wonder Women, Green Lanterns, etc. - just put the unused toys back on the shelf. Eventually readers will let go and move on. Well...most will.

Then you can't cry about sales.

Nobody asked for 10 Earth Green Lanterns. NOBODY. Yet because some in charge took issue with the popularity of certain ones-they thought burying that one and tossing out 3 more would work.

It didn't. Jessica & Simon held a book for 50 issues. Jessica is in DC Super Hero Girls. Guy & Kyle held long runs. John would have if not for certain employees.
Now you got one in Young Justice and one in a YA novel and Far Sector.

Now you got a messed up fandom with everybody at war with each other.

Shelving Jessica or John or Simon gets you called out on POC issues because the company FAILED to build the ones they already had up or kept finding excuses to bury Cassandra Cain or Steel or Vixen.

Not the fans fault for John on Justice League or Jessica in other media getting popular. THat is a company issue.

[Ascended]

With legacies and redundancies and Kid Flashes and Old Flashes and Regular Flashes and Diet Flashes, I think if you have so many characters that they don't all have a consistent book to appear in, then you have too many.

It depends on the franchise, past that. I myself like a good number of Bats (though we have too many right now) and Flashes (we could do with a couple more) but very few Supers (I think we're just over the limit) and Wonders (we have the exact right amount, they just need to hang out more).

Lanterns....I don't think the problem is that we have too many, but perhaps that they're not being utilized in the right way. They're treated like any other franchise with multiple, independent yet connected members, but maybe they need a different approach of some kind?

As for characters using the exact same name? Generally not a fan. It's fine for an experiment or short term gimmick or whatever, but I think you've got a split between the needs of the characters and the needs of the brand. You want the brand's flavor to be recognizable, but characters have to be unique, and that seems like a delicate balance.

[mathew101281]

Lanterns....I don't think the problem is that we have too many, but perhaps that they're not being utilized in the right way. They're treated like any other franchise with multiple, independent yet connected members, but maybe they need a different approach of some kind?

I've always felt that they should take the "Green lantern's as beat cops" analogy more literally and have precincts, rather then one Lantern per sector. One Lantern Per sector never made sense to me anyway. The sectors seemed way to big for one Lantern to police realistically anyway.

[Vampire Savior]

I've always felt that they should take the "Green lantern's as beat cops" analogy more literally and have precincts, rather then one Lantern per sector. One Lantern Per sector never made sense to me anyway. The sectors seemed way to big for one Lantern to police realistically anyway.

Honestly, John Broome didn't really think his concepts through well enough. He had an idea of a guy who is part of a super elite interstellar peace corps, with this ultra powerful weapon, then he literally started the dude out fighting clowns. I don't think the Green Lantern franchise has ever really reconciled this since. There's always been a very odd imbalance with it. If Green Lantern is going to fight clowns, bank robbers, and other various mooks, then no, one Lantern per sector doesn't make sense. If he's to defend against serious interstellar catastrophes and has the means to realistically do so, then it makes sense.