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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I wonder if the reason Orlando is leaving is due to freelance thing. But that’s unlikely
    Well he just got announced to be starting some Marvel work, so maybe that played a role lol

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    What would you say are the problematic aspects of his character? I know Rucka, back during his original run, emphasized that Psycho was kind of like a rapist. Is that what you're getting at?
    Marston's take on the character was horribly ableistic and leaned heavily into the "depraved dwarf" trope.

    Morrison easily modernised the character, by simply making him a little shorter than average and plain-looking. That was easily the best aspect of his Earth One story (which I'm not a fan of otherwise).

    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfDiana View Post
    I’ve been away from several years and the movie has stirred my interest. Is Wonder Woman still the daughter of Zeus and if so, is that still brought up or swept under the rug?
    Technically, it has not been contradicted yet, and it depends on the writer. Tynion and Orlando (and I think Robinson) has done references to Diana as the daughter of Zeus; Rucka swept that part fully under the rug (I can't imagine him being happy about daddy!Zeus); Wilson brought in clay birth references every time she could.

    With DiDio gone, I think the main obstacle of removing daddy!Zeus has disappeared, but like all bad ideas in comics, it's bound to return again sooner or later…
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #63
    Amazing Member SonOfDiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Still Zeus’s kid in Rebirth continuity but they’ve mostly simply ignored it.
    Thank you. I may pick up some issues and see how they are.

  4. #64
    Amazing Member SonOfDiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Marston's take on the character was horribly ableistic and leaned heavily into the "depraved dwarf" trope.

    Morrison easily modernised the character, by simply making him a little shorter than average and plain-looking. That was easily the best aspect of his Earth One story (which I'm not a fan of otherwise).



    Technically, it has not been contradicted yet, and it depends on the writer. Tynion and Orlando (and I think Robinson) has done references to Diana as the daughter of Zeus; Rucka swept that part fully under the rug (I can't imagine him being happy about daddy!Zeus); Wilson brought in clay birth references every time she could.

    With DiDio gone, I think the main obstacle of removing daddy!Zeus has disappeared, but like all bad ideas in comics, it's bound to return again sooner or later…
    Thank you. I may pick up some issues. I just can’t get over my hatred of the Zeus parentage so the less it’s referenced the better.

  5. #65
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Still Zeus’s kid in Rebirth continuity but they’ve mostly simply ignored it.
    It's almost like you can tell the good WW stories from the bad with how much they emphasize Zeus....

  6. #66
    Incredible Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    OK, I shall continue to not buy Wonder Woman. Call me when something cool happens. Until then I'll buy Dead Earth.
    “To the future or to the past. To a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone - to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: from the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink - greetings!" - Winston Smith

  7. #67
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    Without knowing anything for sure, I thought it was telling the way Rucka completely avoided the subject of Diana's birth during Year One, probably so as to not render his version of her origin story obsolete, whatever DC's final decision was on the subject. It was a strange omission, but considering he only had like five issues to tell her whole origin story in, it kind of works.

    KJN, the "depraved dwarf" angle completely flew over my head (that was actually a thing?). And I also didn't read any comic where it was explicitly stated that women's treatment of him motivated him to play games with their minds. I mean I know he was impersonating Veronica Cale's Senator boyfriend for a while during the original Rucka run, but I don't remember how much further it went than that. Did he sleep with her while in disguise? I'm not even sure how that makes any sense considering she would have to touch him and he'd have to be playing some pretty serious mind games for her to not notice she's touching a three foot tall man but seeing a six foot tall one.

    Can anybody summarize what this 5G business is? Are they giving Diana a new origin and saying she was the very first superheroine? That's what I'm understanding right now. Does that mean that Rucka's Year One is out?
    Last edited by DisneyBoy; 03-10-2020 at 03:13 PM.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCER View Post
    Same here. I really enjoy Steve Orlando's writing.

    The good takeaway here is I absolutely love Mike Janin's work, so I can't wait to see his take on Diana.

    Yeah, I have very mixed emotions about this. It seems like Orlando is good when DC is in a pinch until they find their "next big thing". On the flip side, I'm very excited for Janin to take over art duties.
    Currently Reading: Batman: Three Jokers, Death Metal, The Flash, Hawkman, Injustice: Year Zero, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Legion of Super Heroes, Shazam, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Marston's take on the character was horribly ableistic and leaned heavily into the "depraved dwarf" trope.

    Morrison easily modernised the character, by simply making him a little shorter than average and plain-looking. That was easily the best aspect of his Earth One story (which I'm not a fan of otherwise).
    I'm sorry, I like Dr. Psycho as he is, problematic or not. He's easily worth 3 Maxwell Lords. I'm usually in favor of all things p.c. but ruining a great villain because of it is just shortsighted and unnecessary. There's plenty depictions of positive Little People in multiple media, don't overhaul Edgar Cizko. It doesn't make any sense anyway when far more people see him on Harley Quinn.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    Without knowing anything for sure, I thought it was telling the way Rucka completely avoided the subject of Diana's birth during Year One, probably so as to not render his version of her origin story obsolete, whatever DC's final decision was on the subject. It was a strange omission, but considering he only had like five issues to tell her whole origin story in, it kind of works.
    My impression is that DC wanted daddy!Zeus to remain, so Rucka protested the only way he could.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    KJN, the "depraved dwarf" angle completely flew over my head (that was actually a thing?). And I also didn't read any comic where it was explicitly stated that women's treatment of him motivated him to play games with their minds.
    It's most definitely a thing. TVTropes even uses Doctor Psycho as their trope image.

    If you read Wonder Woman #5 by Marston, it's a hot mess of ableism, misogyny, and incel thinking.

    So I think original Doctor Psycho should be out, but the concep to of the mind-controlling misogynist just fits so well as an antagonist to Wonder Woman.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfDiana View Post
    Thank you. I may pick up some issues and see how they are.
    I'd also check out Historia whenever the hell it actually comes out lol.

    I believe the author at one point mentioned she would be using the clay birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    KJN, the "depraved dwarf" angle completely flew over my head (that was actually a thing?). And I also didn't read any comic where it was explicitly stated that women's treatment of him motivated him to play games with their minds. I mean I know he was impersonating Veronica Cale's Senator boyfriend for a while during the original Rucka run, but I don't remember how much further it went than that. Did he sleep with her while in disguise? I'm not even sure how that makes any sense considering she would have to touch him and he'd have to be playing some pretty serious mind games for her to not notice she's touching a three foot tall man but seeing a six foot tall one.
    Kjn beat me to it, but I have to agree that Wonder Woman #5 is one of the more horribly dated issues in how it treats Psycho. His wife Marva isn't very pleasant to him even before he goes evil and acts embarrassed to even be seen with him. She ultimately remains more sympathetic and how he reacts goes way too far, but I think Morrison had the best take of the character that avoids the abelist tropes and still presents the core things the character represents. And actually made him more relevant than he ever has been.

  12. #72
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think modern Psycho is fine as is without needing to go for the Morrison revamp. Nobody really made much of a fuss about Psycho being this short, misogynistic, cantankerous tool in animated form.

  13. #73
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'd also check out Historia whenever the hell it actually comes out lol.

    I believe the author at one point mentioned she would be using the clay birth.



    Kjn beat me to it, but I have to agree that Wonder Woman #5 is one of the more horribly dated issues in how it treats Psycho. His wife Marva isn't very pleasant to him even before he goes evil and acts embarrassed to even be seen with him. She ultimately remains more sympathetic and how he reacts goes way too far, but I think Morrison had the best take of the character that avoids the abelist tropes and still presents the core things the character represents. And actually made him more relevant than he ever has been.
    The best Dr. Psycho has ever been was in that one issue of the Odyssey where he professed his love for Diana, despite their enmity, and helped her find her way in a sort of time-out to being evil, based on that unrequited love. He was incredibly sympathetic there and I can see his side in his dealings with Marva in the Golden Age too. As stated before she was incredibly deplorable and so was everyone else in their treatment of him. That's what makes him a great villain, despite how vile he is, on some level you can feel sorry for him.

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemisfanboy View Post
    No, but I figured he'd be on the book until the relaunch at least. There seems to have been lot more laying the foundation for plots during his run which aren't likely to get pay off.

    It really feels like an abrupt replacement.
    Yeah, it does feel that way. But it might just be run of the mill DC doing run of the mill DC things. Or it could be a big change in 5G plans. Who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I can complain, it's too cartoony, Diana looks lanky, the skirts too long and the best part of the costume -the boots- don't appear to be armored. And what's with the pointy tips like elf shoes? Is she a ninja? Steve and Etta look okay though but hate that mohawk.
    Well, art is subjective....but I dunno if I've ever seen anyone else complain about Marquez.

    you uncultured philistine, you!
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #75
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    Whoops I forgot that Etta was black now and thought that was a man....

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