The first time Selina was taken seriously as an important love interest was Earth 2, were she immediatly died.
And Earth 2 Selina has not a lot in common with modern Selina.
I would say Talia was more important than Selina throughout the 70-90 in comics than Selina. Selina only really came back into focus with Hush.
Talia and Selina are the most known love interests, but if they were that important writers would have stopped introducing new ones. I encourage you to google Batman love interests.
Selina can't become a Lois Lane because her appeal is to be a criminal Bruce is attracted to, but they can't come together for a long time without making Bruce look bad. Bruce doesn't benefit from lampshading that.
So their story always ends in breakup, as Batman love stories always do. I don't expect his current relationship with Selina to be any different.
Tynion does good work adressing the problems in their relationship that King ignored.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me Talia was important only during the seventies, because during the eighties the focus was on Nocturna and then on Catwoman, who became Bruce's mate both in the life than against the crime. Then, during the nineties and after the Selina brainwashing that turned her in the character we know (late eighties), Bruce didn't have any real sentimental interest, but the relationship with Catwoman was still there like a fire under the ashes; you can have some example of that in "No men's land", when Batman asked for Catwoman help or during the story "Heat" (Batman; legends of the dark knight 46/49), where Batman and Catwoman worked together to stop a serial killer.
Last edited by Gotham citizen; 03-16-2020 at 04:51 AM.
«It's like kids trying to write stories for adults or something.»
There is an huge difference among write a good story and try to write a great one.
«Heroism is not about being perfect or always winning, but breathing hope into the hopeless.»
Batman's world isn't realistic. It's grounded in psychological realism… In real life, Batman's crusade would be a horrible idea.[…] But in the world Batman inhabits, it not only makes sense, it's absolutely the right thing to do.
Even though I always was into the Batman/Catwoman romance, I think they are doomed. That's the hook. While we might want them to be together, we know they can't. Settling down and being happy together is not their fate.
Modern Bruce doesn't have much in common with his prior versions either. These characters are both bigger than any one specific version. What of it?
I think Talia has the edge in the 70s-80, but not by as much as you think. And a lot of Selina's popularity comes form her presence in other media though, which is more important than the mainstream comics because it reaches a far wider audience. her presence there dwarfs Talia, who didn't start appearing there before BTAS. And Selina was there too, plus got a popular and iconic movie appearance at the same time.
I don't need to be encouraged to look up more love interests. I know they keep churning them out, but they also keep falling by the wayside. Usually because they are only designed for one specific story or nobody but the original author is interested in using them.
Selina and Talia stick around and endure more than the majority of the others for a reason.
As I said already, modern Bruce does plenty of things to make himself look bad. Selina doesn't compromise him in any way, neither does Talia on her better days. He's arguably a worse criminal than her at this point. He shouldn't be, but he is.
We know the real reason Bruce's stories end in a breakup: he needs to keep being Batman to tell stories and make $$. When we have a version that is retiring and his story is ending, we have examples of him retiring with Selina pretty easily (Earth-2 and Nolan). That's not a good reason to say she can't be a Lois Lane because not all endgame love interests fit the same mold. But she's the closest one form his franchise to get to that level, especially when we look at more than just the comics. Even Lois is more well known for being Superman's #1 love interest, but necessarily his wife to the wider audience.
I think them not being able to have a happy ending is one believable fate for them.
But a happy ending is believable to, especially when a version of Batman is actually allowed to end. The real reason they do the will they/won't they is because we can't have an end to ongoing Batman stories.
I think Bruce loves Gotham more than anything else and willl always choose it over any relationship. However if he has to be with someone I would favor Zatana, she is the best match for Bruce.
Before 2012, the only love interests of Batman that I knew about were Catwoman and Vicky Vale.
I liked Catwoman as a love interest for Batman since I was a little kid in 1970s.
It started with the Batman movie with Adam West as Batman and Lee Meriwether as Catwoman.
I actually like Lee more than Julie Newmar as Catwoman.
The Batman Returns movie made me like Catwoman as Batman's love interest even more.
The chemistry between Michael Keaton's Batman and Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman was excellent.
The chemistry between Christian Bale's Catwoman and Anne Hathaway's Catwoman was alright but didn't stand out like Michael and Michelle's.
Too bad Eva Green didn't play Catwoman. She would have nailed it!
I can't wait to see Robert Pattinson's Batman and Zoe Kravitz's Catwoman interact with each other on the big screen.
If the writers completely reformed Catwoman like they did in the mid-80s, she'd make an excellent partner for Batman.
I'd buy Catwoman a lot more than Harley Quinn as a reformed criminal turned crimefighter.
Last edited by Starrius; 03-16-2020 at 06:09 PM.
I created a thread about Dick Grayson/Nightwing and Koriand'r/Starfire. It is to acknowledge and honor their iconic and popular relationship.
I created a fan page about Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson. This page is for all the Spider-Marriage fans.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you. And #355 was such an odd issue anyway, since the writer didn't know Selina didn't know Bruce was Batman (so it was discarded from canon). I did have some issues, though. No matter how logical, I simply very much dislike the power imbalance of him knowing her identity and her not knowing his. It's fine for a new love interest with no secret identity, but I don't like the inequality of it, especially with their history of knowing each other. Hate him "inspiring" her in Year One for oddly similar reasons. I do recall him being a bit jerkish to her at some time during the latter bronze age, but can't recall exactly when. I just vaguely recall him with a "my way or highway" attitude on something and being annoyed when she (in tears?) chose his way. But I can't even remember context on that for sure.
Selina didn't matter for a decade (and probably wasn't that huge to start), but the campy 60s show (which had much more murderous than her early comic appearances) brought her back to attention. I've always preferred the version that didn't kill (or at least would only do so in defense of self or others). I like that the idea that she turns hero....and then stays hero. The back-and-forth on villain-hood is annoying and irritating in the sense that you feel like nothing she does in either role matters because it's just going to be swept under the rug later when she switches sides again. I also like a Batman who isn't compromising his own moral to be with a thief or killer. And prefer the non (or at least less) emotionally damaged Bruce of that era.
Frankly, I didn't like Talia in the '70s issues (I was already prepped to dislike her from other media, and she was fine with kidnapping Robin or forcing Batman to marry her without his consent), but I do think she was more important there. I don't think she mattered very much in the '80s. Certainly not in the latter part, anyway.
Silver seemed very important to Bruce at the time, but from a fan perspective, she wasn't there long enough to make much impression. At least her purpose wasn't to die...then. Julie, the fiancee, was just so very forgettable to Bruce in the Golden Age that I could never support that pairing.
Last edited by Tzigone; 03-25-2020 at 06:55 PM.
Other than Susan Maguire, how many characters has Batman actually married?
I feel a little sorry for Julie. She was his actual fiancee and so unimportant/forgotten for so long. And he seemingly never considered telling his fiancee he was Batman. I kinda figure he just took Dick home without talking to her first. I wonder how she reacted to finding out that she was going to be a "stepmom" in a few months.Then you have elseworlds where he marries Kathy Kane or Julie Madison.
This. It depends on which version of Batman you're talking about. IMO, these are the "One True Loves" of the "Canon" Comic Book Batmen:
Golden Age: Catwoman if we take Earth 2 into Account.
Silver Age: Batwoman
Bronze Age: Silver St. Cloud
Post-Crisis: Catwoman & Talia
New 52: I'd say no one
Rebirth: Catwoman
Then you have the iconic media versions:
'66: Crime Fighting
Burton/Schumacher: Ultimately No one
Timm: Andrea Beaumont
Nolan: Catwoman
Arkham Games: Talia