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Thread: Best Bat-wife

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    And Talia wants him to join the League of Assassins.

    There's a Batman quote about why he avoids Bekka. Being in Bekka's presence makes him feel like his avoidance of romance is creepy and unnatural. "Sometimes I wonder if I'm even human anymore. Sex, love... even the slightest yearning I've repressed and rechanneled into the Almighty Will. How perverse it feels in her(Bekka) presence. Every relationship was a charade, or some reluctant excursion I knew I would never complete."
    You simplify original Talia a bit too much with this statement. Talia's original arc was also on arc of trying to get free from Ra's and the LoA.
    DC has really butchered her over the last decade and I hope more people start to see that.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You're mistaken if you think doing that would fix Batman or that she's even one of the causes.

    Only a full blown reboot is going to fix him now. The rot was setting in as early as the 90s. Selina isn't compromising him morally, he often does it all by himself due to bad writing that has sadly had a cumulative effect.



    I think you're seriously underestimating how long it's been. Since at least the 70s she's been one of the main ones in the main comics. She was in TDKR as an old flame for a reason whereas I don't believe any of the others were even referenced. I imagine Pfeiffer's Catwoman would win the polls for most popular love interest in the 90s films. Stuff like the Adam West show made her a household name. Both of which in turn likely lead to Nolan using her as the endgame romance. We'll see what Reeves has in store for Pattison and Kravitz, but she's the only love interest confirmed in the move so far. Much like the Batman-Joker dynamic, directors seem eager to put their own stamp on Bruce-Selina.

    Couples dress as them for Halloween and the casuals know why. This has been going on for at least 4-5 decades, in and (more importantly) outside of comics.




    There's a reason Julie got phased out and that Vicki never really took off as anything other than Gotham Lois Lane: they are not particularly memorable or exciting even compared to other superhero civilian love interests like Lois or Mary Jane. And everyone assumed they were just beards and Batman and Robin was the real romance anyway That's even the legit reason Kathy Kane was even invented.

    Who was the most important one in the comics? If it was Talia, it was mainly while O'Neil was in charge. And the impact outside of comics is more important anyway. She hasn't achieve Lois Lane or Mary Jane there, but she's really the only one to come close in addition to being a popular character in her own right.
    The first time Selina was taken seriously as an important love interest was Earth 2, were she immediatly died.
    And Earth 2 Selina has not a lot in common with modern Selina.
    I would say Talia was more important than Selina throughout the 70-90 in comics than Selina. Selina only really came back into focus with Hush.
    Talia and Selina are the most known love interests, but if they were that important writers would have stopped introducing new ones. I encourage you to google Batman love interests.

    Selina can't become a Lois Lane because her appeal is to be a criminal Bruce is attracted to, but they can't come together for a long time without making Bruce look bad. Bruce doesn't benefit from lampshading that.
    So their story always ends in breakup, as Batman love stories always do. I don't expect his current relationship with Selina to be any different.
    Tynion does good work adressing the problems in their relationship that King ignored.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    The true love of Batman is whatever character DC currently chose for that role and it changes over time.
    Well the comment he made about Bekka suggests his one true love is being a crimefighter.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 03-16-2020 at 12:27 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    The true love of Batman is whatever character DC currently chose for that role and it changes over time.
    DC shall obey me ! SELINA FOREVER !!!!!

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    You simplify original Talia a bit too much with this statement. Talia's original arc was also on arc of trying to get free from Ra's and the LoA.
    DC has really butchered her over the last decade and I hope more people start to see that.
    I was thinking of Batman: TAS Talia.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    […]
    I would say Talia was more important than Selina throughout the 70-90 in comics than Selina.
    […]
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me Talia was important only during the seventies, because during the eighties the focus was on Nocturna and then on Catwoman, who became Bruce's mate both in the life than against the crime. Then, during the nineties and after the Selina brainwashing that turned her in the character we know (late eighties), Bruce didn't have any real sentimental interest, but the relationship with Catwoman was still there like a fire under the ashes; you can have some example of that in "No men's land", when Batman asked for Catwoman help or during the story "Heat" (Batman; legends of the dark knight 46/49), where Batman and Catwoman worked together to stop a serial killer.

  7. #52
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    Even though I always was into the Batman/Catwoman romance, I think they are doomed. That's the hook. While we might want them to be together, we know they can't. Settling down and being happy together is not their fate.
    🇨🇦

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    The first time Selina was taken seriously as an important love interest was Earth 2, were she immediatly died.
    And Earth 2 Selina has not a lot in common with modern Selina.
    Modern Bruce doesn't have much in common with his prior versions either. These characters are both bigger than any one specific version. What of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    I would say Talia was more important than Selina throughout the 70-90 in comics than Selina. Selina only really came back into focus with Hush.
    Talia and Selina are the most known love interests, but if they were that important writers would have stopped introducing new ones. I encourage you to google Batman love interests.
    I think Talia has the edge in the 70s-80, but not by as much as you think. And a lot of Selina's popularity comes form her presence in other media though, which is more important than the mainstream comics because it reaches a far wider audience. her presence there dwarfs Talia, who didn't start appearing there before BTAS. And Selina was there too, plus got a popular and iconic movie appearance at the same time.
    I don't need to be encouraged to look up more love interests. I know they keep churning them out, but they also keep falling by the wayside. Usually because they are only designed for one specific story or nobody but the original author is interested in using them.

    Selina and Talia stick around and endure more than the majority of the others for a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    Selina can't become a Lois Lane because her appeal is to be a criminal Bruce is attracted to, but they can't come together for a long time without making Bruce look bad. Bruce doesn't benefit from lampshading that.
    As I said already, modern Bruce does plenty of things to make himself look bad. Selina doesn't compromise him in any way, neither does Talia on her better days. He's arguably a worse criminal than her at this point. He shouldn't be, but he is.

    We know the real reason Bruce's stories end in a breakup: he needs to keep being Batman to tell stories and make $$. When we have a version that is retiring and his story is ending, we have examples of him retiring with Selina pretty easily (Earth-2 and Nolan). That's not a good reason to say she can't be a Lois Lane because not all endgame love interests fit the same mold. But she's the closest one form his franchise to get to that level, especially when we look at more than just the comics. Even Lois is more well known for being Superman's #1 love interest, but necessarily his wife to the wider audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Even though I always was into the Batman/Catwoman romance, I think they are doomed. That's the hook. While we might want them to be together, we know they can't. Settling down and being happy together is not their fate.
    I think them not being able to have a happy ending is one believable fate for them.
    But a happy ending is believable to, especially when a version of Batman is actually allowed to end. The real reason they do the will they/won't they is because we can't have an end to ongoing Batman stories.

  9. #54
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    I think Bruce loves Gotham more than anything else and willl always choose it over any relationship. However if he has to be with someone I would favor Zatana, she is the best match for Bruce.

  10. #55
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    Before 2012, the only love interests of Batman that I knew about were Catwoman and Vicky Vale.
    I liked Catwoman as a love interest for Batman since I was a little kid in 1970s.
    It started with the Batman movie with Adam West as Batman and Lee Meriwether as Catwoman.
    I actually like Lee more than Julie Newmar as Catwoman.

    The Batman Returns movie made me like Catwoman as Batman's love interest even more.
    The chemistry between Michael Keaton's Batman and Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman was excellent.

    The chemistry between Christian Bale's Catwoman and Anne Hathaway's Catwoman was alright but didn't stand out like Michael and Michelle's.
    Too bad Eva Green didn't play Catwoman. She would have nailed it!

    I can't wait to see Robert Pattinson's Batman and Zoe Kravitz's Catwoman interact with each other on the big screen.


    If the writers completely reformed Catwoman like they did in the mid-80s, she'd make an excellent partner for Batman.
    I'd buy Catwoman a lot more than Harley Quinn as a reformed criminal turned crimefighter.
    Last edited by Starrius; 03-16-2020 at 06:09 PM.
    I created a thread about Dick Grayson/Nightwing and Koriand'r/Starfire.
    It is to acknowledge and honor their iconic and popular relationship.
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...rfire-1975639/

    I created a fan page about Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson.
    This page is for all the Spider-Marriage fans.
    http://www.facebook.com/SpiderManMaryJane/

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    Selina Kyle, Pre-Crisis, 1978 - 1981 - Detective Comics #479 - 509, Batman #308 - #326.

    I especially loved the Len Wein-era relationship that Selina Kyle and Bruce Wayne genuinely strived to have, complete with dinners, walking, talking, dancing, kissing.

    And, that despite a few creeping fears that it would be "a matter of time" before Catwoman would revert back to her thieving, criminal ways, was averted when, when next putted on costume, she would be working alongside Batman. And, for the remainder of the Pre-Crisis period, except for that time she attempted to murder Vicki Vale, in a fit of jealous rage, in Batman #355.
    I'm pretty much in agreement with you. And #355 was such an odd issue anyway, since the writer didn't know Selina didn't know Bruce was Batman (so it was discarded from canon). I did have some issues, though. No matter how logical, I simply very much dislike the power imbalance of him knowing her identity and her not knowing his. It's fine for a new love interest with no secret identity, but I don't like the inequality of it, especially with their history of knowing each other. Hate him "inspiring" her in Year One for oddly similar reasons. I do recall him being a bit jerkish to her at some time during the latter bronze age, but can't recall exactly when. I just vaguely recall him with a "my way or highway" attitude on something and being annoyed when she (in tears?) chose his way. But I can't even remember context on that for sure.

    Selina didn't matter for a decade (and probably wasn't that huge to start), but the campy 60s show (which had much more murderous than her early comic appearances) brought her back to attention. I've always preferred the version that didn't kill (or at least would only do so in defense of self or others). I like that the idea that she turns hero....and then stays hero. The back-and-forth on villain-hood is annoying and irritating in the sense that you feel like nothing she does in either role matters because it's just going to be swept under the rug later when she switches sides again. I also like a Batman who isn't compromising his own moral to be with a thief or killer. And prefer the non (or at least less) emotionally damaged Bruce of that era.

    Frankly, I didn't like Talia in the '70s issues (I was already prepped to dislike her from other media, and she was fine with kidnapping Robin or forcing Batman to marry her without his consent), but I do think she was more important there. I don't think she mattered very much in the '80s. Certainly not in the latter part, anyway.

    Silver seemed very important to Bruce at the time, but from a fan perspective, she wasn't there long enough to make much impression. At least her purpose wasn't to die...then. Julie, the fiancee, was just so very forgettable to Bruce in the Golden Age that I could never support that pairing.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-25-2020 at 06:55 PM.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Other than Susan Maguire, how many characters has Batman actually married?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Other than Susan Maguire, how many characters has Batman actually married?
    There's so many different continuities it's difficult to answer.
    Earth 2 Batman married Selina Kyle.
    Some versions of Batman were sort of married to Talia.
    Then you have elseworlds where he marries Kathy Kane or Julie Madison.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Then you have elseworlds where he marries Kathy Kane or Julie Madison.
    I feel a little sorry for Julie. She was his actual fiancee and so unimportant/forgotten for so long. And he seemingly never considered telling his fiancee he was Batman. I kinda figure he just took Dick home without talking to her first. I wonder how she reacted to finding out that she was going to be a "stepmom" in a few months.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    The true love of Batman is whatever character DC currently chose for that role and it changes over time.
    This. It depends on which version of Batman you're talking about. IMO, these are the "One True Loves" of the "Canon" Comic Book Batmen:

    Golden Age: Catwoman if we take Earth 2 into Account.
    Silver Age: Batwoman
    Bronze Age: Silver St. Cloud
    Post-Crisis: Catwoman & Talia
    New 52: I'd say no one
    Rebirth: Catwoman

    Then you have the iconic media versions:

    '66: Crime Fighting
    Burton/Schumacher: Ultimately No one
    Timm: Andrea Beaumont
    Nolan: Catwoman
    Arkham Games: Talia

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