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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Allow me to simplfy things for, i had training with a sword. I learned kendo for the heck of it. It can be learned by anyone, at any age. I can be a samurai if pledge myself to a master. Superman can learn kendo and he is a paragon so can pledge himself. He can be a samurai. Batman can be a samurai. You can be a samurai . A ninja is different.
    Actually, the samurai used to recruit people from childhood as well. So, sorry, if Batman can't be a ninja, Superman can't be a samurai. Simple as that.

    Sure, that's basically how they do it. It isn't recruitment more like kidnapping . Bruce wayne was above the age margin for the recruitment process. Bruce was 10 or something . It is largely exclusive societies.
    So, 10 is too old? Dude, this conversation is pointless. Again, Batman: Ninja didn't even feature Batman becoming a ninja. However, yes, Bruce has trained in ninjutsu. Mastered it, to be exact.

    Who said i had no problem with the irishman being ra' s? I did.
    Well, that's it's own issue.

    Well, guess what? Ninja's are assassin's. If bruce doesn't like their code of conduct or ethics. He cannot be a part of them. He didn't chose, he failed by not following the sencho's order.two things, following orders is absolute for a ninja. A ninja must get rid of his emotions. Bruce wayne is emo goth.
    The point is that it wasn't because Bruce wasn't skilled enough. In fact, Bruce was more than skilled enough, as evidenced by the fact that he beat the League of Assassins.

    Also, anyone who calls Batman an "emo goth" probably hasn't read much Batman.

    And for the same billionth time, then it's false advertising. making karate kid about kung fu is also nonsense.
    The point is though, that it wasn't really a "change" of the Batman mythos.

    Dude, you said that already. First issue was set in Metropolis. Predating something doesn't mean it was cemented. Smallville was suburban region of metropolis, originally. They weren't the countryside Nor was Clark being a farmer ever relevant or even true. He didn't do anything farmers did. Look at smallville tv series, that guy is a farmer through and through.
    You do know that "suburbs" actually tend to be quite rural. I grew up in the suburbs and there was a lot of farmland around where I grew up. Also, here's a page from issue #11 of that same series:



    That looks like a lot of farmland that Clark is leaping over if you ask me. Also, in issue #12, it shows Clark doing a lot of chores around the farmhouse. But furthermore, the farm boy thing again predated any of this and later became 100% cemented as the classic set up for how Superman was raised.

    Martial arts are different types and have different training method. Some require a life, from child hood to master. For instance, many martial practices in india require you to stay with your guru from childhood and learn.
    Well, Batman has been stated, in canon, as having mastered 137 different martial arts.

    Furthermore, batman used ninja for marketing.Batman anime manga was produced by the company. There was literally one anime movie(gotham knight) before ninja. That's it.
    And at least a few manga series. And again, so what if it was produced by the company? Everything involving these characters is "produced by the company."

    They create martial arts of their own culture,with inspiration from other cultures like chinese, Korean and indian. There is difference between that and outsiders perspective. American did same **** with godzilla. Godzilla was about Japanese trauma about atomic bomb. The Americans took it, lo and behold! An american protagonist and american perspective for their audience.
    Didn't you just say that Superman becoming a samurai, despite never having any sort of Japanese cultural ties before, is no problem?

    Sasuke, neji.. Etc got dojutsu. Naruto got kyubi. Harry potter having chaos in him is pretty much "nature". Kyubi was also antagonist.
    What?

    Why did heracles marry hera's daughter? Why was that plot point required? Because raising someone requires you to impact the character of the person. It pains me but i have my biological parents in me to a great deal. Bruce has thomas wayne and martha wayne in him, but never alfred.
    Again, Hera didn't raise Heracles and never acted in a motherly capacity toward him. And Alfred very much does impact Bruce's character. What makes you think he doesn't?

    I said, two sets of parents one for nature and another for nurture . I had no set no criteria for number of contents or types or even nature of relationship with eachother.

    Here is my original comment regarding the universal hero archetype.
    When you say "two sets of parents," the most obvious interpretation is that you mean four people (i.e. two pairs of two). It was only after I pointed out that not all heroes fit that mold that you were like "I really meant that a "set of parents" can be just one person."

    You can. Company can say whatever they want. The books themselves do not portray alfred as bruce's parent. If and when i start seeing alfred in bruce then i will believe it.
    You mean the company that owns the character we're talking about? Or the books you apparently don't read?

    But if you want examples of Alfred being shown as Bruce's guardian, just off the top of my head, I can think of the War Games arc and Dark Victory, both of which, I'm pretty sure, have flashbacks to Bruce's youth where Alfred is shown being his guardian. Either way, though, the canon clearly states that Alfred was Bruce's legal guardian. That's just a fact and it doesn't change just because you don't see it.

    It does. Trust me, dude.We are stuck with family and you can't get it out of your system. A family member ain't like girlfriend. It's much, much, much harder to get rid off.Sanji was raised by zeff and is his father. He didn't want anything to do with his "father". But, at the end of the day his father is also his father and he saved him.
    Well, its a lot easier when you were not raised by that person nor are you related to them. Some would say that actually doesn't make them your family.

    That's later nonsense. Where superman has denounced his vigilante side and comics code came to be. When they started "clark you must help people with police" thing. Furthermore, pa and ma started spoonfed ridiculous morality that has no basis and is laughable when it comes to depth from actual parents.
    Didn't you just say "predated doesn't mean cemented." The interpretation of Ma and Pa Kent that made Clark's costume for him isn't any less valid. They approve of Clark's vigilantism. And again, according to the dictionary, a vigilante is any "self-appointed doer of justice." Superman definitely fits that definition.

    But, wouldn't the fact that the GCPD has the Bat-signal and frequently calls Batman in to work on cases, mean that under your logic, Batman wouldn't be a vigilante??

    That's for getting people's attention. Also, the lose translation of ubermensch,makes it seem like superman fits. He doesn't. Superman is zarathustra. He dostoevsky's jesus in the grand inquisitor. He is basically the church. He fails precisely for the same.The church or many other religious institution is also aspirational for many. But, that is exactly what nietzsche was against. Clark kent ignores dark desires or doesn't have them. He is untouched by the seven deadly sin.
    Again, just telling you what most people say. I don't even want to go down this rabbit hole.

    Did i say that donner movies aren't ? Without max fleischer cartoons starwars sword fights will be stick fights. Godzilla, iron giant, miyazaki movies... Etc are all influenced by the cartoons. Donner was the reason those movies were remotely good for the time. And wb basically threw him out. They would have. But, paramount is the one approaching seeing superman's success if i remember. Furthermore,that still doesn't change dc is largely has been not successful with their ips not named batman.
    Well, Wonder Woman and Aquaman would like to say hi to you. And again, the reason why Superman's media adaptations have been lackluster, except for the Donner films, is not because they haven't invested in him or don't push him. The fact that those movies exist is evidence that they do.

    P.S. Silly me, I forgot to mention Smallville, which was a hit show that ran for 10 years.

    Max fleischer cartoons,George reeves, maybe donner movies had been great. Everything with superman has been mediocre with wb and dc.
    Well, a lot of that stuff was made by DC and/or WB.

    Yeah! Right. With prep he always smokes everyone, everytime .
    Again, no, he doesn't. Ever read Hiketeia?

    They have. But then s would just be a new symbol. And the british conquered almost the entire world and has infiltrated almost country's boundary . An english alphabet is fairly familiar.
    Didn't you just say this a few posts back?

    There are people who don't know english around the world.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-24-2020 at 07:36 AM.

  2. #92
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quite a rabbit hole here. Can I just ask for a more civil tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    the term "superhero" dates back to 1917, about 21 years before Superman's debut.
    Weird. Where did the term come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Does DC re-assign creative talent, or does the talent not want to stick around for long?
    Depends on what you mean by talent. But I think Bendis, Jurgens, and Tomasi are the ones who have best prepared for a long haul in a really long time.

    I feel like Superman has exhausted the regular comic circles though and that they should get major writers from elsewhere when the chance comes up (Yang proves to be a great pick as time goes on).
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  3. #93
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Actually, the samurai used to recruit people from childhood as well. So, sorry, if Batman can't be a ninja, Superman can't be a samurai. Simple as that.



    So, 10 is too old? LOL. Dude, this conversation is pointless. Again, Batman: Ninja didn't even feature Batman becoming a ninja. However, yes, Bruce has trained in ninjutsu. Mastered it, to be exact.

    The point is that it wasn't because Bruce wasn't skilled enough. In fact, it was because Bruce was more than skilled enough, as evidenced by the fact that he beat the League of Assassins.

    Also, anyone who calls Batman an "emo goth" probably hasn't picked up an issue of Batman in their life.

    The point is though, that it wasn't really a "change" of the Batman mythos.



    You do know that "suburbs" actually tend to be quite rural. I grew up in the suburbs and, guess what, there was a lot of farmland around where I grew up. Also, here's a page from issue #11 of that same series:

    Huh, that looks like a lot of farmland that Clark is leaping over if you ask me. Also, in issue #12, it shows Clark doing a lot of chores around the farmhouse. So, are you sure you've read this series?? But furthermore, the farm boy thing again predated any of this and later became 100% cemented as the classic set up for how Superman was raised.

    Yet, didn't you just say that Superman becoming a samurai, despite never having been tied to any sort of Japanese culture before, is no problem whatsoever?



    What are you even talking about here?



    Again, Hera didn't raise Heracles and never acted in a motherly capacity toward him. And Alfred very much does impact Bruce's character. Like, what makes you think he doesn't??



    When you say "two sets of parents," the most obvious interpretation is that you mean four people (i.e. two pairs of two). It was only after I pointed out that not all heroes fit that mold that you were like "oh never mind, I really meant that a "set of parents" can be just one person."



    Oh, you mean the company that owns the character we're talking about? Or the books you apparently don't read? You have a hard time admitting you were wrong, don't you?

    But if you want examples of Alfred being shown as Bruce's guardian, just off the top of my head, I can think of the War Games arc and Dark Victory, both of which, I'm pretty sure, have flashbacks to Bruce's youth where Alfred is shown being his guardian.

    Also, the "slave morality" point makes no sense.



    Well, its a lot easier when you were not raised by that person nor are you related to them. Some would say that actually doesn't make them your family.



    Didn't you just say "predated doesn't mean cemented." The interpretation of Ma and Pa Kent that made Clark's costume for him isn't any less valid. They approve of Clark's vigilantism. And again, according to the freaking dictionary, a vigilante is any "self-appointed doer of justice." Superman definitely fits that definition.

    But, wouldn't the fact that the GCPD has the Bat-signal and frequently calls Batman in to work on cases, mean that under your logic, Batman wouldn't be a vigilante??



    Again, just telling you what most people say. Not even trying to go down this rabbit hole with you.



    Well, Wonder Woman and Aquaman would like to say hi to you. And again, the reason why Superman's ******action adaptations have been lackluster, except for the Donner films, is NOT because they haven't invested in him or don't push him. The fact that those movies exist is evidence that they do.

    P.S. Silly me, I forgot to mention Smallville, which was a hit show that ran for 10 years.



    Well, a lot of that stuff was made by DC and/or WB.



    Lol. Again, no, he doesn't. Read more of the comics. Ever read Hiketeia?



    Didn't you just say this a few posts back?



    So, which is it?
    I registered just fine.

    No, it isn't necessary to be child soldier to be samurai. Samurai's are most of the time volunteers . Since, i learned kendo. Its basically fencing.

    Yes, it is. some traditions require you to start early. I can't compete with a kid who has been doing yoga since he was 5.but,i am pretty good at fencing and i can hold my own.i have put forward why that is bad in prior post regarding the title. Him learning to throw a dart means nothing and nothing for that.


    You brought it up.


    He wasn't skilled enough,though.he never could take down ra's and used other resources to beat the league. He failed his exam. If you fail graduation you aren't graduate.

    Right, "goth"am doesn't have connotation of goth at all and batman is never being two angsty/s

    A detective with combat skill to japanese assassins is change in character. Just like vigilante strongman to samurai knight is conceptual change


    You and i both know, there is difference between suburbs and countryside. that image is from paris, epernay . Clark went to meet his pen-pal pierre. In issue#12, he goes to lost mesa to help a friend. He helps him in farming to clear his friend's grandfather's name on that farm. He is not a farmer. In the next adventure , he does household chores. He doesn't do farming. Talk about twisting things. You declaring it was cemented further back,doesn't mean anything to me.

    Because its backed by company. It is something that's natural getting over. Meanwhile, if i want good superman. I need to satisfy myself through other means.

    If i can learn kendo,superman can as well. If superman is willing to submit and go through everything a samurai is and its code. then i have no problem. But, character need to be an outsider and he should be treated as such. Superman can't be japanese,without becoming japanese.

    That voldemort giving harry ability doesn't negate him being great by nature. Naruto is also great by nature. In fact naruto is ridiculed for his talk no jutsu with neji. Naruto's father was hokage.Thus kyubi was sealed in naruto. Similarly, the potters were great wizards. Thus voldemort sought to kill them, leading to their deaths and harry getting the powers. He always had the potential.

    Devouring mother being motherly would defeat the point.Alfred is never building block towards bruce's greatness nor does he reorient bruce in society,with the exception of Darkknight trilogy. I have never seen bruce being influenced by or spurred on by actions or teachings both negative or positive in nature. It is always the tragedy, his obsession and quest for vengeance. Bruce has a master morality.


    That's your interpretation, Not my fault. I had never specified them to be pairs. I meant sets as in set theory, maths. It's a grouping which satisfy a condition or set of conditions. here if a kid has parents that can be put in two sets of nature and nurture category then the kid qualified.


    Company owning something mean. What? I look at the books themselves . Not propaganda and push by the company. And Yes, i do have trouble admitting when i am wrong. I am stubborn and competitive. But, i do admit when i feel i am in the wrong. If i have hurt somebody doubly so.i had read dark victory, it has alfred basically admitting what i am saying. It has alfred trying to be a more parental figure to dick. Bruce has always had the loneliness in him.

    Slave and master morality is distinction made by nietzsche. Clark values traditional morality like compassion . Bruce values more morality with pride and power. He values more right and wrong.

    It isn't. how is blood relation not a relationship? Some might as outsiders, Its not that easy.You can't change your genes. Superman will forever be kal el of Krypton. He isn't just clark kent.


    I didn't say that. I said, farmboy thing wasn't cemented then (1945). only after later years and with donner movies was it cemented . Have i said later interpretation mean less valid? Only that later interpretations treat him like superhero, not a vigilante. He set up as messiah, an example... Etc. Self appointed doer of justice are those who take the law into their own hand. They aren't treated like superman is, nor do they act like superman. Superman is treated like a extention of justice system and police take selfies with him. Superman was last vigilante in the morrison's run. He acted and was treated like one in the run. Guess what? Parents dead.

    The same batsignal that gets broken by the same police most of the time. If it wasn't for gordon batman would be in jail. Even with him he isn't chummy like superman is. He is frenemies with police. Something i have already said. Spidey has the same relationship with daily bugle and the police. He isn't embraced like clark is.


    People say alot of things, see for yourself who fits better.if you haven't, Then Read the books of Neitzsche like beyond good and evil. While you are at it read jung's book, Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious. Read some of dostoevsky's works. You already know the zarathustra one. I would also recommend myth of sisyphus. Another thing that is more batman, than superman.

    Right, another mediocre series in the cw network. Again mcu, likes to say hi to you which forced wb. Wan and patty jenkins are the reason both movies did well. Not to mention the fact that these characters have been getting over despite dc . These guys have no idea what to do with superman.
    Not really,only donner movies. Even then donner couldn't last.

    tower of babel,dark knights metal... Etc. Batman beats up eveyone more times than the reverse.

    Knowing english And recognising English language symbols are two different things.

    Anyways, it's pretty obvious that we will keep this up. But i think that would bad for other people here. So,that was the last post on the topic for me. My main point was clark wasn't a farmer in those earlier years. That's a later thing,samurais and ninjas are different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Quite a rabbit hole here. Can I just ask for a more civil tone?
    Sorry for any uncivil behaviour from me.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-24-2020 at 07:45 AM.

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    guys, just let it go, you are not going to change your minds. Besides, in live action, I have never seen that amazing ninja Batman you talk about, especially Nolan's Batman. That dude is a terrible fighter lol. It's why I prefer Affleck. At least his Batman knew how to kick bvtt.

    Everybody has an opinion, but to me it's still pretty awesome that despite Superman not having big hit movies or whatever, many people still like him the best and are clearly hungry for more Superman on the big screen! Hopefully WB and DC open their eyes and deliver great content for the character in live action. That's what he needs, not controversial takes that only divide instead of unite. I think when Superman is done right, he's inspires and uplifts us. All the best Superman stories have done that, even Death of Superman.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 03-24-2020 at 09:40 AM.

  5. #95
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Quite a rabbit hole here. Can I just ask for a more civil tone?


    Weird. Where did the term come from?
    Dictionary.com traces the term back only to the 1960s. Online Etymology Dictionary says the modern usage of the term is from the 1960s.

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    guys, just let it go, you are not going to change your minds. Besides, in live action, I have never seen that amazing ninja Batman you talk about, especially Nolan's Batman. That dude is a terrible fighter lol. It's why I prefer Affleck. At least his Batman knew how to kick bvtt.
    Nolan couldn't shoot wide-angle fights. He tried sticking to the super up-close shaky cam (worst visual trend of the era) in the early movies, but by the time the third movie rolled around and he had to shoot wider angles for the one-on-many melees, the fights were visually uninteresting.

    While the execution might've been lacking, I preferred Nolan's take on how to choreograph Batman's fights than Snyder, but that's a consequence of Nolan's more grounded Batman. That choreography probably would've been laughed at in Justice League.

    Amid the pandemic, I've read or heard two more Superman-related things in the news:

    1) Andrew Cuomo admonished young people who ignored shelter-at-home orders, saying "You're not Superman and you're not Superwoman."

    2) Heroes don't wear capes.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 03-24-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  6. #96
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Went to Target on Sat, and I didn't find enough Superman merch, just one or 2 multiverse Superman action figures.. but there was a few Batman related stuff of course.. and even Wonder Woman clothing for girls. I'm glad for little girls who can wear their WW shirts and dresses, but why no love for Superman, DC/WB?? Not even one single shirt or underwear for boys. It sucks. I've seen him in Justice League shirts and pjs but not by himself much anymore.

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Dictionary.com traces the term back only to the 1960s. Online Etymology Dictionary says the modern usage of the term is from the 1960s.



    Nolan couldn't shoot wide-angle fights. He tried sticking to the super up-close shaky cam (worst visual trend of the era) in the early movies, but by the time the third movie rolled around and he had to shoot wider angles for the one-on-many melees, the fights were visually uninteresting.

    While the execution might've been lacking, I preferred Nolan's take on how to choreograph Batman's fights than Snyder, but that's a consequence of Nolan's more grounded Batman. That choreography probably would've been laughed at in Justice League.

    Amid the pandemic, I've read or heard two more Superman-related things in the news:

    1) Andrew Cuomo admonished young people who ignored shelter-at-home orders, saying "You're not Superman and you're not Superwoman."

    2) Heroes don't wear capes.
    I was underwhelmed. I did like other action scenes in his Batman movies, but I really don't care for a very grounded Batman take like Nolan's. One of the reasons I prefer Superman is because it's great escapism. I want to see extraordinary things I will never see in real life. I think Snyder sucks as an storyteller, but his visuals are strong.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Quite a rabbit hole here. Can I just ask for a more civil tone?
    Of course, I edited my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    No, it isn't necessary to be child soldier to be samurai. Samurai's are most of the time volunteers . Since, i learned kendo. Its basically fencing.

    Yes, it is. some traditions require you to start early. I can't compete with a kid who has been doing yoga since he was 5.but,i am pretty good at fencing and i can hold my own.i have put forward why that is bad in prior post regarding the title. Him learning to throw a dart means nothing and nothing for that.


    You brought it up.


    He wasn't skilled enough,though.he never could take down ra's and used other resources to beat the league. He failed his exam. If you fail graduation you aren't graduate.

    Right, "goth"am doesn't have connotation of goth at all and batman is never being two angsty/s

    A detective with combat skill to japanese assassins is change in character. Just like vigilante strongman to samurai knight is conceptual change


    You and i both know, there is difference between suburbs and countryside. that image is from paris, epernay . Clark went to meet his pen-pal pierre. In issue#12, he goes to lost mesa to help a friend. He helps him in farming to clear his friend's grandfather's name on that farm. He is not a farmer. In the next adventure , he does household chores. He doesn't do farming. Talk about twisting things. You declaring it was cemented further back,doesn't mean anything to me.

    Because its backed by company. It is something that's natural getting over. Meanwhile, if i want good superman. I need to satisfy myself through other means.

    If i can learn kendo,superman can as well. If superman is willing to submit and go through everything a samurai is and its code. then i have no problem. But, character need to be an outsider and he should be treated as such. Superman can't be japanese,without becoming japanese.

    That voldemort giving harry ability doesn't negate him being great by nature. Naruto is also great by nature. In fact naruto is ridiculed for his talk no jutsu with neji. Naruto's father was hokage.Thus kyubi was sealed in naruto. Similarly, the potters were great wizards. Thus voldemort sought to kill them, leading to their deaths and harry getting the powers. He always had the potential.

    Devouring mother being motherly would defeat the point.Alfred is never building block towards bruce's greatness nor does he reorient bruce in society,with the exception of Darkknight trilogy. I have never seen bruce being influenced by or spurred on by actions or teachings both negative or positive in nature. It is always the tragedy, his obsession and quest for vengeance. Bruce has a master morality.


    That's your interpretation, Not my fault. I had never specified them to be pairs. I meant sets as in set theory, maths. It's a grouping which satisfy a condition or set of conditions. here if a kid has parents that can be put in two sets of nature and nurture category then the kid qualified.


    Company owning something mean. What? I look at the books themselves . Not propaganda and push by the company. And Yes, i do have trouble admitting when i am wrong. I am stubborn and competitive. But, i do admit when i feel i am in the wrong. If i have hurt somebody doubly so.i had read dark victory, it has alfred basically admitting what i am saying. It has alfred trying to be a more parental figure to dick. Bruce has always had the loneliness in him.

    Slave and master morality is distinction made by nietzsche. Clark values traditional morality like compassion . Bruce values more morality with pride and power. He values more right and wrong.

    It isn't. how is blood relation not a relationship? Some might as outsiders, Its not that easy.You can't change your genes. Superman will forever be kal el of Krypton. He isn't just clark kent.


    I didn't say that. I said, farmboy thing wasn't cemented then (1945). only after later years and with donner movies was it cemented . Have i said later interpretation mean less valid? Only that later interpretations treat him like superhero, not a vigilante. He set up as messiah, an example... Etc. Self appointed doer of justice are those who take the law into their own hand. They aren't treated like superman is, nor do they act like superman. Superman is treated like a extention of justice system and police take selfies with him. Superman was last vigilante in the morrison's run. He acted and was treated like one in the run. Guess what? Parents dead.

    The same batsignal that gets broken by the same police most of the time. If it wasn't for gordon batman would be in jail. Even with him he isn't chummy like superman is. He is frenemies with police. Something i have already said. Spidey has the same relationship with daily bugle and the police. He isn't embraced like clark is.


    People say alot of things, see for yourself who fits better.if you haven't, Then Read the books of Neitzsche like beyond good and evil. While you are at it read jung's book, Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious. Read some of dostoevsky's works. You already know the zarathustra one. I would also recommend myth of sisyphus. Another thing that is more batman, than superman.

    Right, another mediocre series in the cw network. Again mcu, likes to say hi to you which forced wb. Wan and patty jenkins are the reason both movies did well. Not to mention the fact that these characters have been getting over despite dc . These guys have no idea what to do with superman.
    Not really,only donner movies. Even then donner couldn't last.

    tower of babel,dark knights metal... Etc. Batman beats up eveyone more times than the reverse.

    Knowing english And recognising English language symbols are two different things.

    Anyways, it's pretty obvious that we will keep this up. But i think that would bad for other people here. So,that was the last post on the topic for me. My main point was clark wasn't a farmer in those earlier years. That's a later thing,samurais and ninjas are different.
    Dude, I've brought forward evidence upon evidence that not only supports but proves my points on a lot of things, whether it was the fact that, yes, Superman has always been a farmboy or, yes Alfred is Bruce's father figure. Like, I have already provided the page scans that prove both of these facts. You saw them. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Yet, you are still trying to argue the exact opposite, even in the face of clear evidence that what you're saying isn't correct. If you don't want to accept that clear and convincing evidence, that's on you I guess. But that evidence exists. You can't pretend it doesn't. To do so is refuting, well, facts.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-24-2020 at 01:47 PM.

  9. #99
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I was underwhelmed. I did like other action scenes in his Batman movies, but I really don't care for a very grounded Batman take like Nolan's. One of the reasons I prefer Superman is because it's great escapism. I want to see extraordinary things I will never see in real life. I think Snyder sucks as an storyteller, but his visuals are strong.
    I understand. My taste has trended toward realism; not asking for realism, but I'd like to move away from the totally realistic and downright illogical (note: "logic" and "realism" aren't the same in this context). I think Nolan's ideas were fine. Fights aren't pretty so they aren't so dynamically choreographed to look like fight dancing, and they have a visceral, brutal feel to them. He just couldn't capture that well on film. I get why he wanted the claustrophobic feel, but you can't see what's going on, which kind of defeats the purpose of a movie action scene.

    I know slippery slopes are logical fallacies, but I wonder if putting some hard limitations on Batman's fighting prowess keeps stuff from devolving into Bat-god. I like to use the 7th-gen era Arkham games as a decent barometer on how Batman beats thugs: if you are 15 feet away from bad guys armed and ready with automatics, Batman's going to die. But if you earn your tactical advantage over guys with automatics, then they can't leverage their heavy armaments. The games are by no means realistic, but there are some strict dos and don'ts. In particularly difficult areas, you feel like a very mortal guy fighting thugs, but when you finally win you can congratulate yourself and say, "BECAUSE I'M BATMAN, $*%ES!"

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    There is another link with more info here. You need to scroll down.

    It has long been debated which superhero fans love the most. But now, a new survey has officially crowned the most beloved superhero amongst fans.

    According to PEOPLE, out of 2,000 participants, 47% of people voted Superman as their favorite hero.


    But, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man was right behind in second place was with 46% of votes. In third came Batman with 45% of votes.

    Captain America also made the list with 42% of votes, and Iron Man wasn’t too far behind with 41%.

    The survey also compared heroes and villains, with heroes being more of a favorite by 64% of fans.

    However, villains still hold a special place in their fans’ hearts.

    For the list of favorite villains, the Joker came in first place with 31 percent. Catwoman and Venom followed behind coming in second and third place.

    While fans enjoy watching their favorite hero or villain in theaters, they still enjoy reading and collecting comic books. In fact, some fans even take it a step further as 32% of fans collect action figures.

    PEOPLE revealed that the survey was created by OnePoll and commissioned by Visit Anaheim ahead of the new Avengers Campus opening at Disney California Adventure Park.


    source: https://balleralert.com/profiles/blo...medium=twitter

  11. #101
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Of course, I edited my previous post.



    Dude, I've brought forward evidence upon evidence that not only supports but proves my points on a lot of things, whether it was the fact that, yes, Superman has always been a farmboy or, yes Alfred is Bruce's father figure. Like, I have already provided the page scans that prove both of these facts. You saw them. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Yet, you are still trying to argue the exact opposite, even in the face of clear evidence that what you're saying isn't correct. If you don't want to accept that clear and convincing evidence, that's on you I guess. But that evidence exists. You can't pretend it doesn't. To do so is refuting, well, facts.
    What you did was show an image of superman flying over farmland. Great. Does that make him farmer in those stories? no.You said, alfred is bruces archetypical father or mother. Yet, you provided example of a book that say the exact opposite.Providing something as evidence doesn't mean they are accepted. Any evidence need to stand scrutiny to either be accepted or rejected. Just because you claim something to be evidence doesn't make it so.


    Finally, You twisting things and me being stubborn are two different things.Don't twist this on me.The black and white part is bruce and alfred. In case, you misunderstand. The kid grew up believing he was alone. That's necessary. Why? Because unlike modern day clark kent, who has slave morality that's handed down(space dads, farm parents take the choice right out of clark. He is a proxy with no individuality. Nietzsche wouldn't even call Clark's morality, true morality ) . Bruce's morality is forged on his own. He is also a fallen figure. If alfred takes the role of any of his parents or fulfil his duty as mother archetype or father archetype or bruce starts perceiving alfred in that role. Then he would seize to be that.Bruce is the quintessential ubermensch who tackles nihilism and has walked across the tight rope.
    From killing joke:
    "See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum… and one night, one night they decide they don’t like living in an asylum any more. They decide they’re going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof, and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moon light… stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend didn’t dare make the leap. Y’see… Y’see, he’s afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea… He says “Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I’ll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!” B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says… He says “Wh-what do you think I am? Crazy? You’d turn it off when I was half way across!"

    Superman on the other hand is zarathustra, jesus, moses, krishna.. Etc. These guys fail. They choose select few to carry the task set forward. They see the omen of the snake and eagle.They realise they aren't needed and walk into the darkness.

    Why? The one who rejects chaos or darkness can never be true ubermensch.The one who controls it is. This imagery is prevalent throughout the world.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-25-2020 at 01:55 AM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    What you did was show an image of superman flying over farmland. Great. Does that make him farmer in those stories? no.You said, alfred is bruces archetypical father or mother. Yet, you provided example of a book that say the exact opposite.Providing something as evidence doesn't mean they are accepted. Any evidence need to stand scrutiny to either be accepted or rejected. Just because you claim something to be evidence doesn't make it so.


    Finally, You twisting things and me being stubborn are two different things.Don't twist this on me.The black and white part is bruce and alfred. In case, you misunderstand. The kid grew up believing he was alone. That's necessary.
    You know what? I don't want to continue derailing the thread. I’ve already provided literal scans that prove you wrong on both counts and contradict what you just said in this post above. Yet, you're continuing to ignore that. You are also taking a lot of stuff out of context or downright misconstruing it to support your argument (e.g. Bruce saying he's alone right after his parents' death doesn't mean Alfred didn't step in to be a father figure, as evidenced in later stories including the page scan I provided).

    However, whether you want to accept the evidence is on you. You can lead a horse to water and whatnot...
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-25-2020 at 12:15 PM.

  13. #103
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I thought school was closed. What's with all these essays?
    "Cable was right!"

  14. #104
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I thought school was closed. What's with all these essays?
    Just having fun with nothing.

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    There is another link with more info here. You need to scroll down.

    It has long been debated which superhero fans love the most. But now, a new survey has officially crowned the most beloved superhero amongst fans.

    According to PEOPLE, out of 2,000 participants, 47% of people voted Superman as their favorite hero.


    But, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man was right behind in second place was with 46% of votes. In third came Batman with 45% of votes.

    Captain America also made the list with 42% of votes, and Iron Man wasn’t too far behind with 41%.

    The survey also compared heroes and villains, with heroes being more of a favorite by 64% of fans.

    However, villains still hold a special place in their fans’ hearts.

    For the list of favorite villains, the Joker came in first place with 31 percent. Catwoman and Venom followed behind coming in second and third place.

    While fans enjoy watching their favorite hero or villain in theaters, they still enjoy reading and collecting comic books. In fact, some fans even take it a step further as 32% of fans collect action figures.

    PEOPLE revealed that the survey was created by OnePoll and commissioned by Visit Anaheim ahead of the new Avengers Campus opening at Disney California Adventure Park.


    source: https://balleralert.com/profiles/blo...medium=twitter
    Something's missing here. If all the percentages can add up to well above 100%, that means fans are allowed to vote for more than one hero. The question is less likely to be "Who's your favorite hero?" (singular) as opposed to "Who are your favorite heroes?" (plural).

    But for us Supes fans, a win is a win, so let's be happy about that, especially if Superman wins a poll conducted in front of a lot of visible Avengers/Marvel marketing nearby. That'd be like if a CW ran a commercial during Smallville asking what your favorite teenaged-themed, superhero origin story was your favorite and the winner was Spectacular Spider-man.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 03-25-2020 at 10:21 AM.

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