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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    What i meant was i didn't read your reply regarding rogersmith.That's still only two examples. 80 years and two examples. Not good enough.
    Again, three. Also, that is probably not all of them.

    As said, he can immerse himself all he wants. Ninja are born into that setting. Have you watched fullmetal alchemist? Ninjas are like wrath homunculi. They are bread warriors, that kill themselves for mission. Bruce wayne is no ninja. Ninja's are tought to see emotions as weakness. Bruce is an emo. He is a pretend ninja. Deathstroke or his son damian might fit the bill.It's like this anyone can be a yoga practitioner. But, there those that started before the bones set that can do amazing things and have greater levels of flexibility.Superman doesn't need to be changed is what i am saying. Character can be largely stay the same and be accepted by any culture . Strongmen remains the same whereever. His archetype is universal. Krishna, moses, jesus, hercules, samson.. Etc in any culture there is equivalent for familiarity . Batman's isn't.
    Dude. Again, Batman is a master martial artist who has been stated to have immersed himself from the time he was a child and even studied ninjutsu. Calling him a ninja is barely an adaptation. Also, the anime itself doesn't really change the character at all. It just plops him in feudal Japan. Batman: Ninja was just a cool name. I mean, it seems like you've never even read Batman comics.

    Also, Superman has been changed. That's the point. Superman has been adapted countless times. Superman is stronger as a character because he's adaptable.

    Also, ever hear of Robin Hood? Or Sherlock Holmes? Yeah, the Batman archetype is universal too.

    The manga was good. I am sure i would have heard and read it by now. The fact that batman has little to no presences in any Asian stories itself is telling and proof enough of my statement . Wonderwoman works well with bushido. Superman is universal.
    Yet, of those three, Batman is the only one with manga and an anime.

    I have no problem if batman is or isn't. But, you haven't provided me anything otherwise.Maybe for the middle class or upper middle class folk around the world that are familiar with superheroes Batsymbol means something .But, Batsymbol has no significance in a rural village in india or africa. I have been to these places and know personally. The s means more, there is no comparison between that s and Batsymbol.The outside underwear wearing strongman is more recognisable than a guy pointy ears. Superman's only competition is the cross.Dude, having dead parents or tragedy isn't a batman copyup. There are characters like guts from berserk who is like batman. But, he isn't based on him. Those are two different things.You are putting forward your subjective pointof view as a fact. But, that's opinion not fact. Facts requires evidence.
    https://definitivedose.com/the-100-m...al-characters/
    https://echobuwarrior.wordpress.com/...-in-the-world/
    Superman's only competition is the mouse as character. The cross as symbol. This is'nt my opinion. I am being blunt
    Dude, according to the data, Batman is the 14th highest-grossing media franchise, while Superman is like 46th. That's not opinion. That's just dollars and cents. And that's not a knock on Superman. It's just stating the facts. Batman, like Superman, is known the world over, from the biggest cities to small rural villages. Batman is universal as well. That's just a fact. Again, sorry if you don't like that, but Batman has actually earned over twice the amount of money worldwide as Superman has. So obviously, he has reached audiences to the same extent that Superman has.

    Also, Guts is as much Batman as One Punch Man is Superman.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-14-2020 at 11:41 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Unless the rankings have changed recently, Bruce is (deservedly) on the list. A global icon yes, but not as well known as Clark.

    So I'm pretty sure you're both right; Bats is a global icon but isn't as well known as Superman.
    Again, they are equals in terms of the amount of awareness. I challenge anyone to give definitive proof that anywhere in the world wouldn't be automatically cognizant of either the Bat-symbol or Super-shield.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Again, three. Also, that is probably not all of them.
    And what i mention with superman is only tip of the ice berg. And three including one pushed by the company nowhere near good. Even after the push by the company for 80 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post

    Dude. Again, Batman is a master martial artist who has been stated to have immersed himself from the time he was a child and even studied ninjutsu. Calling him a ninja is barely an adaptation. Also, the anime itself doesn't really change the character at all. It just plops him in feudal Japan. Batman: Ninja was just a cool name. I mean, it seems like you've never even read Batman comics.

    His parent were murdered when he was what 7 or 10?that's past the time needed. Trust me, i know. No matter how good i am with my flexibility. I won't be able to compete with kids born into the business. I have, but it doesn't matter. A ninja has different set of ethics. Batman isn't one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Also, Superman has been changed. That's the point. Superman has been adapted countless times. Superman is stronger as a character because he's adaptable.
    He May have watered down or change in setting of growth from suburbs to farmlands. Other than that, he is pretty flexible. That i agree. Which is my point. Superman wouldn't need to become a samurai or sumo in Japan to sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Also, ever hear of Robin Hood? Or Sherlock Holmes? Yeah, the Batman archetype is universal too.
    More like zoro(not universal) . Bruce isn't robin hood archetype. Batman doesn't steal period and doesn't have bow or an arrow. Robin hood is unversal. That's good for green arrow, not batman. It sucks that green arrow isn't utilised much either.it's ironic i was reading one piece where oden a character based on Japanese robin hood died.

    Anyways, Sherlock holems though most famous character isn't a universal archetype . Most cultures don't have sherlock holmes equivalent like characters. besides, batman rarely shows any trait of sherlock Holmes. Even if he does. No where near as universal as superman. Did you know in hinduism itself there is countless characters based on the archetype, with 4 being on the low end. We don't even have to go to shinto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Yet, of those three, Batman is the only one with manga and an anime.
    Yet, batman is the only character that's managed even decently. Wonder woman never had anything. That's not something to be proud of when your competitors does a balanced job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Dude, according to the data, Batman is the 14th highest-grossing media franchise, while Superman is like 46th. That's not opinion. That's just dollars and cents. And that's not a knock on Superman. It's just stating the facts. Batman, like Superman, is known the world over, from the biggest cities to small rural villages. Batman is universal as well. That's just a fact. Again, sorry if you don't like that, but Batman has actually earned over twice the amount of money worldwide as Superman has. So obviously, he has reached audiences to the same extent that Superman has.
    You are stuck on sales when i have said sales are irrelevant from the get go. A guy in rural part of india or africa barely has enough for a days meal. They aren't going to go to a multplex to see superman, let alone batman. North Korean might not even have the freedom to do so. You keeps saying that without evidence such as surveys and sales. Sales is'nt a factor in what i am talking about. Batman isn't known in the villages i have been to. They had exposure to the underpants man with big s. Batman can earn any amount as he wants. Because he is managed better for the middle and upperclasses of the world. But, guess what? the world isn't limited to those guys. Those guys are still the minority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Also, Guts is as much Batman as One Punch Man is Superman.
    One puch man has inspiration from anpanman. There isn't a direct link between superman and one punch man. The reason i didn't mention him. Miura as far as i know isn't inspired by batman. He is inspired by nietzsche,which where batman derives his themes from. So both of them are disqualified for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Again, they are equals in terms of the amount of awareness. I challenge anyone to give definitive proof that anywhere in the world wouldn't be automatically cognizant of either the Bat-symbol or Super-shield.
    There can't be any Definitive proofs. The world is a big place. How on earth are you going to gather the data?asking for it is futile exercise.how do we know christian cross is more recognisable than swastika (i am not just talking about nazi symbol) ?the same standards apply.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-15-2020 at 01:50 AM.

  4. #49

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    Why are we discussing icon status when this poll was about popularity? Superman being known in a remote village has absolutely nothing to do with him being the most popular superhero among Disneyland visitors. And like Zeeguy said there is, to my knowledge anyway, no concrete evidence that Superman is more famous than Batman at all, it's all anecdotal evidence from what I've seen.

    In fact, I'm not so sure he's even the most famous superhero, the best I can find on evidence is this list: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...superheros-us/ it lists most well known superheroes among adults in the U.S. Superman and Spider-Man were tied for 1st with 87% recognizability among those surveyed. Batman oddly wasn't listed but Green Lantern and Deadpool were. *shrugs*

    So, if this list was just about fame or iconic stature the list in order would be: Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Robin, Wonder Woman, the Hulk and probably Wolverine. None of the characters who got big because of the MCU would even make the list.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    And what i mention with superman is only tip of the ice berg. And three including one pushed by the company nowhere near good. Even after the push by the company for 80 years.
    Oh my god, dude, stop moving the goalposts. Yes, Batman has inspired characters in other cultures around the world. He has a global reach. The end.

    His parent were murdered when he was what 7 or 10?that's past the time needed. Trust me, i know. No matter how good i am with my flexibility. I won't be able to compete with kids born into the business. I have, but it doesn't matter. A ninja has different set of ethics. Batman isn't one.
    Again, doesn't really matter. He's trained himself since childhood. He's a master of martial arts. He can call himself ninja and it's not a stretch. Also, that was just the name of the movie. The movie doesn't really change Bruce much at all. These things that you're hanging yourself up on don't really matter.

    He May have watered down or change in setting of growth from suburbs to farmlands. Other than that, he is pretty flexible. That i agree. Which is my point. Superman wouldn't need to become a samurai or sumo in Japan to sell.
    Dude. Superman has needed to be adapted countless times to remain relevant in the U.S. let alone abroad. I mean, we just had an animated movie based on a famous Superman story where he is a communist tool of the Soviet Union. Yeah, that seems like a pretty big departure from the "standard Superman." And I actually once saw an anime where Superman was adapted into being a baby in Tokyo.

    More like zoro. Bruce isn't robin hood archetype. Batman doesn't steal period and doesn't have bow or an arrow. Robin hood is unversal. That's good for green arrow, not batman. It sucks that green arrow isn't utilised much either.it's ironic i was reading one piece where oden a character based on Japanese robin hood died.

    Anyways, Sherlock holems isn't universal. Most cultures don't have sherlock holmes equivalent like characters. besides, rarely shows any trait of sherlock Holmes. Even if he does. No where near as universal as superman.
    Again, regardless of what you want to tell yourself, the archetype of a powerless hero who sticks to the shadows and fights against injustice and of the intrepid detective is universal. And yes, that includes Zorro, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, etc. Batman fits in those molds. In fact, Batman is probably one of the most famous characters of those archetypes.

    Yet, batman is the only character that's managed even decently. Wonder woman never had anything. That's not something to be proud of when your competitors does a balanced job.
    You're not making sense. I'm just saying that if you're criticizing Batman's presence in East Asian markets, then it's sad because he's apparently had more exposure there than any other DC character.

    You are stuck on sales when i have said sales are irrelevant from the get go. A guy in rural part of india or africa barely has enough for a days meal. They aren't going to go to a multplex to see superman, let alone batman. North Korean might not even have the freedom to do so. You keeps saying that without evidence such as surveys and sales. Sales is'nt a factor in what i am talking about. Batman isn't known in the villages i have been to. They had exposure to the underpants man with big s. Batman can earn any amount as he wants. Because he is managed better for the middle and upperclasses of the world. But, guess what? the world isn't limited to those guys. Those guys are still the minority.
    Sales are relevant. You can't discount them just because they don't support your argument.

    One puch man has inspiration from anpanman. There isn't a direct link between superman and one punch man. The reason i didn't mention him. Miura as far as i know isn't inspired by batman. He is inspired by nietzsche,which where batman derives his themes from. So both of them are disqualified for me.
    You directly brought up One Punch Man in a previous post:

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That's all from just American comics industry. Can you provide non American examples? I can provide tons goku, astroboy, allmight, one punch man, Anpanman, Shakthimaan, nagraj.. Etc these are just from asia. How many bat inspired characters do we have? Not much, if any. Even now a truly good superman would work better in the asian market like china, japan, india.. Etc than batman.
    Not mention superman inspired batman and is the reason superheros genre came to the the limelight. Superman put the super in superheroes.
    There can't be any Definitive proofs. The world is a big place. How on earth are you going to gather the data?asking for it is futile exercise.how do we know christian cross is more recognisable than swastika (i am not just talking about nazi symbol) ?the same standards apply.
    Okay, so why are you bringing up the talking point of Superman's shield being known in rural villages while Batman's isn't? You have no way of knowing that.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-15-2020 at 01:56 AM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I thought you were implying a family man would be rejected. If you weren't, my bad and my apologies.
    Nope, meant no implication, was merely pointing out that most people don't know about the family man aspect in comics so bringing it up in regards to that poll is pointless I guess.

  7. #52
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    Those people love Superman because they don't read comics... If they read comics, they would see how bad the Superman comics was and turned to Marvel. lol You need to have really really really low standards to read Superman unfortunatly.
    Last edited by Gurz; 03-15-2020 at 04:15 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Those people love Superman because they don't read comics... If they read comics, they would see how bad the Superman comics was and turned to Marvel. lol You need to have really really really low standards to read Superman unfortunatly.
    Assuming these people are likely exposed to Superman in TV and film, a medium that seems to have done more damage to the character, that hasn't stopped people from loving the character. Reading the comics, which aren't as wholly abhorred as many like to claim will likely not change people's feelings towards the big guy one way or another.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Oh my god, dude, stop moving the goalposts. Yes, Batman has inspired characters in other cultures around the world. He has a global reach. The end.



    Again, doesn't really matter. He's trained himself since childhood. He's a master of martial arts. He can call himself ninja and it's not a stretch. Also, that was just the name of the movie. The movie doesn't really change Bruce much at all. These things that you're hanging yourself up on don't really matter.



    Dude. Superman has needed to be adapted countless times to remain relevant in the U.S. let alone abroad. I mean, we just had an animated movie based on a famous Superman story where he is a communist tool of the Soviet Union. Yeah, that seems like a pretty big departure from the "standard Superman." And I actually once saw an anime where Superman was adapted into being a baby in Tokyo.



    Again, regardless of what you want to tell yourself, the archetype of a powerless hero who sticks to the shadows and fights against injustice and of the intrepid detective is universal. And yes, that includes Zorro, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, etc. Batman fits in those molds. In fact, Batman is probably one of the most famous characters of those archetypes.



    You're not making sense. I'm just saying that if you're criticizing Batman's presence in East Asian markets, then it's sad because he's apparently had more exposure there than any other DC character.



    Sales are relevant. You can't discount them just because they don't support your argument.



    You directly brought up One Punch Man in a previous post:





    Okay, so why are you bringing up the talking point of Superman's shield being known in rural villages while Batman's isn't? You have no way of knowing that.
    Nope! You provided a measly two examples that's nothing considering 80 years of exposure.I was able to provide many of the top of my head without a thought. Like that doesn't scream impact.

    I can call myself wing chun master doesn't make me one. Batman started wayyyy past after any ninja needs to. That's just how it is. This martial master thing itself is pretty vague thing to say. There are 100s forms in asia itself and there many in europe, middle east.. Etc. Damian on the other hand was born into it leagues training (if league is being depicted as ninja-esque) .There will be a huuuge difference between the two.

    Who said he didn't needed to be adapted? I didn't. But, it takes more than that. What i am saying the character can be sold as itself in any culture and still could work. Batman doesn't work like that. Why does superman work like that? Because of his universal nature in regards to his base archetype and what he is as a strongman.That's basically it.The worst you will need is to change names of places and people. Even that isn't necessarily required.

    I don't need to tell myself anything. Zorro, robin hood, sherlock Holmes doesn't have same archetype let alone grouping them together.batman having robin hood archetype is stretch to say the least. The other two have no cultural equivalence across the world. Sticking to shadows and fighting injustice can be attributed to any archetype. Archetypical figures are great mother, father, child, devil, god, wise old man, wise old woman, the trickster, the hero. There are inverses that also exist like the devouring mother, father,villain.. Etc. Superman is based on the most common hero. His pattern comes up again and again. Harry potter is based on the same archetype as superman.sherlock holmes nor zorro has cultural equivalence. You can't find an indian zorro or Holmes, Only rip-offs. Those aren't the same. An archetype is a pattern due to human thought process. Robin hood on the otherhand exists almost everywhere. There is a Japanese one, indian one,arabic..etc.

    Batman is pushed by the company in east asian markets. While the likes of superman, wonderwoman aren't . These characters got popular without the support of company itself and is more known. Batman got manga and anime because dc main solution for selling stuff is batman. While, marvel builds the brand marvel. I am criticizing this approach.

    It's not because it doesn't support my argument. It's because there are people who live in extreme poverty that know superman and have no clue what a batman is. How is sales going to take into account that? Last time i checked number of poor people > number of others.

    Oh! Right it must have been my mistake.

    Because i have lived in such villages, in remote area multiple ones. I have met more people who don't know what a superhero is know who superman is. Most response known response is "the guy that wears underpants outside" . I haven't had anyone come up to me and say "i know batman. But i don't know superman".reverse is always the case. I can infer from that superman symbol is more known.DC isn't even doing it intentionally, like with batman. It's the same way cross is more recognisable than swastika. And cross is more recognisable than superman s. Batsymbol had no relevance to people more times than not.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-15-2020 at 05:28 AM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Again, they are equals in terms of the amount of awareness. I challenge anyone to give definitive proof that anywhere in the world wouldn't be automatically cognizant of either the Bat-symbol or Super-shield.
    I don't know why you're being so adamant about this. Nobody is saying Batman isn't a well known global entity.

    Anyway, like I said (I think) earlier in the thread, I had to find a list about this for a marketing class a few years back. Didn't save the link, and I'm not slogging through the university library hoping to find the info again (and non-students couldn't access it anyway). I did do a quick Google search, and it turned up a lot of nothing; top ten lists for movie characters, or for a certain year, or opinion pieces, etc. Lot of crap.

    Best I found, and this closely resembles the list I found at school (which was based on actual, objective data) is here: https://definitivedose.com/the-100-m...al-characters/

    The rankings are slightly different from what I found at school, but pretty close.
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-15-2020 at 08:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Those people love Superman because they don't read comics... If they read comics, they would see how bad the Superman comics was and turned to Marvel. lol You need to have really really really low standards to read Superman unfortunatly.
    I hate to agree!! But I do!! I stopped reading superman comics years ago!! I didn't like how they were trying to make him into something he isn't!! Making him another Batman, dark!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Nope! You provided a measly two examples that's nothing considering 80 years of exposure.I was able to provide many of the top of my head without a thought. Like that doesn't scream impact.
    Thos were just off the top of my head. You can search the web for more examples if you'd like. I'm sure there are plenty.

    I can call myself wing chun master doesn't make me one. Batman started wayyyy past after any ninja needs to. That's just how it is. This martial master thing itself is pretty vague thing to say. There are 100s forms in asia itself and there many in europe, middle east.. Etc. Damian on the other hand was born into it leagues training (if league is being depicted as ninja-esque) .There will be a huuuge difference between the two.
    Well, Bruce's training started when he was young. And it's been stated that Bruce has mastered 137 different forms of martial arts. So yes, he's a master. Again, your insistence that he doesn't meet the technical requirements of a ninja is just semantics. He doesn't have to meet all the requirements of a ninja. It was just the title of an anime movie. And for the 10th time, they didn't actually make him a ninja in the movie. He was still the same old Batman. The entire concept of the movie is just Batman's time traveling to feudal Japan.

    Who said he didn't needed to be adapted? I didn't. But, it takes more than that. What i am saying the character can be sold as itself in any culture and still could work. Batman doesn't work like that. Why does superman work like that? Because of his universal nature in regards to his base archetype and what he is as a strongman.That's basically it.The worst you will need is to change names of places and people. Even that isn't necessarily required.
    You did. Multiple times...
    Superman doesn't need to be changed is what i am saying. Character can be largely stay the same and be accepted by any culture
    Again, please stop saying one thing and then trying to pretend you never said it.

    And what I'm telling you is that Batman is the same. There have been presentations and adaptations of Batman in Japan, in India, in Italy, in China, and beyond. Heck, the cover of a Batman comic was used to galvanize people in the Hong Kong protests.

    I don't need to tell myself anything. Zorro, robin hood, sherlock Holmes doesn't have same archetype let alone grouping them together.batman having robin hood archetype is stretch to say the least. The other two have no cultural equivalence across the world. Sticking to shadows and fighting injustice can be attributed to any archetype. Archetypical figures are great mother, father, child, devil, god, wise old man, wise old woman, the trickster, the hero. There are inverses that also exist like the devouring mother, father,villain.. Etc. Superman is based on the most common hero. His pattern comes up again and again. Harry potter is based on the same archetype as superman.sherlock holmes nor zorro has cultural equivalence. You can't find an indian zorro or Holmes, Only rip-offs. Those aren't the same. An archetype is a pattern due to human thought process. Robin hood on the otherhand exists almost everywhere. There is a Japanese one, indian one,arabic..etc.
    Yes, you obviously do since you're basically engaging in mental gymnastics here to try and get out of admitting that Batman is, in fact, a global icon on the same level. I honestly don't get why you don't want to admit that, especially since it's not a knock against Superman in any regard, but here we are.

    Also, if you're going to lump Harry Potter and Superman into the same "hero" archetype but exclude Batman, despite decades of Bruce proving himself a hero, then I can't help you.

    Batman is pushed by the company in east asian markets. While the likes of superman, wonderwoman aren't . These characters got popular without the support of company itself and is more known. Batman got manga and anime because dc main solution for selling stuff is batman. While, marvel builds the brand marvel. I am criticizing this approach.
    Oh, I criticize the "Batmaning" of everything approach too. Doesn't mean that Batman doesn't have a wide international presence nor that he even needs to be pushed to the extent he is to be iconic. He's Batman. He's iconic.

    It's not because it doesn't support my argument. It's because there are people who live in extreme poverty that know superman and have no clue what a batman is. How is sales going to take into account that? Last time i checked number of poor people > number of others.
    Obviously it is because it doesn't support your argument. You have a hard number that shows the extent of Batman's popularity and you're discounting it for no other reason really. And you don't have any evidence to really back up the reasons you're saying you're rejecting it.

    Because i have lived in such villages, in remote area multiple ones. I have met more people who don't know what a superhero is know who superman is. Most response known response is "the guy that wears underpants outside" . I haven't had anyone come up to me and say "i know batman. But i don't know superman".reverse is always the case. I can infer from that superman symbol is more known.DC isn't even doing it intentionally, like with batman. It's the same way cross is more recognisable than swastika. And cross is more recognisable than superman s. Batsymbol had no relevance to people more times than not.
    Did you just compare the Bat-symbol to the swastika? Wow. Okay. You really need to reckon with your apparent bias against the character.

    Also, forgive me if I don't exactly take your word on the matter.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-15-2020 at 10:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't know why you're being so adamant about this. Nobody is saying Batman isn't a well known global entity.

    Anyway, like I said (I think) earlier in the thread, I had to find a list about this for a marketing class a few years back. Didn't save the link, and I'm not slogging through the university library hoping to find the info again (and non-students couldn't access it anyway). I did do a quick Google search, and it turned up a lot of nothing; top ten lists for movie characters, or for a certain year, or opinion pieces, etc. Lot of crap.

    Best I found, and this closely resembles the list I found at school (which was based on actual, objective data) is here: https://definitivedose.com/the-100-m...al-characters/

    The rankings are slightly different from what I found at school, but pretty close.

    Uh, because it's not true. LOL. Again, if we want to talk about actual data, Batman has earned over at least as much Superman globally. And that's not a knock on Superman, but if we're going to compare the popularity and iconic status of the two characters, their sales probably factor into it.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-15-2020 at 10:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Uh, because it's not true. LOL. Again, if we want to talk about actual data, Batman has earned over at least as much Superman globally. And that's not a knock on Superman, but if we're going to compare the popularity and iconic status of the two characters, their sales probably factor into it.
    Batman does sell more merchandise. At the time I had to do that marketing research he was the second most profitable comic book character. Spider-Man was #1 with over a billion in revenue annually, Bats #2 with just under a billion, the Avengers (as a collective group, not individually) at #3 with something like 600 million, and Clark at #4 with about half a million. I forget the data's year but I don't believe any of those characters had a movie come out, which would've skewed the data.

    Of course, Batman also has more merchandise to sell as well, which brings up supply-demand dynamics, but we're not talking about sales figures we're talking about global recognition, and those are two different things. Batman sells more than Mickey Mouse too, but the Mouse is still a more widely recognized character/brand. You say sales "probably" figure into recognition, so it seems you don't actually *know* how they relate to each other. Well, there is overlap between them, but what you suggest is a false equivalency. The video game Overwatch makes a lot more money than Sherlock Holmes does, but which IP do you think is more widely recognized around the world?

    Remember, that's the discussion; not sales, but global recognition. Not the same thing.

    Anyway, if you think it's not true then prove it. Out-business me. I'm using data I pulled from actual objective research. Granted, you guys couldn't access the school library link even if I still had it (unless we go to the same college anyway), but unless you're going to call me a liar I've already proven my point and posted a link that is the next best thing to the research paper I originally cited. Do you have any actual, objective data to challenge me or just your opinion? If all you have is your opinion and a false equivalency about sales figures, then that's nowhere good enough. Provide some links to actual research. If you can provide a legit source that shows Batman has surpassed Superman in global recognition, then cool, Batman has surpassed Superman in global recognition. But do what you're asking others to do and put your money where your mouth is with some objective facts.

    And I still don't get why this is so important to you. Batman is among the top 10 most well known fictional characters on earth. Probably top 5 (I'm quite certain he's top 5 but without digging up that research again I can't say for 100% certain). Who gives a sh*t if he's a few spots below or above Superman? He sells more toys, is that not enough for you?
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-15-2020 at 11:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Batman does sell more merchandise. At the time I had to do that marketing research he was the second most profitable comic book character. Spider-Man was #1 with over a billion in revenue annually, Bats #2 with just under a billion, the Avengers (as a collective group, not individually) at #3 with something like 600 million, and Clark at #4 with about half a million. I forget the data's year but I don't believe any of those characters had a movie come out, which would've skewed the data.

    Of course, Batman also has more merchandise to sell as well, which brings up supply-demand dynamics, but we're not talking about sales figures we're talking about global recognition, and those are two different things. Batman sells more than Mickey Mouse too, but the Mouse is still a more widely recognized character/brand. You say sales "probably" figure into recognition, so it seems you don't actually *know* how they relate to each other. Well, there is overlap between them, but what you suggest is a false equivalency. The video game Overwatch makes a lot more money than Sherlock Holmes does, but which IP do you think is more widely recognized around the world?

    Remember, that's the discussion; not sales, but global recognition. Not the same thing.
    Okay. Sales definitely factor into global recognition. Also, you used a list you found on the internet that doesn't seem to provide the method by which it arrived at its conclusion. I mean, you literally just have to look on Wikipedia to see the highest-grossing media franchises. That includes everything, from comics to toys to film. And again, this isn't a knock on Superman. Superman is also on the list. However, to say that either has higher global recognition than the other is disingenuous, especially when one earns so much more money.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 03-15-2020 at 11:36 AM.

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