How will the coronavirus affect comics?

[The Overlord]

I think the big difference is that the consumers switched to digital on the video game market awhile ago.

A lot of folks just aren't willing to switch so easily in comics or in printed media in general. For music and games it doesn't really make a difference how you get the media, your listening to it or playing it on th same device.

For any kind of book or magazine, however there is a big difference between screen, or having a physical dead tree format.

I think Kindle is becoming more popular for people who want to read books online. Magazines are declining in sales too, same with newspapers.

And frankly, I think DC and Marvel had problems before this pandemic:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalk.../#31febea74d68

Really, Manga and original YA graphic novels have far less confusing continuity than superheroes comics, they have a defined middle and an end, I think the spawling universes of Marvel and DC have become a barrier to new kids picking up Marvel and DC. I think Marvel and DC spend too much time catering to their aging customer base over trying to get kids to pick up comics and kids enjoy these characters more in other media than they do in the comics.

Even without the pandemic, how long could Marvel and DC have sustained themselves on the same old readers?

[Ptrvc]

I think Kindle is becoming more popular for people who want to read books online. Magazines are declining in sales too, same with newspapers.

And frankly, I think DC and Marvel had problems before this pandemic:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalk.../#31febea74d68

Really, Manga and original YA graphic novels have far less confusing continuity than superheroes comics, they have a defined middle and an end, I think the spawling universes of Marvel and DC have become a barrier to new kids picking up Marvel and DC. I think Marvel and DC spend too much time catering to their aging customer base over trying to get kids to pick up comics and kids enjoy these characters more in other media than they do in the comics.

Even without the pandemic, how long could Marvel and DC have sustained themselves on the same old readers?

I disagree.

Part of the selling point of Marvel and DC is the deep lore and sprawling universes. That's their niche, adventures, battles, and heroism from the detective crime story to universal in scale.

There are effectively limitless stories with a defined middle and end, with no lore or continuity to get into. Sure the market might be bigger but competition is constant.

Conversely, I don't think there are any real competitors when it comes to Marvel and DC for sheer sprawl. The closest was probably Star Wars, but Disney torpedoed that, so now you're looking at Warhammer or maybe some tabletop RPGs settings.

When I was getting into comics around the early 2000s the lore was an attracting factor. It wasn't hard to catch up on either, even though I wasn't even a teenager yet, thanks to the internet.

If anything, I think it's the constant "fresh starts," hard and soft reboots and "legacy roulette," that's made getting into comics more difficult.

Some kid picks up Spider-Man for the first time and they know who Peter Parker is. Instead they get Doc Ock or something.

[GOLGO 13]

I disagree.

...
Conversely, I don't think there are any real competitors when it comes to Marvel and DC for sheer sprawl. The closest was probably Star Wars, but Disney torpedoed that, so now you're looking at Warhammer or maybe some tabletop RPGs settings.
...

God, I love Warhammer 40k. Everything from the books, the lore & the models for all the games are just...so fantastic. All the marvelous content just from YouTube fans alone proves the tremendous love people all over the world have for this IP. It's really something special.

[The Overlord]

I disagree.

Part of the selling point of Marvel and DC is the deep lore and sprawling universes. That's their niche, adventures, battles, and heroism from the detective crime story to universal in scale.

There are effectively limitless stories with a defined middle and end, with no lore or continuity to get into. Sure the market might be bigger but competition is constant.

Conversely, I don't think there are any real competitors when it comes to Marvel and DC for sheer sprawl. The closest was probably Star Wars, but Disney torpedoed that, so now you're looking at Warhammer or maybe some tabletop RPGs settings.

When I was getting into comics around the early 2000s the lore was an attracting factor. It wasn't hard to catch up on either, even though I wasn't even a teenager yet, thanks to the internet.

If anything, I think it's the constant "fresh starts," hard and soft reboots and "legacy roulette," that's made getting into comics more difficult.

Some kid picks up Spider-Man for the first time and they know who Peter Parker is. Instead they get Doc Ock or something.

Except that does not bare out in actual sales figures, with DC and Marvel are lagging behind Manga and original YA graphic novels.

Let ask me ask you this if you had a kid who liked superheroes due to exposure to them from other media and wanted to start reading Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, Batman or any other major character, where would you tell them to start?

DC and Marvel may be better off making self-contained YA novels, Superman Smashes the Klan is a great Superman story and is completely self-contained. Kids can pick it up easily.

To me, the sprawling DC and Marvel universes need a better justification to exist as their main storytelling engine than the fact they have been around forever.

[Ptrvc]

Except that does not bare out in actual sales figures, with DC and Marvel are lagging behind Manga and original YA graphic novels.

Let ask me ask you this if you had a kid who liked superheroes due to exposure to them from other media and wanted to start reading Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, Batman or any other major character, where would you tell them to start?

DC and Marvel may be better off making self-contained YA novels, Superman Smashes the Klan is a great Superman story and is completely self-contained. Kids can pick it up easily.

To me, the sprawling DC and Marvel universes need a better justification to exist as their main storytelling engine than the fact they have been around forever.

First off I wouldn't get any book for a kid that features the Klan heavily. No kid cares about the Klan and nobody is invested in the conflict between Superman and a bunch of idiots in white pajamas.

If a kid I knew was interested in Spiderman I'd start them out with a big TPB of the Lee Ditko run. With the FF the same thing, start at the beginning.

Pretty much what I'd do for every character/team barring a few characters like Hulk or the X-Men, who I might start later in the run or when their titles came back.

[skyvolt2000]

Except that does not bare out in actual sales figures, with DC and Marvel are lagging behind Manga and original YA graphic novels.

Let ask me ask you this if you had a kid who liked superheroes due to exposure to them from other media and wanted to start reading Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, Batman or any other major character, where would you tell them to start?

To me, the sprawling DC and Marvel universes need a better justification to exist as their main storytelling engine than the fact they have been around forever.

Excluding when movies come out-I look at what is top selling on Amazon for kids-those guys tend to NOT be there. Now when movies come out I don't see kids going back to day one-they are getting random books or what is inspired from the movie.

The main Hulk book I kept seeing sold to kids was either Planet Hulk or Cho Hulk's series. The kids don't care where you start them.

Just like the way we ALL had to go into comics. Because not everybody has that option to go back to day one. What about the kid who does not care about reading about major heroes? They don't matter?

Manga & YA books offer way more variety. If I want a book with a black male teen lead-I got 10-50+ choices in YA. Marvel & Dc? Hi Miles Morales. Where are the rest? 50 Batman books don't make up for that.

Flooding the market with who is popular does not solve the issue. You are not getting the folks who don't care for him-manga & YA are.

[The Overlord]

First off I wouldn't get any book for a kid that features the Klan heavily. No kid cares about the Klan and nobody is invested in the conflict between Superman and a bunch of idiots in white pajamas.

If a kid I knew was interested in Spiderman I'd start them out with a big TPB of the Lee Ditko run. With the FF the same thing, start at the beginning.

Pretty much what I'd do for every character/team barring a few characters like Hulk or the X-Men, who I might start later in the run or when their titles came back.

Have you read that Superman comic? Maybe you shouldn't criticize a comic you never read.

I also think storytelling in the 60s and before all resonates with modern kids, IMO, the 60s were a pretty long time ago and guess what, American superhero comics do have to compete with stuff like YA graphic novels that are trying to speak to kids now and they are selling better than DC or Marvel. I do think there is some benefit to introducing kids to classics, but thinking you just start kids on Spider-Man 1 from the 60s and go till the modern comics now may not a great way to get kids invested, rather than giving them something modern and self-contained.

Reading One Piece from the beginning till now would be shorter and less confusing than reading Spider-Man from the beginning till now and that includes the fact the One Piece has hundreds of volumes and a lot of filler at this point.

Excluding when movies come out-I look at what is top selling on Amazon for kids-those guys tend to NOT be there. Now when movies come out I don't see kids going back to day one-they are getting random books or what is inspired from the movie.

The main Hulk book I kept seeing sold to kids was either Planet Hulk or Cho Hulk's series. The kids don't care where you start them.

Just like the way we ALL had to go into comics. Because not everybody has that option to go back to day one. What about the kid who does not care about reading about major heroes? They don't matter?

Manga & YA books offer way more variety. If I want a book with a black male teen lead-I got 10-50+ choices in YA. Marvel & Dc? Hi Miles Morales. Where are the rest? 50 Batman books don't make up for that.

Flooding the market with who is popular does not solve the issue. You are not getting the folks who don't care for him-manga & YA are.

Well then DC and Marvel should offer more variety and make it self contained in the form of YA graghic novels.

[Holt]

I think Kindle is becoming more popular for people who want to read books online. Magazines are declining in sales too, same with newspapers.

And frankly, I think DC and Marvel had problems before this pandemic:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalk.../#31febea74d68

Really, Manga and original YA graphic novels have far less confusing continuity than superheroes comics, they have a defined middle and an end, I think the spawling universes of Marvel and DC have become a barrier to new kids picking up Marvel and DC. I think Marvel and DC spend too much time catering to their aging customer base over trying to get kids to pick up comics and kids enjoy these characters more in other media than they do in the comics.

Even without the pandemic, how long could Marvel and DC have sustained themselves on the same old readers?

All the pandemic has done is show the cracks that had already been forming for a long time.

And yes, Superman Smashes the Klan is great.

[Reviresco]

Except that does not bare out in actual sales figures, with DC and Marvel are lagging behind Manga and original YA graphic novels.

Comparing American superhero comics to Manga or YA OGN is like comparing apples and oranges. Manga in America is a reprint market, even if they are new here. Kids or YA OGN don't consist of 1000s of volumes, aren't always in color, are lower in price, and have multiple retail outlets.

[Ptrvc]

Comparing American superhero comics to Manga or YA OGN is like comparing apples and oranges. Manga in America is a reprint market, even if they are new here. Kids or YA OGN don't consist of 1000s of volumes, aren't always in color, are lower in price, and have multiple retail outlets.

Manga also doesn't exclusively cater to kids. They even list out genres by demographics first. Having a clear concept of who a book is.for before its published.

[The Overlord]

Comparing American superhero comics to Manga or YA OGN is like comparing apples and oranges. Manga in America is a reprint market, even if they are new here. Kids or YA OGN don't consist of 1000s of volumes, aren't always in color, are lower in price, and have multiple retail outlets.

Yes and that is why the YA graphic novels outsell Marvel and DC, they cost less, they do not have a 1000 volumes and thus are self-contained and are easily accessible and if they are not in color, who cares, one is clearly selling better than the other.

Kids like superheroes as concepts, but the American superhero comic format is tired and outdated, it holds little appeal to those who are not already fans. It seems like some people want to constantly prop up a business model that no longer makes sense simply due to nostalgia, rather seeing what kids would like. The same old aging fan base cannot sustain this industry forever. I think Holt is right, this crisis showed the cracks in the system that already existed and is hastening trends that were already in the works.

[Reviresco]

Yes and that is why the YA graphic novels outsell Marvel and DC, they cost less, they do not have a 1000 volumes and thus are self-contained and are easily accessible and if they are not in color, who cares, one is clearly selling better than the other.

So, basically, Marvel should start wrapping chocolate bars with a few panels of Avengers, because chocolate bars outsell their comics, kid / YA graphic novels, and manga combined?

Maybe they should just get rid of the interior art, and start printing romance novels, beneath covers of muscled men, since romance novels sell at least twice as many copies of ALL graphic novels combined.

What works for manga and kid/YA OGN isn't going to work for Marvel and DC. Anyone that wants black and white, less historied, simply written, self contained stories of a few volumes can go read kid/YA OGNs, but they aren't going to get what they get from Marvel comics.

Kids like superheroes as concepts, but the American superhero comic format is tired and outdated, it holds little appeal to those who are not already fans. It seems like some people want to constantly prop up a business model that no longer makes sense simply due to nostalgia, rather seeing what kids would like. The same old aging fan base cannot sustain this industry forever. I think Holt is right, this crisis showed the cracks in the system that already existed and is hastening trends that were already in the works.

Comic books haven't been for kids since ... well, probably since the direct market took over.

I doubt anyone who follows this industry was unaware of the problems, though there's some argument about how close the long prophesied end of comics (like folks have been saying this since the 40s).

People, and more importantly, the comics industry, wants to prop up a business model that brings in 90% of their income. I'm sure if there was another way to make that amount of money, immediately, the publishers would be migrating there ASAP.

All that said, I do believe this crisis is going to force the publishers to change some of their ways, if nothing else, their relationship with Diamond.

[Digifiend]

Assuming Diamond even survives. They seem to be having cashflow problems.

[The Overlord]

So, basically, Marvel should start wrapping chocolate bars with a few panels of Avengers, because chocolate bars outsell their comics, kid / YA graphic novels, and manga combined?

Maybe they should just get rid of the interior art, and start printing romance novels, beneath covers of muscled men, since romance novels sell at least twice as many copies of ALL graphic novels combined.

What works for manga and kid/YA OGN isn't going to work for Marvel and DC. Anyone that wants black and white, less historied, simply written, self contained stories of a few volumes can go read kid/YA OGNs, but they aren't going to get what they get from Marvel comics.

I think you comparing comics to other things like chocolate bars is just a facteus way to avoid talking about other graghic novels outselling Marvel and DC.

So what, should Marvel and DC just let Manga and YA graghic novels eat up their market share and do nothing about it? They shouldn't try to learn why their competitors are doing better than they are?

I think Marvel and DC have an advantage in terms of recongonizable characters, but clearly the format and business model of DC and Marvel comics is failing to brining kids as new readers and that will finish them in the long run, if they do not address it.

Comic books haven't been for kids since ... well, probably since the direct market took over.

I doubt anyone who follows this industry was unaware of the problems, though there's some argument about how close the long prophesied end of comics (like folks have been saying this since the 40s).

People, and more importantly, the comics industry, wants to prop up a business model that brings in 90% of their income. I'm sure if there was another way to make that amount of money, immediately, the publishers would be migrating there ASAP.

All that said, I do believe this crisis is going to force the publishers to change some of their ways, if nothing else, their relationship with Diamond.

And how is the American comic book industry supposed to survive long term without getting new fans and relying on the same aging fan base? Are we going to keep things the same way to support a business model that seems not attract new costomers, how is that a good business model?

This crisis is putting preassure on a building that has weak foundations.

[Devaishwarya]

Comparing American superhero comics to Manga or YA OGN is like comparing apples and oranges. Manga in America is a reprint market, even if they are new here. Kids or YA OGN don't consist of 1000s of volumes, aren't always in color, are lower in price, and have multiple retail outlets.

Exactatiously!
And what has worked for one will not work for the other...at least not without definitively and significantly changing the industry into something completely different.