View Poll Results: Who has the potential to achieve A-list status?

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  • Aztek

    6 6.59%
  • Black Condor

    1 1.10%
  • Black Orchid

    3 3.30%
  • Blue Beetle

    58 63.74%
  • El Diablo

    4 4.40%
  • El Dorado

    4 4.40%
  • Engineer

    4 4.40%
  • Fire

    11 12.09%
  • Firebrand

    0 0%
  • Jessica Cruz

    34 37.36%
  • Kyle Rayner

    22 24.18%
  • Renee Montoya

    17 18.68%
  • Sideways

    9 9.89%
  • Vibe

    16 17.58%
  • Other

    7 7.69%
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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Kamala's direct market sales seemed to take a major hit after the relaunch and going into Civil War II.
    That sounds right. The real question for her though, is what her digital and trade sales did, since that's apparently where she shined.

    The current run has been doing demonstrably better by direct market standards then past volumes.
    Good. I wonder how much of that is due to her larger media stuff (likely none, if she follows the usual trend) and how much is just higher quality. Volume 3 especially was a huge let-down despite having the strongest premise Carol has had.

    Volume 3 was the one that introduced Alpha Flight station right?

    I don't know if I'd say "minor," given he was front-and-center during Johns' JSA and that was a marquee book for DC at the time (with the legacy aspect of the character also being a major factor), but he was treated like an afterthought during the New 52.
    Eh, maybe "minor" isn't the right word, but he wasnt headlining a solo or having major roles in events or anything. He had a strong role in JSA, but even with that book being a tentpole title during the Johns' era Holt himself was just one character of many. I think he's got a higher profile today than he did ten years ago. Still not a major profile, but he seems to be becoming more important and a bigger draw than he was. Which is great, Holt is one of DC's best characters from the last twenty-ish years.
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  2. #77
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Good. I wonder how much of that is due to her larger media stuff (likely none, if she follows the usual trend) and how much is just higher quality. Volume 3 especially was a huge let-down despite having the strongest premise Carol has had.

    Volume 3 was the one that introduced Alpha Flight station right?
    Yeah, with the Agent Carter writers (who were only on for one arc).

    I think Kelly Thompson being a more proven comics writer helped to some degree, and it's probably the most successful of all her Superhero comics.

  3. #78
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    if DC were to hire you to pull a Hickman/Johns and both revamp and spotlight the landscape of their Latino superheroes, how would you go about it?
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    DC: Batman & The Outsiders, Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, The Flash, Justice League Odyssey, Far Sector, Red Hood/Outlaws

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  4. #79
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    It's not just about a character getting a push, as has been mentioned already-- It's also about creating a space for that character so that (s)he doesn't undermine the role of an existing A-lister. Besides the legal issues, Icon can't reach that status because Superman already fits the power paragon role. ("Icon" is also a generic moniker) Even if he's not the most important character in universe, Batman is the company's biggest character sales-wise. They're not going to undermine his status on the League as the smart guy by having Mr. Terrific in as prominent a role. When they introduced Cyborg as a founder, that undermined Batman's tech-guy status, so Johns tried to write him in a leadership role like Captain America for the Avengers or Nightwing for the Titans, but that couldn't work since Batman's personality isn't suited for that role and since the Justice League is supposed to generally have an average power level above those other teams. Besides the awful outdated name and the legality issue, Black Lightning doesn't have an established mythos or recognizable logo, and his visual gimmick (lightning) is a lot like Flash's trademark lightning. (During the New 52, Azzarello and Chang tried giving Diana lightning powers/sybolism since she was written as Zeus's daughter, but that was axed probably because Flash is already so associated with lightning). (Shazam isn't a viable founder because of both the lightning motif and being so similar to Superman.) Static might've worked a little better since he brought the magnetism aspect in, but again the same problem with lightning imagery and legal issues. Vixen could work, but doesn't have a mythology outside of a tenuous connection to the Red and seems to be more accepted by fans as a b-lister as a result. Given the time period, DC should've started promoting John Stewart as Green Lantern since 2001, so by 2011 he'd have been the natural choice. He was already accepted by the mainstream as an A-lister on the same level with Superman and Batman.



    Jaime works as the Justice League's Spider-man, with connection to Egyptian mysticism and a connection to space that is distinct from the GLC in terms of motivation.



    Doc(tor) Fate presents a lot of potential as another black or Arab character with a unique role and mythology. I lean toward preferring that he be Arab, given some of his more recent appearance and portrayal on JLU.

    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 03-30-2020 at 07:39 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Doc(tor) Fate presents a lot of potential as another black or Arab character with a unique role and mythology. I lean toward preferring that he be Arab, given some of his more recent appearance and portrayal on JLU.
    But in Fates case I think the classic Version is still way more prominent then the new one.
    With Fate you have also the Problem that he is simply to powerfull and that Nabu has been mostly written as villain in the last years.

  6. #81

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    Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle. He has the relatability of Peter Parker Spider Man but also the cool transformation hook with an awesome suit and powers.

    I could also see Black Condor and Aztek having their own TV shows, but I wouldn't want them connected to the current iteration of CW shows.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But in Fates case I think the classic Version is still way more prominent then the new one.
    I don't think most people know who Doctor Fate or Kent Nelson are. Even among those who know him, many don't know much about him outside of his guest appearances. I think there's also a desire to have Fate be someone who is culturally Egyptian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    With Fate you have also the Problem that he is simply to powerfull and that Nabu has been mostly written as villain in the last years.
    That's a problem with all spellcasters/reality warpers. The solution is coming up with a weakness or disadvantage so as to prevent the character from being OP.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 03-31-2020 at 07:58 AM.

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    if DC were to hire you to pull a Hickman/Johns and both revamp and spotlight the landscape of their Latino superheroes, how would you go about it?
    I'd get them visible and (hopefully) tell quality stories using all the tools in the tool chest. Not just solos and team-ups but also other imprints and mediums. Most of us found our way in from the cartoons and we found the characters we liked in them too. So giving Vibe a DC Ink or Zoom title would change how he's perceived and help him in the long run.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    if DC were to hire you to pull a Hickman/Johns and both revamp and spotlight the landscape of their Latino superheroes, how would you go about it?
    What, like they gave me 1-4 books to write/oversee?

    I agree with Mr. Kenway; you gotta do more than just provide a few quality solo books, you need to broaden your scope.

    I'd like to pursue a Blue Beetle cartoon aimed at kids. I think Jaime is perfectly placed to appeal to those demographics. Maybe approach Netflix for it? I'd put him in Young Justice (comic). And I'd secure a trusted writer and launch another solo. Jaime's original run was amazing, but it lost focus once the Reach were defeated. So I'd like to return to that original vibe, but establish the Reach as a sustainable threat and position Jaime as the lone protector against a polite invasion. I'd say something like the Reach empire went to war against Lady Styx and lost. Broken, they scattered across the universe. Some Reach refugees convince Mexico's government to invite them back to earth, and the Reach set up in a town within flying distance of El Paso. And with Mexico's support, there's damn little Jaime can do to root them out, generating a "Lex-Superman" style balance.

    Vibe, I'd like to see him in some YA OGN's (same with Jaime, actually). I think a careful blending of the CW, New52, and yes, the 80's, could work for a YA audience. He'd floss instead of break dance, *not* be an insulting stereotype, be smart and into engineering (but not a genius, the CW takes it too far), and can run to completely different worlds when he's having a hard day and needs to get away for a while. I'd also like to see him on the League (or at least a League B-team), and brought in as part of the supporting cast in Flash. I don't think we're ready for a solo just yet (that'd be the endgame goal though) unless we can get some seriously top-end talent, but he's worth pushing in other ways. I have no idea what the character's standing in the CW is like, but I'd at least look into the possibility of a Vibe spin-off.

    I think Ranee was made for a pulp noir style Black Label book. No idea what it'd be about but I'm sure somebody out there has a good pitch. And I'd suggest a HBO or DCU show but didn't I hear rumors that's happening already?

    And I feel like if I gave Aztek to Matt Fraction and told him to do something with it, he'd give me something worth reading. I don't know what it would be, but my gut tells me to go all in on it.

    I have almost no faith in DC movies. At all. But I'd consider a Fire & Ice film; superheroes meets buddy flick, if I could find the right people for it.
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-31-2020 at 07:55 PM.
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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    DC and Marvel have a lot of characters that play similar roles. Captain America and Superman are the heart and soul of their universes, Thor and Wonder Woman are the gods/demi-gods, Ironman and Batman are billionaire geniuses who wear tech suits, etc. but DC doesn’t really have an A list character who fits that Spider-Man role. They’ve tried on countless occasions to push a young “average Joe” superhero who is given great power and must cope with fighting crime and having a teen/college age social life. Firestorm, Kyle Rayner, Superboy, Wally West, but nothing has really stuck for long. I think Jaime could definitely be DC’s Spider-Man. Obviously no modern character will ever reach the popularity of Spidey, but Jaime could fill the role well. Put him on the Justice League as the junior member.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Put him on the Justice League as the junior member.
    Teenagers as Justice League members is imo a really bad idea.

    If you really want to put him on a team maybe the bast would be, to take a few other teen characters that are not classic members of TT or YJ and currently in limbo (like Supergirl, Star Girl, Black Alice, Sideways ...), and create a new team.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Teenagers as Justice League members is imo a really bad idea.

    If you really want to put him on a team maybe the bast would be, to take a few other teen characters that are not classic members of TT or YJ and currently in limbo (like Supergirl, Star Girl, Black Alice, Sideways ...), and create a new team.
    Rebirth has Jaime at around 17-18. Heís old enough, plus he has the fire power to take on and even beat many on the League. Someone like that belongs on the JL. Both him and Firestorm would make great additions and would be good POVís for the audience.

    The current comics landscape canít support a new team book, it can barley support the ones that have been around for decades!
    Done with DC. Can't handle the constant whiplash! Time to go on a hiatus!

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Gato View Post
    Rebirth has Jaime at around 17-18. Heís old enough, plus he has the fire power to take on and even beat many on the League. Someone like that belongs on the JL. Both him and Firestorm would make great additions and would be good POVís for the audience.
    At least to me the young characters they added to the league felt always completely out of place.

    And 17-18 is imo still to young for the Justice League. Justice League members should imo be at least in their mid 20s.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I agree, the League is no place for kids.

    Jaime has the raw power and has dealt with some serious threats already, and he's a great kid with a good head on his shoulders. But he's still a kid. Put him with Young Justice and people his own age, let him join the League when he's 20.
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  15. #90
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    That's precisely a reason he can be something that can catch on. Besides, there is no rule that says the next big thing has to be a leaguer

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