Which Latino Hero Has the Potential to Become an A-list Character?

[Samm]

There are 5 characters on this poll that stand out to me: Blue Beetle, Jessica Cruz, Kyle Rayner, Sideways and Vibe. The others are either team characters (Fire, Black Condor, Black Orchid, Aztek, Engineer) are virtually underdeveloped (El Diablo, El Dorado, Firebrand) or have no visually cool powers/look (Renee Montoya).

Going by those 5, one has a bad reputation with comic fans and his most popular iteration is as a supporting character on the Flash show (Vibe). Two of them have no connection to their Latino heritage due to being raised by White parents (Kyle and Sideways), so they wouldn’t be ideal choices. That leaves the two currently leading the poll. No surprise there really.

Of those two, both are legacy characters, however Jessica faces much more completion from her predecessors than Jaime does. Jessica has to contend with Hal Jordan and John Stewart, both of whom have large and extremely vocal fan bases as well as a presence in outside media. So Jessica would not be an ideal choice as the top Latino character at DC, though I’d still push her as one of the main GL’s!

So with that said, Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle is my choice. He has the mythology, the villains, the support cast, the team connections and most importantly outside media exposure! He’s the main version of Blue Beetle, both in the comics and outside of them. So I think he should get the A-list push, but the natural push, not the forced one that makes everyone hate him. He’s an awesome character with tons of potential

[The no face guy]

kyle.jpg

1. Green Lantern: Kyle Rayner

I think for me Kyle Rayner, because he's already held down the Green Lantern title for an extended period of time.

I am a Hal fan because that was my childhood hero, but at the end of the day, I can relate more to Kyle, he's more creative and artistic, while Hal is more of a fearless superjock. Initially I was against character replacement, but if the comic industry isn't healthy enough to bring in diversity through new heroes, than ultimately some of the older heroes will have to give way. So I vote for Kyle in the Ion uniform, the white uniform with the hard face mask was not a good look.

2. Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes)

The problem with Jamie is his uniform isn't as aesthetically cool as Ted Kord's, and I am not sure exactly what Jamie does. I prefer Blue Beetle as non powered hero that can rival Batman on the technology front, and wasn't a fan of how Ted Kord became DC's comedy relief. If they put Jamie in Ted Kord's uniform, trained him in martial arts and gave him a flying beetle, I'd be a go.

3. Vibe

For the life of me I never, ever thought I would be writing anything about Vibe, as he was a running joke for the longest time. I don't think it was out of the racism of the time, but rather because initially he was a negtively horrible ethnic sterotyped hero. (to my recollection) but I just finished watching the first two seasons of the Flash tv show on netflixs, and they have done a really good job of reviving his character, so if they can do it on the big screen, they can do it in a comic.

[J. D. Guy]

B]2. Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes) [/B]

The problem with Jamie is his uniform isn't as aesthetically cool as Ted Kord's, and I am not sure exactly what Jamie does. I prefer Blue Beetle as non powered hero that can rival Batman on the technology front, and wasn't a fan of how Ted Kord became DC's comedy relief. If they put Jamie in Ted Kord's uniform, trained him in martial arts and gave him a flying beetle, I'd be a go.

If I may be so direct, I completely, utterly disagree with this. Jaime's costume invokes so many cool aesthetic imagery (the kind you see in many transformation hero, henshin hero, and even tokusatsu style hero works). And that has remained true throughout his different iterations often having their own take on Jaime's Blue Beetle appearance (from the original comic book concept, to his different animated interpretations in Batman: Brave and the Bold, Justice League Action, Young Justice, and the two direct-to-DVD Teen Titans movies, to his more recent comic portrayals in Injustice and post-Rebirth). By contrast, I cannot say that Ted holds a candle to Jaime on a visual level. (Not to say that Ted's costumed look is bad or poor in general or in a vacuum.)

And in general, I feel you have a poor read on who and what Jaime is (even through his different interpretations). It's fine if aren't aware. That said, this part of your post comes off as if you feel you are, despite that not really being the case in-context.

[J. D. Guy]

I also want to point out that in addition to Cisco seeing new life on The Flash CW series, quite of few people, myself included, fell in love with the New 52's take on Vibe, his concept, and his family (his two brothers). That was what renewed the basic interest in Vibe in general, and it was a superbly solid book that should have continued to be a thing. While many who bring up Vibe do so in reference to the CW version, there are others who do so in reference to bringing back the New 52 version.


(And an aside to the above, but I have read some people's takes that have felt that even the JL Detroit's Vibe wasn't as bad and/or was relatively decent in practice in the context of actually following the character's usage. Like something in the lines of the creation of the concept was flawed, but the practice of its usage was decent. Definitely not the "Superfriends Aquaman" take that most tend to dismiss it as. That said, I've never read his tenure then myself to really weigh in my own firsthand opinions, so I don't know.)

[Samm]

kyle.jpg

1. Green Lantern: Kyle Rayner

I think for me Kyle Rayner, because he's already held down the Green Lantern title for an extended period of time.

I am a Hal fan because that was my childhood hero, but at the end of the day, I can relate more to Kyle, he's more creative and artistic, while Hal is more of a fearless superjock. Initially I was against character replacement, but if the comic industry isn't healthy enough to bring in diversity through new heroes, than ultimately some of the older heroes will have to give way. So I vote for Kyle in the Ion uniform, the white uniform with the hard face mask was not a good look.

2. Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes)

The problem with Jamie is his uniform isn't as aesthetically cool as Ted Kord's, and I am not sure exactly what Jamie does. I prefer Blue Beetle as non powered hero that can rival Batman on the technology front, and wasn't a fan of how Ted Kord became DC's comedy relief. If they put Jamie in Ted Kord's uniform, trained him in martial arts and gave him a flying beetle, I'd be a go.

3. Vibe

For the life of me I never, ever thought I would be writing anything about Vibe, as he was a running joke for the longest time. I don't think it was out of the racism of the time, but rather because initially he was a negtively horrible ethnic sterotyped hero. (to my recollection) but I just finished watching the first two seasons of the Flash tv show on netflixs, and they have done a really good job of reviving his character, so if they can do it on the big screen, they can do it in a comic.

I think Jaime has a far cooler look than Ted Kord. Black and Blue is a really good combination. Not to mention the whole armor and alien origin is a huge plus. Last ting I’d want is a de powered Jaime aka Brown Ted Kord. That would remove all uniqueness Jaime has.

Also not surprising he’s leading the poll here and in the Latinos thread. He basically has all the tools for A-list status.

[The no face guy]

I think Jaime has a far cooler look than Ted Kord. Black and Blue is a really good combination. Not to mention the whole armor and alien origin is a huge plus. Last ting IÂ’d want is a de powered Jaime aka Brown Ted Kord. That would remove all uniqueness Jaime has.

Also not surprising heÂ’s leading the poll here and in the Latinos thread. He basically has all the tools for A-list status.

I wasn't intentionally attempting to stir the hornets nest, but based on the last two Blue Beetle runs, both which were cancelled in under two years for low sales , I think some changes would have to be made to Jamie as Blue Beetle if he is going to have any potential to become an A list character, whereas Kyle Rayner is a character that has already been proven to hold down a comic title for a considerable amount of time.

You can't rely on an internet forum poll to determine an A list character, because there was another Blue Beetle poll not too long ago, where Ted Kord was way ahead of Jamie in votes at the time. I was simply trying to think of a way to make him more appealing, particularly to Ted Kord fans, or comic fans in general.

[Samm]

I wasn't intentionally attempting to stir the hornets nest, but based on the last two Blue Beetle runs, both which were cancelled in under two years for low sales , I think some changes would have to be made to Jamie as Blue Beetle if he is going to have any potential to become an A list character, whereas Kyle Rayner is a character that has already been proven to hold down a comic title for a considerable amount of time.

You can't rely on an internet forum poll to determine an A list character, because there was another Blue Beetle poll not too long ago, where Ted Kord was way ahead of Jamie in votes at the time. I was simply trying to think of a way to make him more appealing, particularly to Ted Kord fans, or comic fans in general.

Jaime’s popularity comes from outside media, not from the comic reading audience, though to be fair that’s true of all of DC’s minority characters. Comic fans just aren’t willing to support characters that aren’t related to the Big 5 (hence the likes of Green Arrow, Aquaman and Hawkman barely being able to support a title). Don’t know whether DC is to blame for that or comic fans, but I’m leaning more towards DC, since the movies/tv shows/ video games have no problem pushing those characters. Just want to point out that Blue Beetle has never really been a huge seller ( Ted has 29 solo issues from 2 volumes, Dan has 73 from 4 volumes some of which were reprinted stories, Jaime has 72 solo issues in 3 volumes).

The reason I wouldn’t push Kyle as the main Latino hero in the DCU is because he didn’t really grow up Latino. He grew up his whole life thinking he was White and was raised by his Irish mother. For all intents and purposes, he is essentially a White character, a great character mind you, but not one I’d push to the forefront. If any of the Latino GL’s were to get a push (Kyle, Jessica, Keli) then I’d go with Jessica as my top choice.

[The no face guy]

I am looking at it from a sales perspective. Both Green Arrow and Aquaman have had several good runs, and the last Green Arrow run wasn't cancelled for sale reasons. Hawkman has traditionally been less popular than the two, but he has had a successful run.

Your stats on Ted Kord are misleading. Ted Kord has only had one DC run, and it was back in 1986 before he had the popular cult following as Booster Gold's sideckick that grew over the decades. You do bring up an interesting point though. Would a Ted Kord run be successful? With the last to Jamie runs bombing, who knows, maybe Ted will be back by popular demand?

You make a valid point with Kyle that I wasn't aware of, but you can always change story narratives and origins with the timeline reboots to have his history firmly grounded in Latino heritage, something I think DC should probably do. In terms of visual diversity, Kyle's is out in the open as seen above, whereas you won't know with Jamie until he takes off his costume, he could be Norwegian under there for all I know.

But I get it, your a passionate fan of Jamie Reyes and that is a good thing, because it means there is a solid fanbase out there willing to spend money to support the character, and he will most likely continue to get media exposure as DC should have a roster that reflects the demographics of today and not the 1960's. If not, i'm sure they will find other heroes. I simply think some changes need to be made before he becomes more popular.

[Ascended]

Eh, the thing with Kyle is nothing more than bad race-bending, and it's not even as effective as other examples of bad race-bending. Kyle was Irish American for like, the first ten years of his existence, then we got a random story where he found out his father was Mexican, and as soon as that story ended it was never mentioned again. I don't care who his daddy is, Kyle's not an appropriate example of Latino representation. In my opinion he shouldn't even be on this poll.

It'd be like me (Irish/Scottish) finding out I'm part Cree (Native American) tomorrow. Sure, now I know that I'm Native, but I wasn't raised as such, I know almost nothing about Cree traditions or history and if I tried to claim that I represent the Cree, I'd rightfully be laughed at and actual Cree would rightfully be pissed at me trying to claim a heritage that, genetics aside, I don't belong to.

Now, if Kyle had taken this new information about his dad and learned about that side of his heritage, that'd have been one thing. Nothing wrong with somebody wanting to learn more about where they come from and embracing that. But this didn't happen and Kyle just went about his business, and his father being Mexican was never mentioned again by him or anyone else. Likewise, the revelation that Dick Grayson is part Romani doesn't give Dick the right to claim that as his culture when he didn't grow up in it and it's had no place in his character or narrative. Both examples are just DC trying to use cheat codes to get the level of representation they need; bending popular and established characters instead of utilizing and investing in the *actual* minority characters they have.

[The no face guy]

Well as stated, I was not privy to that information before, and that does change things for me on a personal level. I always wondered how Kyle transitioned to becoming Latino.

Nevertheless, in terms of sales and character popularity, Kyle has had the most success from an empirical standpoint based on comic sales. Which means that he most likely has the best potential to become an A list character. I did not create this list, so from looking at it Kyle seemed like the obvious choice.

Now if the post had said, who should become the first A list representative for Latino's in DC comics, that changes the question. If the post was based on the best representative of diversity in the Latino community than Jessica Cruz would be the best fit, as she is 1) fully Latino, 2) a woman and 3) assuming the title of one of the big six heroes, which has been successfully proven to sell through the decades.

Personally, I think the best A list Latino character hasn't been created yet, although traditionally I have been opposed to replacing people's favourite superheroes, Batman and Superman fans have had it pretty easy over the years. With the Hispanic population set to exponentially grow in the coming decades, I think that either Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne should give way to a new latino character.

[Samm]

Personally, I wouldn’t want DC’s A-list Latino hero to be a legacy character who took the mantle from a White predecessor, especially not Superman or Batman. Blue Beetle is an exception simply because he is vastly different from both Ted Kord and Dan Garrett, to the point of the only commonality being the superhero alias used. DC could have easily given Jaime a unique superhero alias like Blue Scorpion or Scarab or something like that and it wouldn’t have changed much about the character (well personally, power set, mythology wise). Only thing that would have changed is his trying to live up to the Blue Beetle legacy. But personally though, Jaime is Blue Beetle in the same way Diana is Wonder Woman, Clark is Superman...etc. He basically did to Ted and Dan what Hal did to Alan or Barry did to Jay during the silver age.

Jessica and Kyle would have an uphill battle because Hal and John are incredibly poplular, with huge fanbases. Jaime doesn’t have that problem with Ted or Dan.

[The no face guy]

I think Batman would be the perfect character for a latino to take the mantle, Gotham's based on either New York & Chicago, and the street thugs today are no longer the Italians & Irish of yesteryears, so a rich white vigalante crackin down on crime in a minority majority city isn't the best optics.

If DC wants to bring in more diversity than they should go pick, and pick one of the big 3, instead of skirting around the edges. The industry is too weak to grow new heroes who have huge fan bases in my opinion.

I agree with you on Hal Jordan though. He's been replaced too many times, time to give his fans a break, and pick another hero.

I think you underestimate the popularity of Ted Kord, he has a huge fanbase, at least on par, or more than John Stewart's

[Username taken]

A-list Latino hero, I’d have to say Blue Beetle.

Such an interesting character, good look, cool power set and interesting back story.

I’m not sure why DC isn’t using the character more to be honest.

[Sutekh]

Eh, the thing with Kyle is nothing more than bad race-bending, and it's not even as effective as other examples of bad race-bending. Kyle was Irish American for like, the first ten years of his existence, then we got a random story where he found out his father was Mexican, and as soon as that story ended it was never mentioned again. I don't care who his daddy is, Kyle's not an appropriate example of Latino representation. In my opinion he shouldn't even be on this poll.

It'd be like me (Irish/Scottish) finding out I'm part Cree (Native American) tomorrow.

I tend to agree, and your example is particularly funny since I'm also from white Europe, and found out at like, 40, that somewhere five or so generations back one of my French furrier/trapper ancestors brought home a Native American girl to France, so I'm like a billionth part some Canadian 'Indian' tribe. And yet, I don't even know *the name of the tribe.* So, yeah, not exactly a great representative of whatever culture that is...

A decent writer could change all that, tho. Kyle moving to Mexico City, because his long-lost dad reached out to him, and getting immersed in that culture (perhaps finding out that his dad had valid reasons for not being part of his life, and wasn't just some deadbeat) and finding out not only that he's got family down south, but is part of a *big* traditional family, some welcoming, some, not so much..., could make the retcon relevant. But, as a Green Lantern, he's kind of got a strike against him anyway, especially as an experienced one, who is more or less expected to have moved past earthly matters and operate on a more cosmic / interstellar scale at this point. So I've come full circle and talked myself back out of it. Circular reasoning, self-sabotage and shooting my own arguments in the foot! One more service I offer!

[Samm]

I think Batman would be the perfect character for a latino to take the mantle, Gotham's based on either New York & Chicago, and the street thugs today are no longer the Italians & Irish of yesteryears, so a rich white vigalante crackin down on crime in a minority majority city isn't the best optics.

If DC wants to bring in more diversity than they should go pick, and pick one of the big 3, instead of skirting around the edges. The industry is too weak to grow new heroes who have huge fan bases in my opinion.

I agree with you on Hal Jordan though. He's been replaced too many times, time to give his fans a break, and pick another hero.

I think you underestimate the popularity of Ted Kord, he has a huge fanbase, at least on par, or more than John Stewart's

That’s where outside media comes in and graphic novels. A character won’t become A-list with just the comics alone, that’s too niche an audience. I think that’s where Jaime and Jessica have an advantage, they’ve received outside media attention. Probably why they’re leading the polls (this one and the Latinos of the DCU one).

As for Ted Kord. I’m definitely not underestimating his popularity. He’s popular (when paired with Booster Gold) amongst comic fans, but a nobody outside of comics. His fan base is definitely not on par with John Stewart. I think you’re overestimating his appeal.