Historically, has the JSA or JLA had more powerful members?

[Buried Alien]

Looking through the historical rosters of the JSA and JLA, which of the two teams has had the overall more powerful roster? Let's take the Spectre out of consideration because after all, with him, the JSA takes it hands down.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The no face guy]

Right, good post, but do you mean historically as in the JSA, 1940's golden age heroes, versus 1960 JLA silver age, or just their most consistent classic members?

The golden age Wonder Woman (the Earth 2 version) was wiped out of existence after crisis...if I recall correct? She nor the Black Canary 2, haven't been around much, would we include them?

[Buried Alien]

Right, good post, but do you mean historically as in the JSA, 1940's golden age heroes, versus 1960 JLA silver age, or just their most consistent classic members?

The golden age Wonder Woman (the Earth 2 version) was wiped out of existence after crisis...if I recall correct? She nor the Black Canary 2, haven't been around much, would we include them?

I think comprehensively considering both teams throughout their histories, in all continuities, excluding only the Spectre from consideration.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[BohemiaDrinker]

What complicates matters here is that quite a few of them were at both teams in different periods.

Dr. Fate is a powerhouse, but was both a JSAer and a JLAer. Same goes for Cap Marvel.

Also, are we considering pre-Crisis JSA here? If we are, they may take the cake, since I don't think any other team ever had 2 full-blooded pre-Crisis Kryptonians.

[The no face guy]

I think comprehensively considering both teams throughout their histories, in all continuities, excluding only the Spectre from consideration.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Okay I'm am going to give it a go, but I find it a bit difficult as the JSA has been a bit more transient since Crisis on Infinite Earths.

I will take the classic JLA line from the 60's to mid 80's (excluding Phantom Stranger, Enlongated Man and Metamorpho, who I do not believe they have ever had long stints as JLA members) Thus the list of the solid 15.

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
The Flash (Barry Allen)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter
Green Arrow (Oliver Queen)
Atom
Hawkman
Black Canary
Firestorm
Red Tornado
Hawkgirl
Zatanna

To make things fair I am going to add 15 historic JSA members. I will include both the earth 2 Wonder Woman and Power Girl, because apparently they were both mainstays of the 70's All Star Comics series, perhaps someone older and wiser than myself can confirm that. I will delete Black Canary 2 though, for the sake of keeping it to 15, and because she doesn't really exist in the present timeline (man I am such a geek to know all this) I will also not include Black Atom, or Captain Marvel, as historically they haven't been mainstay members, and the former of course went rotten on the team. So here they are...

Dr Fate
Mister Terrific (Michael Holt)
Jahkeem/Johnny Thunder
Flash Jay Garrett
Green Lantern Alan Scott
Starman
Hourman
Wildcat
Atom
Hawkman
Doctor Midnight
Sandman
Star Spangled Kid
Power Girl
Wonder Woman (Earth 2)

Right now I must sit and contemplate....

[The no face guy]

In a battle between Superman and Power Girl, Superman wins. He is the most physically powerful hero on the two teams but...

Dr Fate clearly beats Zatanna; the problem with Dr. Fate is he can take out half the JLA including Superman probably in one go.

Barry Allen has been noted to be faster than Jay

I'm not sure if they ever resolved Alan Scott's ring being nullified by wood, but I think Hal's sheer willpower & determination takes the cake.

Wonder Woman vs Wonder Woman, I suppose you go with the younger stronger version

As for the rest, Batman will clearly mop the floor with any of JSA's non super powered heroes, but yet there is another wild card in the deck. Jakheem Thunder is really powerful, but you take out Jakheem and you can nullify the genie. (Kind of like covering Billy Batson's mouth)

I don't know, I think overall the JLA is stronger, but the JSA has Dr Fate, and the genie.

[Aahz]

Dr Fate clearly beats Zatanna; the problem with Dr. Fate is he can take out half the JLA including Superman probably in one go.

There was iirc also a time where Fate didn't had his full power and was not using the real Helmet of Fate.

Btw. the Cosmic Rod/Belt is iirc comparable in Power to Green Lantern Ring that gives the JSA wit Starman (and depending on the Version Star Spangled Kid) and additional Powerhouse.

[Digifiend]

As for the rest, Batman will clearly mop the floor with any of JSA's non super powered heroes, but yet there is another wild card in the deck. Jakheem Thunder is really powerful, but you take out Jakheem and you can nullify the genie. (Kind of like covering Billy Batson's mouth)

Are you reading Teen Titans? The genie got nullified last issue without Jakeem being put out of commission (he had to flee with the team). The reason was a case of fighting fire with fire - they were fighting two other genies (one of whom was being controlled and is actually one of the Titans).

Flash Jay Garrett

Jay Garrick.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

In a battle between Superman and Power Girl, Superman wins. He is the most physically powerful hero on the two teams but...

It's been argued that J'onn J'onzz is stronger than Superman and therefore, could subdue Power Girl.

As for the rest, Batman will clearly mop the floor with any of JSA's non super powered heroes.

Not so fast, if memory serves, Bats historically had trouble matching up with Wildcat in hand to hand combat.

Jakheem Thunder is really powerful, but you take out Jakheem and you can nullify the genie. (Kind of like covering Billy Batson's mouth)

I think Firestorm could take out Jakeem and the genie, especially with Professor Stein giving advice.

[The Darknight Detective]

I think comprehensively considering both teams throughout their histories, in all continuities, excluding only the Spectre from consideration.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Does the exclusion also go for the Phantom Stranger? I know he wasn't a full-time JLA member, but he was as powerful as anybody pre-COIE.

[ducklord]

Does the exclusion also go for the Phantom Stranger? I know he wasn't a full-time JLA member, but he was as powerful as anybody pre-COIE.

For the full classic bronze age JLA, you've basically got:

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
Flash
Aquaman
J'Onn
Hawkman
Atom
Green Arrow
Black Canary
Elongated Man
Red Tornado
Hawkwoman
Zatanna
Firestorm

Phantom Stranger is an odd duck. He was officially offered membership (as opposed to some auxiliary members like Batgirl and Metamorpho), and he never turned it down (like Black Lightning did). He even showed up when summoned by the JLA communicator on a few occasions. I like to include him, but it's probably a more legitimate argument that he shouldn't be.

For the JSA, up until the Crisis you've got:
Flash
Green Lantern
Hawkman
Atom
Dr. Fate
Spectre
Hourman
Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Starman
Wildcat
Mr. Terrific
Johnny Thunder
Black Canary
Robin
Star Spangled Kid
Power Girl
Huntress

Although the JSA has a few more members than the JLA, they are overloaded with "regular guys in masks" - Batman, Huntress, Robin, Black Canary, Mr. Terrific, Wildcat, and Sandman. Even accounting for the Atom's later atomic punch, that puts them at a disadvantage.

Where the JSA has a clear advantage is in magic. Between the Spectre, Dr. Fate, and Johnny Thunder, they've could wrap up a battle with the JLA in seconds on their lonesome. Zatanna and the Phantom Stranger are powerhouses in their own right, but they don't measure up.

If you're willing to call the duplicates a draw (just for the sake of argument), then the JSA has advantages in numbers on a few fronts. They've got a Batman, a Robin, and a Huntress to counter the JLA's Batman, as well as a Superman and a Powergirl to take out the JLA's Superman. The JLA has an advantage with two Hawkpeople to counter the JSA's singular Hawkman.

The JLA's clear advantage is in variety. They have a stretchy guy, a guy who commands sharks, a shrinky guy, a guy who shoots arrows, a gal who screams real loud, an android who creates tornadoes, a telepathic stretchy guy with near-superman strength, and a kid who can alter fires atomic blasts AND can rearrange molecules if he's given a few seconds to think about it. All the JSA has left in the tank at that point are couple of guys with (admittedly bitchin') cosmic rod technology, and Al Pratt's atomic punch.

Basically, if the JLA can somehow stop the Spectre from turning them into rubber ducks and rip off Fate's helmet, the JLA probably wins in a walk.

[Aahz]

Although the JSA has a few more members than the JLA, they are overloaded with "regular guys in masks" - Batman, Huntress, Robin, Black Canary, Mr. Terrific, Wildcat, and Sandman. Even accounting for the Atom's later atomic punch, that puts them at a disadvantage.

But a lot of those guys, allready pretty old and mostly retired during the bronze age (Robin was pushing 60 at the time of COIE), and some (Batman and Mr. Terrific) were killed.
Batman and Huntress were iirc also never active at the same time.

And Black canary left the JSA for the JLA.

[The no face guy]

For the full classic bronze age JLA, you've basically got:

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
Flash
Aquaman
J'Onn
Hawkman
Atom
Green Arrow
Black Canary
Elongated Man
Red Tornado
Hawkwoman
Zatanna
Firestorm

Phantom Stranger is an odd duck. He was officially offered membership (as opposed to some auxiliary members like Batgirl and Metamorpho), and he never turned it down (like Black Lightning did). He even showed up when summoned by the JLA communicator on a few occasions. I like to include him, but it's probably a more legitimate argument that he shouldn't be.

For the JSA, up until the Crisis you've got:
Flash
Green Lantern
Hawkman
Atom
Dr. Fate
Spectre
Hourman
Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Starman
Wildcat
Mr. Terrific
Johnny Thunder
Black Canary
Robin
Star Spangled Kid
Power Girl
Huntress

Although the JSA has a few more members than the JLA, they are overloaded with "regular guys in masks" - Batman, Huntress, Robin, Black Canary, Mr. Terrific, Wildcat, and Sandman. Even accounting for the Atom's later atomic punch, that puts them at a disadvantage.

Where the JSA has a clear advantage is in magic. Between the Spectre, Dr. Fate, and Johnny Thunder, they've could wrap up a battle with the JLA in seconds on their lonesome. Zatanna and the Phantom Stranger are powerhouses in their own right, but they don't measure up.

If you're willing to call the duplicates a draw (just for the sake of argument), then the JSA has advantages in numbers on a few fronts. They've got a Batman, a Robin, and a Huntress to counter the JLA's Batman, as well as a Superman and a Powergirl to take out the JLA's Superman. The JLA has an advantage with two Hawkpeople to counter the JSA's singular Hawkman.

The JLA's clear advantage is in variety. They have a stretchy guy, a guy who commands sharks, a shrinky guy, a guy who shoots arrows, a gal who screams real loud, an android who creates tornadoes, a telepathic stretchy guy with near-superman strength, and a kid who can alter fires atomic blasts AND can rearrange molecules if he's given a few seconds to think about it. All the JSA has left in the tank at that point are couple of guys with (admittedly bitchin') cosmic rod technology, and Al Pratt's atomic punch.

Basically, if the JLA can somehow stop the Spectre from turning them into rubber ducks and rip off Fate's helmet, the JLA probably wins in a walk.

Good list, we've got the JLA down, but....(Critique time) I don't think Earth 2 Superman, or Batman & Robin were ever regular members or even part of the team. You also left out Dr. Midnight and Sandman & Sandy which were classic regular members. He also wanted the Spectre omitted, and was looking for some kind of continuation, so the question as to whether we should be putting earth 2 Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and the first version of the Huntress remains a question mark.

Figuring out the JSA is harder because you need someone who was reading the 1976 run, (I doubt we will find anyone for the 1940's run.) Below are links to all the major JSA comic runs, listing the heroes. The 1976 version starts at issue 58. I do not have the time or inclination to go through this, but if anyone wants to put together the classic team, with Geoff Johns run in mind, the links for appearances are below

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/All-Star_Comics_Vol_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_D...ety_of_America
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/America_v..._Society_Vol_1
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_S..._America_Vol_1
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_S..._America_Vol_2
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_S..._America_Vol_3