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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    You're gonna start applying that to Hulk you got to apply it for every time Tony wore the suit while hammered, every time an X-Men goes "Blarg, I can't control my powers, the Pheonix, Blargh," etc. etc.

    Unlike the Hulk they generally operate in one of the most densely populated areas in the world, so the death tolls gonna be a lot greater too.
    But they don't hold for the X-men. Like Namor destroyed wakanda with the phoenix
    Cyclops killed Xavier and became a terrorist with the phoenix
    They also don't hold back for mutants, like recently there was a marvel 1000 story where a mutant loses control and destroys a town. When wanda depowered mutants they showed many dying.

    To a large extent this is because most of these stories are from the mid 2000s and onwards, where they didn't care about showing collateral damage. Since hulk's been doing this from the 60s, they just went... ehhh super-math. Though that probably doesn't explain the time she-hulk leveled bone idaho with 0 deaths, and the one death was a murder.

    Like the OG dark phoenix story ended with them saying "this wasn't even jean, it was the phoenix, jean is in jamaica bay" for comparison to how they handled the phoenix casualties for the x-men back in the day.

    I also remember cable/surfer having a fight, where they were just like "Yeah, we destroyed and rebuilt everything in our wake, no real harm done"

    Of course, sometimes he statements can be contradictory. Like Bendis had wonder-man claim hulk destroyed and killed many people, but then again that guy wasn't right in the head at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Tony being drunk in the suit is actually extraordinarily rare. He wasn't retconned into being an alcoholic until two decades after his creation. And there were only two major stories about him being an alcoholic, neither of which had him kill anyone.
    Yeah, this. THe only person who died was the politician, and that was just tampering because of Justin Hammer. But he does get "protected", like the time he dropped a chlorine gas freight , but noone really got hurt cuz of gas masks.
    Last edited by Ichijinijisanji; 03-18-2020 at 02:04 AM.

  2. #17
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    Can anyone recommend a good Hulk story? Ideal for me would be one where he doesn't kill anyone. I really need help here.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    But they don't hold for the X-men. Like Namor destroyed wakanda with the phoenix
    Cyclops killed Xavier and became a terrorist with the phoenix
    They also don't hold back for mutants, like recently there was a marvel 1000 story where a mutant loses control and destroys a town. When wanda depowered mutants they showed many dying.

    To a large extent this is because most of these stories are from the mid 2000s and onwards, where they didn't care about showing collateral damage. Since hulk's been doing this from the 60s, they just went... ehhh super-math. Though that probably doesn't explain the time she-hulk leveled bone idaho with 0 deaths, and the one death was a murder.
    In fairness, Hulk rampages a lot. If he left bodies after each one, he'd lose a great deal of sympathy.

    That is the big problem with Bendis, Millar et all, they write stories without considering the character's long term viability.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    In fairness, Hulk rampages a lot. If he left bodies after each one, he'd lose a great deal of sympathy.

    That is the big problem with Bendis, Millar et all, they write stories without considering the character's long term viability.
    At the same time, it can take out the bite of having an uncontrollable rage monster. It's basically them trying to have it both ways.

    Additionally property damage is pretty brutal, but people don't always go into the nitty gritty of that and so it feels consequential without consequences. Ewing recently showed how the stress of losing a home contributed to a death in Jackie's dad.

    Though I remember in greg pak's run that bruce shut down complaints of property damage of some space shuttles with something along the lines of it creating more jobs and improving the economy to rebuild (but then again there wasn't a lot of human cost there like homes being leveled there)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    At the same time, it can take out the bite of having an uncontrollable rage monster. It's basically them trying to have it both ways.

    Additionally property damage is pretty brutal, but people don't always go into the nitty gritty of that and so it feels consequential without consequences. Ewing recently showed how the stress of losing a home contributed to a death in Jackie's dad.

    Though I remember in greg pak's run that bruce shut down complaints of property damage of some space shuttles with something along the lines of it creating more jobs and improving the economy to rebuild (but then again there wasn't a lot of human cost there like homes being leveled there)
    Property damage is one thing, constant deaths is another, though.

    I don't remember Marvel ever really denying that Hulk's rampages took a huge toll, even sans death. Long before Ewing, Fabian N acknowledged the toll when Hulk appeared in his first Thunderbolts issue.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Property damage is one thing, constant deaths is another, though.
    yeah i realize it. It's better off that way, unless you can do a short alternate reality story about it with a more definite end.

    I don't remember Marvel ever really denying that Hulk's rampages took a huge toll, even sans death. Long before Ewing, Fabian N acknowledged the toll when Hulk appeared in his first Thunderbolts issue.
    certainly, but in marvel the city can get rebuilt extremely quickly and lacks the emotional punch as a result of more being confronted directly with it

    For example, remember when Kang destroyed washington DC?
    Now the death aside, we basically saw washington rebuilt overnight, good as new.

    Imagine how big of industry damage control and it's ilk would be in this universe. cot dam

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    At the same time, it can take out the bite of having an uncontrollable rage monster. It's basically them trying to have it both ways.

    Additionally property damage is pretty brutal, but people don't always go into the nitty gritty of that and so it feels consequential without consequences. Ewing recently showed how the stress of losing a home contributed to a death in Jackie's dad.
    Happened in PAD's runs, as well. I remember Savage Hulk came to a town once to "get away" and told everyone to get out, they did. Yet I was supposed to sympathise with him when he's ruining people lives and is only concerned about himself.

    Though I remember in greg pak's run that bruce shut down complaints of property damage of some space shuttles with something along the lines of it creating more jobs and improving the economy to rebuild (but then again there wasn't a lot of human cost there like homes being leveled there)
    Pak's Hulk is a monster who relies on everyone being written as "weak" morally or physically against him, or he'd be viewed as a villain he was. I don't think he'd have batted an eyelash if he had injured or killed people, and he was more reckless than the Savage Hulk in his brutality.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Pak's Hulk is a monster who relies on everyone being written as "weak" morally or physically against him, or he'd be viewed as a villain he was. I don't think he'd have batted an eyelash if he had injured or killed people, and he was more reckless than the Savage Hulk in his brutality.
    ehh honestly pak's hulk came out after civil war and illuminati going nuts
    it's very easy to tear down the heroes in charge at that time with some exceptions like dr strange
    nova got to do it too verbally to tony

    also a large part of it was that hulk didn't actually kill someone, because bruce banner and hulk were the same person and bruce's superintelligence and moral compass prevented hulk from killin unless he was compromised mentally.

    Him injuring people is a different beast however. They also brought out how hulk broke rick jones' back back then.

  9. #24
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    Now I'm looking for a good hulk story. As can easily be seen in the original post it should ideally be a story in which hulk does not kill anyone. For me it is very confusing with the different storylines and writers.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zolos View Post
    Now I'm looking for a good hulk story. As can easily be seen in the original post it should ideally be a story in which hulk does not kill anyone. For me it is very confusing with the different storylines and writers.
    Incredible Hulk#611. “ Sons of Wraith” Green Scar hulk’s fight against his fight son, Skaar. This issue perfectly illustrates Hulk’s duality as both “ monster” and hero. And no, he doesn’t kill anyone.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenlyDemonic View Post
    Incredible Hulk#611. “ Sons of Wraith” Green Scar hulk’s fight against his fight son, Skaar. This issue perfectly illustrates Hulk’s duality as both “ monster” and hero. And no, he doesn’t kill anyone.
    You are my savior! I have now bought "Incredible Hulk vol.3: world war hulks". It includes Incredible Hulk. #609-#611. I liked the preview.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I don't remember Marvel ever really denying that Hulk's rampages took a huge toll, even sans death. Long before Ewing, Fabian N acknowledged the toll when Hulk appeared in his first Thunderbolts issue.
    In World War Hulk, Amadeus Cho once claimed that Hulk could never have killed anyone because Banner was controlling his punches so they wouldn't actually kill anyone based on calculations he was doing while fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    ehh honestly pak's hulk came out after civil war and illuminati going nuts
    it's very easy to tear down the heroes in charge at that time with some exceptions like dr strange
    nova got to do it too verbally to tony

    also a large part of it was that hulk didn't actually kill someone, because bruce banner and hulk were the same person and bruce's superintelligence and moral compass prevented hulk from killin unless he was compromised mentally.

    Him injuring people is a different beast however. They also brought out how hulk broke rick jones' back back then.
    The Illuminati had done a lot that was deserving of criticism. Launching the Hulk into space after he went on a rampage that killed at least 22 people wasn't one of them. Especially since this was when anti-superhero sentiment was at an all-time high.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 03-20-2020 at 06:06 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zolos View Post
    Can anyone recommend a good Hulk story? Ideal for me would be one where he doesn't kill anyone. I really need help here.
    Does it have to be recent? I really enjoyed IH 300 - 313, where Hulk was banished to the nexus of realities. Absolute must read for true Hulk fans, complete with essential back story for Banner.
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "Would you give a guy a foot massage?"
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "You said clear."
    "I said it looks clear."
    "Well what's it look like now?"
    "Looks clear."

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    ehh honestly pak's hulk came out after civil war and illuminati going nuts
    it's very easy to tear down the heroes in charge at that time with some exceptions like dr strange
    nova got to do it too verbally to tony
    The Illuminati were horrible but Hulk's the last person to call them on anything. At least they are trying to save the world in their twisted agenda, Hulk will destroy your house if he's having a tantrum. That is, when he's not a super-villain - like his Maestro persona. Nova has the high ground on them, not Hulk. Exiling him was actually one of their better ideas and the details of how it went wrong weren't all on them since he got directed to a planet he wasn't supposed to be, he ended up liking it there anyway and the world exploded because his "friend" did something stupid. None of that is on the Illuminati. It's not like they did this to She-Hulk, that would have been wrong. They gave him his greatest wish and he became another super-villain in response.

    Edit: What separates Pak's Hulk from Hickman's Illuminati is that Hickman's deconstructing them, Pak's thinks Hulk is a role model.

    also a large part of it was that hulk didn't actually kill someone, because bruce banner and hulk were the same person and bruce's superintelligence and moral compass prevented hulk from killin unless he was compromised mentally.
    Marvel knows were this to be acknowledged it's be much harder to market him to readers. Having a higher bodycount than the Punisher because he's apathetic when he's traveling around the world like the Juggernaut isn't the kind of brand they want Hulk to be.

    Him injuring people is a different beast however. They also brought out how hulk broke rick jones' back back then.
    If Marvel were more inclined to be realistic about the Hulk's activities he'd have a mountain of people in that position from his rampages and that doesn't touch the financial implications of his destruction. In every book I've read with Hulk in it, this is a non-issue for him and nobody brings it up. Not that they'd have to, considering his history as it is - the super-hero community could have a year old long trial of the destruction he causes just from his Savage persona.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 03-20-2020 at 07:26 AM.

  15. #30
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    I think it's sort of implied that the "Mindless Hulk" that came out of Banner suppressing himself due to Nightmare's manipulation shortly after the first Secret Wars, and later came out of Banner being physically separated from the Hulk, might've killed innocents.

    That's around issues #296-324, which includes the "Crossroads" saga in which Banner and the savage persona eventually re-emerge, only to go completely mindless again when Banner is physically separated (This is a short run of issues scripted and written by Bryne, perhaps most notable for finally marrying Bruce & Betty, and bringing back Rick, General Ross & Doc Samson back into the book, starting to plant the seeds for the Peter David run). Eventually, Banner is re-merged into the Hulk, which eventually leads to a series of events which reawakens the original Hulk, the Grey Hulk. (It sort of helps a bit that Bryne, in one of his issues, has Banner notice that the savage and grey Hulks look noticeably different).
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