Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular #1 (Discussion)

[dietrich]

These range friom great to good to downright disrespecful.

Dick had the best storeis. Jason's one story was a gem.
The Supersons story about the supersons nothing to do with Robin which was exactly what I predicted it would be.
Damian's second story was about hima s a son not as Robin. The story was an emotional Gut punch but it had nothing to do with Damian as Robin.

Steph's was Funny.
Tim's ... well I guess now we know why Poor Carrie doesn't get a story.
You can't write a story about what makes Tim stand out if you write a story of Carrie.

You can't tell lies about Tim's uniqueness. About Tim's smartness, about Tim actively going after the role of Robin you can't lie about Tim's character or place in the Pantheon on Robins if you include the the Ginger haired Hair who did it all first Years before Tim Drake ever was imagined.

We didn't get a Carrie Story in order to main the Lie which is that Tim Drake Is an original a concept which is diabolical and disgraceful.
The original 3rd Robin redefined the role of Robin. Carrie was the was the 1st Modern Robin impressing Batman with her smarts and tech skills. She should have been honoured with t least one story.

[phonogram12]

Next to the first two Dick stories, Tim's were probably my favorite. Gave proper respect to the character that's been missing for quite some time.

[Frontier]

This is probably the best tribute to the Robin identity and those who have held it that DC has done in years, especially compared to past few attempts. I think each story did a good job of finding the core of the character, how they relate to the identity of Robin and what it meant to them, as well as conveying what is so important about Robin .

I'm glad this wasn't a special that vilified Batman. Even in the stories where he seems to be hard or demanding of Robin, it has a purpose and there was always a silver lining at the end of the story. I was worried for a second with the Wolfman and Grayson story, but they turned it around.

The Titans storyline did feel a little randomly put in there, since it was mostly just Darhk commenting on how incompetent HIVE is in relation to the Titans. I get it was trying to convey how great a leader Dick is, which is an important facet of the character, but still. I did find it amusing how there was a token female HIVE goon in there, and seeing the Post-Crisis Titans at their best was nice.

I knew the Grayson story couldn't resist getting Dick shirtless. So, Dick and that ape...did something happen ?

I found it funny how the Red Hood story didn't even have Jason wearing his red hood. But I do think it got to the core of Jason and Bruce's relationship quite well.

The Steph story made me think that she could've been a really great Robin if writers had actually committed to her. Although you can kind of tell they're working off the idea that Bruce was just using Steph as a means of getting Tim back in the suit with how little thought he seem to put into Steph as Robin. Like, he just assumes she'll be comfortable wearing suits designed for boys? And while I liked Bruce giving Steph her own changing area...shouldn't there be specific changing areas in the Batcave already? I guess they're not meant to be co-ed since it's usually just Bruce and the male Robin, but still. It kind of came off like Bruce is not used to working with girls but continuity-wise Babs and Cass had both probably been in the cave frequently by then.

The Tynion Tim story was overly wordy and maybe a little heavy-handed with Tim, but I felt like it got across how each of the Robins viewed the identity and what they got out of it, and how that relates to Tim.

Is people's issue with Damian and Tim's interactions that they're cordial towards each other? Because you can tell there's a lot of bitterness between the two in-spite of that, and timeline-wise I think Damian had softened on Tim by then, especially if this was around the time of Tynion's 'Tec.

It was just nice to see the Super Sons, in their best forms, together again one last time. And a story that exhibits all of Damian's most positive traits. Plus, Jon in a glasses, suit, and tie was actually pretty nice.

I appreciated the last story purely on the level of Bruce finally trying to be a good dad for Damian and make up for all the times he ignored Damian. I think the story got to the main issue in the father-son duo's relationship even as they showcase how much of an effective Dynamic Duo they can be. Hopefully it's not too late for this relationship.

Agreed on the Supersons story.

Disagree on Tim being the only one who chose to be Robin

All the Robins choose to be Robin didn't they? They all wanted to help .
Steph was used but she was already trying to help. think.

Carrie and Tim sort out Batman yeah but that doesn't change they fact that they all chose to be Robin/help

I think the difference with Tim is that he actively sought out being Robin when Batman really needed it instead of being offered the job/position.

I forget with Damian his exact attitude toward the Robin identity. He thought Tim was an usurper and he wanted to be with his father, but I don't think he wanted to be Robin until Dick gave it to him.

These range friom great to good to downright disrespecful.

Dick had the best storeis. Jason's one story was a gem.
The Supersons story about the supersons nothing to do with Robin which was exactly what I predicted it would be.
Damian's second story was about hima s a son not as Robin. The story was an emotional Gut punch but it had nothing to do with Damian as Robin.

Steph's was Funny.
Tim's ... well I guess now we know why Poor Carrie doesn't get a story.
You can't write a story about what makes Tim stand out if you write a story of Carrie.

You can't tell lies about Tim's uniqueness. About Tim's smartness, about Tim actively going after the role of Robin you can't lie about Tim's character or place in the Pantheon on Robins if you include the the Ginger haired Hair who did it all first Years before Tim Drake ever was imagined.

We didn't get a Carrie Story in order to main the Lie which is that Tim Drake Is an original a concept which is diabolical and disgraceful.
The original 3rd Robin redefined the role of Robin. Carrie was the was the 1st Modern Robin impressing Batman with her smarts and tech skills. She should have been honoured with t least one story.

I guess they wanted to limit it to the main in-sequence Robins, continuity-wise.

To be honest I think it's a miracle they included Steph at all.

[millernumber1]

I knew the Grayson story couldn't resist getting Dick shirtless. So, Dick and that ape...did something happen ?

The Steph story made me think that she could've been a really great Robin if writers had actually committed to her. Although you can kind of tell they're working off the idea that Bruce was just using Steph as a means of getting Tim back in the suit with how little thought he seem to put into Steph as Robin. Like, he just assumes she'll be comfortable wearing suits designed for boys? And while I liked Bruce giving Steph her own changing area...shouldn't there be specific changing areas in the Batcave already? I guess they're not meant to be co-ed since it's usually just Bruce and the male Robin, but still. It kind of came off like Bruce is not used to working with girls but continuity-wise Babs and Cass had both probably been in the cave frequently by then.

To be honest I think it's a miracle they included Steph at all.

I mean, this is Tom King and Tim Seeley...so I wouldn't rule it out, but that's not what I took from it.

During Cass's run as Batgirl, she had her own cave. Or at least one. And Babs as Batgirl hasn't seemed to really have a ton of time in the cave. And she didn't need to change costumes as Oracle.

I think it's a very nice miracle.

[Aahz]

It kind of came off like Bruce is not used to working with girls but continuity-wise Babs and Cass had both probably been in the cave frequently by then.

Barbara never really operated out of the cave regularly. For Cass it was at least usually not her main basis of operation, and I don't think she would really care.

Is people's issue with Damian and Tim's interactions that they're cordial towards each other? Because you can tell there's a lot of bitterness between the two in-spite of that, and timeline-wise I think Damian had softened on Tim by then, especially if this was around the time of Tynion's 'Tec.

I don't think Tim would ask Damian for advice, and I don't think that Damian is particularly good at giving advice.

[millernumber1]

For Cass it was at least usually not her main basis of operation, and I don't think she would really care.

You have an excellent point. Cass "does not care about scars or robes or towels to get a glass from the fridge" would not care.

[Frontier]

During Cass's run as Batgirl, she had her own cave. Or at least one. And Babs as Batgirl hasn't seemed to really have a ton of time in the cave. And she didn't need to change costumes as Oracle.

Barbara never really operated out of the cave regularly. For Cass it was at least usually not her main basis of operation, and I don't think she would really care.

It's always been kind of vague to me how the dynamic worked with Post-Crisis Babs as Batgirl after Year One. It seemed to me like she would've operated out of the cave, but maybe not.

Cass probably wouldn't care, although I think Bruce would.

I don't think Tim would ask Damian for advice, and I don't think that Damian is particularly good at giving advice.

By that same logic, I don't think Tim would go to Jason for advice, but I think he was just going out of his way to talk to each of his predecessors. Damian's advice came off like the kind of advice Damian would give, brusque and to the point.

[millernumber1]

It's always been kind of vague to me how the dynamic worked with Post-Crisis Babs as Batgirl after Year One. It seemed to me like she would've operated out of the cave, but maybe not.

Cass probably wouldn't care, although I think Bruce would.

I think Babs would care more than Bruce, actually.

Year One seems to imply that while Babs would use the cave, she was pretty independent, and almost certainly had her own bases of operations, similar to Tim's Robin Nests.

[Zaresh]

By that same logic, I don't think Tim would go to Jason for advice, but I think he was just going out of his way to talk to each of his predecessors. Damian's advice came off like the kind of advice Damian would give, brusque and to the point.

Tim has a history of being partial to Jason and going for him even when he really shouldn't, when he was way less friendly (or friendly at all). It's not unprecedented.

[millernumber1]

Tim has a history of being partial to Jason and going for him even when he really shouldn't, when he was way less friendly (or friendly at all). It's not unprecedented.

This would be post Batman and Robin Eternal, when Tim and Jason bonded quite a bit.

[Zaresh]

This would be post Batman and Robin Eternal, when Tim and Jason bonded quite a bit.

Then it shouldn't be really out of character, I think, that he were to ask Jason something, more even when it's about Bruce. Dick should be the obvious choice, but Jason shouldn't be far-fetched.

In my opinion.
Him going to ask isn't the same as him taking the advice to heart though. It's Tim: as far as I know, he does what he things is the best answer to something, however others think about the matter.

[dietrich]

This is probably the best tribute to the Robin identity and those who have held it that DC has done in years, especially compared to past few attempts. I think each story did a good job of finding the core of the character, how they relate to the identity of Robin and what it meant to them, as well as conveying what is so important about Robin .

I'm glad this wasn't a special that vilified Batman. Even in the stories where he seems to be hard or demanding of Robin, it has a purpose and there was always a silver lining at the end of the story. I was worried for a second with the Wolfman and Grayson story, but they turned it around.

The Titans storyline did feel a little randomly put in there, since it was mostly just Darhk commenting on how incompetent HIVE is in relation to the Titans. I get it was trying to convey how great a leader Dick is, which is an important facet of the character, but still. I did find it amusing how there was a token female HIVE goon in there, and seeing the Post-Crisis Titans at their best was nice.

I knew the Grayson story couldn't resist getting Dick shirtless. So, Dick and that ape...did something happen ?

I found it funny how the Red Hood story didn't even have Jason wearing his red hood. But I do think it got to the core of Jason and Bruce's relationship quite well.

The Steph story made me think that she could've been a really great Robin if writers had actually committed to her. Although you can kind of tell they're working off the idea that Bruce was just using Steph as a means of getting Tim back in the suit with how little thought he seem to put into Steph as Robin. Like, he just assumes she'll be comfortable wearing suits designed for boys? And while I liked Bruce giving Steph her own changing area...shouldn't there be specific changing areas in the Batcave already? I guess they're not meant to be co-ed since it's usually just Bruce and the male Robin, but still. It kind of came off like Bruce is not used to working with girls but continuity-wise Babs and Cass had both probably been in the cave frequently by then.

The Tynion Tim story was overly wordy and maybe a little heavy-handed with Tim, but I felt like it got across how each of the Robins viewed the identity and what they got out of it, and how that relates to Tim.

Is people's issue with Damian and Tim's interactions that they're cordial towards each other? Because you can tell there's a lot of bitterness between the two in-spite of that, and timeline-wise I think Damian had softened on Tim by then, especially if this was around the time of Tynion's 'Tec.

It was just nice to see the Super Sons, in their best forms, together again one last time. And a story that exhibits all of Damian's most positive traits. Plus, Jon in a glasses, suit, and tie was actually pretty nice.

I appreciated the last story purely on the level of Bruce finally trying to be a good dad for Damian and make up for all the times he ignored Damian. I think the story got to the main issue in the father-son duo's relationship even as they showcase how much of an effective Dynamic Duo they can be. Hopefully it's not too late for this relationship.

I think the difference with Tim is that he actively sought out being Robin when Batman really needed it instead of being offered the job/position.

I forget with Damian his exact attitude toward the Robin identity. He thought Tim was an usurper and he wanted to be with his father, but I don't think he wanted to be Robin until Dick gave it to him.

I guess they wanted to limit it to the main in-sequence Robins, continuity-wise.

To be honest I think it's a miracle they included Steph at all.

Tim going to Damian is odd just as Tim going to Jason. Tec and BRE is hand waving and trying to stitch on a relationship or a dynamic that isn't there.

These two tried to kill Tim and a different Tim just tried to kill Damian and his pal. One panel in Tec isn't enough to sell this.

On Robin. Damian wanted to be close to his father and he wanted to help. After he was sent back he came back on his own and was working as a hero before he met up with the family and before he became Robin.

If they wanted to limit the stories to the main Robins then Why have Steph?
A token?
Diversity?
Then use the female Robin who has actually made a difference. Whose impact is still be felt today in the form of Drake.

Steph brought nothing to Robin.

Carrie aside from being a female is the place where every single thing that makes Tim unique comes from
interviewing for the job
Batman needs Robin
Figuring out the Bats id
having parents and juggling Robin with a normal life everything
Robin who saves batman rather than the other way

Carrie changed and added so much to Robin and never gets the credit for those additions that she brought. This special really pissed me off [yes a lot of it is down to my bias. Carrie is my 2nd favourite Robin ]

Why advertise Carrie if you weren't going to acknowledge what she brought to the mantle or even give her a story?
I paid for this comic and I enjoyed it but it also infuriates me.

[millernumber1]

Tim going to Damian is odd just as Tim going to Jason. Tec and BRE is hand waving and trying to stitch on a relationship or a dynamic that isn't there.

These two tried to kill Tim and a different Tim just tried to kill Damian and his pal. One panel in Tec isn't enough to sell this.

It's hardly just Tec and Batman and Robin Eternal. Lobdell also featured Tim and Jason having an improving relationship in Red Hood/Arsenal. And it wasn't just one panel in Batman and Robin Eternal - it was at least 4 issues of consistent development.

[Dataweaver]

I do wish they had done a Carrie story — except that Frank Miller would have written it, and he's gone off the rails. That, and Carrie is explicitly part of a different timeline: the Dark Knight setting, where Bruce recruited Dick by kidnapping him and trying to force him to eat rats. No wonder Dick ended up becoming the new Joker. Fortunately, if Miller had penned a Carrie story for this, it would have had to be set before she abandoned the Robin identity and started calling herself Catgirl. I do think that a version of Carrie could have been incorporated into the mainstream DCU (and I'm not referring to the one who appeared during the Grief storyline in the wake of Damian's death); but that ship has sailed: she could have been introduced as a sort of “younger sister” Robin to Terry McGinnis' Batman. But they decided to go with having Matt become Robin.

One nitpick: the extent of Carrie juggling Robin with a normal life in Dark Knight Returns amounted to one scene where Alfred picked Carrie up from school; and there's no indication that she ever went back. In effect, her appearance in the junkyard was her audition for the role; Alfred picking her up from school was his acceptance of her. Having parents? Technically, yes; but they were the ultimate absentee parents: you never saw her interact with them even once; she walked away from them without even looking back; and the last time you hear them (because you never see them), it becomes abundantly clear threat they've almost completely forgotten that Carrie even exists. Dick had more contact with his parents than Carrie did.

While Tim and Carrie hit several of the same notes, Tim isn't a knock-off of Carrie. For every point of similarity you can find, I can find a difference. For instance, Tim didn't seek to become Robin; he sought to get Dick and Bruce back together. He only became Robin at Dick's insistence — though that differentiates him from most of the other Robins in that he wasn't driven to become Robin by a tragedy. He's different from every other Robin in that he had a functional family life during most of his time as Robin, until Didio decreed that they needed to be killed off to make him more edgy.

Frankly, we don't need to be bashing any Robin. All of them have their own points of interest (though in Stephanie's case, she didn't get a chance to come into her own until long after her time as Robin).

[Dataweaver]

It's hardly just Tec and Batman and Robin Eternal. Lobdell also featured Tim and Jason having an improving relationship in Red Hood/Arsenal. And it wasn't just one panel in Batman and Robin Eternal - it was at least 4 issues of consistent development.

True enough. That said, it was very much a Lobdell thing: prior to the New 52, the Jason/Tim dynamic was downright hostile, even moreso than the Tim/Damian dynamic.