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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Making fun of the expectations of reactionaries may be low hanging fruit, but this is the world we live in now. Some people literally make a living pretending to be outraged that "SJWs" have "ruined" some aspect of nerd culture.
    Don't forget your "friend" who is not trying to turn that into a war among black nerds and creators over them defending the book.


    Apparently, his online presence has completely flat-lined over the intense response to his "creations". Huh, can't find his anywhere. So strange.
    He is on Twitter and still posting. In fact noting about the Warriors has been posted since March 17.

  2. #62
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    One of the funniest concepts and I always try to not throw out ones not so named or mentioned due to time...


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    -



    Back in the 1990's DC was very busy throwing a lot of events out. A number of them was shaking things up by changing the long established mantles characters had and revamping them for a new era. For every Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern or Jack Knight as Starman ...there was Jared Stevens as Fate.

    The idea was one that DC took dormant characters like Starman , Manhunter and Dr. Fate and used Zero Hour to revamp them all. Starman and Dr. Fate had long been characters involved in the Justice Society of America in various comics from the 1940's to 1990's. The characters of Ted Knight and Kent & Inza Nelson had managed with the others to defy aging with spells and powers they had. This lasted until 1994 when Zero Hour removed the JSA finally by having them all get aged out nearly and forced into retirement.

    Enter Jared Stevens who was a more 90's grim era Dr. Fate. Stevens was a treasure hunter who was hired by the Nelsons to retrieve the helmet from Egypt so they could become Dr. Fate again . Instead during an attack the Nelsons were killed and Stevens somehow got boned with the objects becoming a Rob Zombie version of Fate.

    The character was universally panned by nearly everyone for how bad it looked and the book ran 23 issues. DC not wanting to admit the entire Fate thing was pretty stupid tried to make it work by having the character appear in other books as well as doing a 2nd series called "Book of Fate". It ran 12 issues ending in 1998. Finally 5 years after the change to this DC threw in the towel and had Stevens killed in the 1st issue of JSA in 1999. The character would later go back to his classic look and the whole Stevens era was mentioned only a couple times in JSA.






    A lot of people have joked about the various stupid Punisher ideas Marvel has floated the last couple decades. But one of the silliest moments actually happened in 1993. But we have to look back at some things about this period for why they ran this storyline.

    In the mid 1980's as TV and media started to really catch on with anti-heroes Marvel finally released a Punisher miniseries. The popularity of The Punisher exploded and Marvel quickly approved a regular series. This made them approve a number of other spin-off titles due to how popular the Punisher character had became. By 1992 the Punisher had 4 monthly titles (Punisher Armory was basically a quarterly title detailing his weapons...I shit you not) , various mini-series and one shots and a number of appearances in other books. By then Marvel had pretty much over done the character and his popularity was waning.

    Over at DC the company was doing events and one of them was Death of Superman and then Reign of the Superman through 1992/1993. This had exploded sales for the 4 monthly Superman titles as fans raced to pick up and follow all 4 of these characters claiming to be Superman. Its here Marvel really doomed the Punisher books. They decided if Reign of Supermen worked and sales exploded for Superman group books then they could give the 3 Punisher monthlies the same juice.

    The storyline began in December 1993 and began with Frank Castle deciding to blow up a building with a group of mob bosses inside. But he ends up being caught in the building and appears to have died. Soon enough we get the black UK Punisher (Outlaw who appeared 2 years earlier in an arc) , a yuppie Punisher and finally Lynn Michaels (who took Punisher mantle awhile) appear. All ready to take Castle's mantle.

    Finally at the end Frank returns as its revealed was wounded pretty badly and nursed back to health. He would soon take back his mantle and go on as Punisher ending the Suicide Run arc.

    Unlike Reign of the Supermen this arc did little for the Punisher group titles and after limping another 2 years they all would be cancelled. Marvel realizing they had over exposed the character with too many titles. Even today the character barely can support a monthly title.
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  3. #63
    Ceiling Belkar stabs you GozertheGozarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    Frog Thor, Spider-Ham, Bat-Mice and so on...

    Really, that's not funny.
    Next you'll say you hate Cap-Wolf too.
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  4. #64
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    One of the funniest concepts and I always try to not throw out ones not so named or mentioned due to time...


    -

    -



    Back in the 1990's DC was very busy throwing a lot of events out. A number of them was shaking things up by changing the long established mantles characters had and revamping them for a new era. For every Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern or Jack Knight as Starman ...there was Jared Stevens as Fate.

    The idea was one that DC took dormant characters like Starman , Manhunter and Dr. Fate and used Zero Hour to revamp them all. Starman and Dr. Fate had long been characters involved in the Justice Society of America in various comics from the 1940's to 1990's. The characters of Ted Knight and Kent & Inza Nelson had managed with the others to defy aging with spells and powers they had. This lasted until 1994 when Zero Hour removed the JSA finally by having them all get aged out nearly and forced into retirement.

    Enter Jared Stevens who was a more 90's grim era Dr. Fate. Stevens was a treasure hunter who was hired by the Nelsons to retrieve the helmet from Egypt so they could become Dr. Fate again . Instead during an attack the Nelsons were killed and Stevens somehow got boned with the objects becoming a Rob Zombie version of Fate.

    The character was universally panned by nearly everyone for how bad it looked and the book ran 23 issues. DC not wanting to admit the entire Fate thing was pretty stupid tried to make it work by having the character appear in other books as well as doing a 2nd series called "Book of Fate". It ran 12 issues ending in 1998. Finally 5 years after the change to this DC threw in the towel and had Stevens killed in the 1st issue of JSA in 1999. The character would later go back to his classic look and the whole Stevens era was mentioned only a couple times in JSA.






    A lot of people have joked about the various stupid Punisher ideas Marvel has floated the last couple decades. But one of the silliest moments actually happened in 1993. But we have to look back at some things about this period for why they ran this storyline.

    In the mid 1980's as TV and media started to really catch on with anti-heroes Marvel finally released a Punisher miniseries. The popularity of The Punisher exploded and Marvel quickly approved a regular series. This made them approve a number of other spin-off titles due to how popular the Punisher character had became. By 1992 the Punisher had 4 monthly titles (Punisher Armory was basically a quarterly title detailing his weapons...I shit you not) , various mini-series and one shots and a number of appearances in other books. By then Marvel had pretty much over done the character and his popularity was waning.

    Over at DC the company was doing events and one of them was Death of Superman and then Reign of the Superman through 1992/1993. This had exploded sales for the 4 monthly Superman titles as fans raced to pick up and follow all 4 of these characters claiming to be Superman. Its here Marvel really doomed the Punisher books. They decided if Reign of Supermen worked and sales exploded for Superman group books then they could give the 3 Punisher monthlies the same juice.

    The storyline began in December 1993 and began with Frank Castle deciding to blow up a building with a group of mob bosses inside. But he ends up being caught in the building and appears to have died. Soon enough we get the black UK Punisher (Outlaw who appeared 2 years earlier in an arc) , a yuppie Punisher and finally Lynn Michaels (who took Punisher mantle awhile) appear. All ready to take Castle's mantle.

    Finally at the end Frank returns as its revealed was wounded pretty badly and nursed back to health. He would soon take back his mantle and go on as Punisher ending the Suicide Run arc.

    Unlike Reign of the Supermen this arc did little for the Punisher group titles and after limping another 2 years they all would be cancelled. Marvel realizing they had over exposed the character with too many titles. Even today the character barely can support a monthly title.
    The biggest issue with "Fate" is that his costume is hideously busy.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GozertheGozarian View Post
    Next you'll say you hate Cap-Wolf too.
    ...or even the X-Animals?

    Last edited by K7P5V; 03-26-2020 at 02:18 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post

    Wolfman didn't think it made Slade evil for some reason.
    Cause it was a given that Slade was already evil?

    I can't remember the issue number and I hope I'm not remembering it wrong, but they did do a follow up story. It was the trial of the Terminater or something and at some point Changeling has a fight with Slade but they end it with a rather calm discussion. Gar asks Slade something like, "Did you really sleep with Terra?" And Slade replies something like, "Is that the most important thing here?"

    Implying. "I kill people for money, I've committed multiple acts of treason, I've attempted to murder you and your friends various times, but what makes you mad is that I slept with a crazy girl you had a crush on."
    Last edited by ed2962; 03-26-2020 at 04:43 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Cause it was a given that Slade was already evil?
    Because Wolfman didn't think Slade was a villain at all. He basically tried to make the entire Judas Contract mess Terra's fault even though killing the Titans was Slade's idea to begin with. Then he tried to retroactively make that true with that issue where Slade and Gar talked about Terra and how evil she was with a story about how Terra once killed an African man who just happened to be friends with both Gar and Slade. However, there were some holes in this;

    1) We only have the word of any of this being true from Deathstroke the Terminator, one of the least trustworthy people in the DC universe.

    2) he same time Slade says this, he also says something demonstrably false, that Terra hated everyone, starting with her heroic brother, Geo-Force from the Outsiders. But in the TT/Outsiders Crossover where they reunited for the first time after joining their respective teams, she was openly affectionate to her brother, which she never was to the Titans. She even thought to herself that she didn't want her brother to go down with the Titans when she betrayed them, which means that her open affection wasn't an act.

    3) Aside from this one uncorroborated (and never mentioned again) story from Slade, nothing else in her background suggests that Terra had ever been to Africa.

    4) If Slade is telling the truth then he's actually making himself look worse here. Slade said that he was offered money to kill the African guy, but refused because he was "a friend of his". If Terra killing him is true, then Slade hired and slept with the girl he knew damn well murdered his friend!

    The entire story was an ugly mess that hasn't aged well and there is a reason why every adaptation of this story indisputably and unambiguously makes Slade the bad guy while Terra is at worst a young girl who was led down a dark path by an abusive and manipulative adult while still not letting her off the hook for her crimes.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 03-30-2020 at 12:39 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Don't forget your "friend" who is not trying to turn that into a war among black nerds and creators over them defending the book.

    He is on Twitter and still posting. In fact noting about the Warriors has been posted since March 17.
    Oh, the irony in that person calling anyone "self-hating"...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Because Wolfman didn't think Slade was a villain at all. He basically tried to make the entire Judas Contract mess Terra's fault even though killing the Titans was Slade's idea to begin with. Then he tried to retroactively make that true with that issue where Slade and Gar talked about Terra and how evil she was with a story about how Terra once killed an African man who just happened to be friends with both Gar and Slade. However, there were some holes in this;

    1) We only have the word of any of this being true from Deathstroke the Terminator, one of the least trustworthy people in the DC universe.

    2) he same time Slade says this, he also says something demonstrably false, that Terra hated everyone, starting with her heroic brother, Geo-Force from the Outsiders. But in the TT/Outsiders Crossover where they reunited for the first time after joining their respective teams, she was openly affectionate to her brother, which she never was to the Titans. She even thought to herself that she didn't want her brother to go down with the Titans when she betrayed them, which means that her open affection wasn't an act.

    3) Aside from this one uncorroborated (and never mentioned again) story from Slade, nothing else in her background suggests that Terra had ever been to Africa.

    4) If Slade is telling the truth then he's actually making himself look worse here. Slade said that he was offered money to kill the African guy, but refused because he was "a friend of his". If Terra killing him is true, then Slade hired and slept with the girl he knew damn well murdered his friend!

    The entire story was an ugly mess that hasn't aged well and there is a reason why every adaptation of this story makes indisputably and unambiguously makes Slade the bad guy while Terra is at worst a young girl who was led down a dark path by an abusive and manipulative adult while still not letting her off the hook for her crimes.
    Everything you said is true ( as far as I remember), but the whole point to Terra's character was that they weren't going to do what readers expected and redeem her somehow. They introduced her as evil, and they left her as evil.

  10. #70
    Paranoid Android ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Cause it was a given that Slade was already evil?

    I can't remember the issue number and I hope I'm not remembering it wrong, but they did do a follow up story. It was the trial of the Terminater or something and at some point Changeling has a fight with Slade but they end it with a rather calm discussion. Gar asks Slade something like, "Did you really sleep with Terra?" And Slade replies something like, "Is that the most important thing here?"

    Implying. "I kill people for money, I've committed multiple acts of treason, I've attempted to murder you and your friends various times, but what makes you mad is that I slept with a crazy girl you had a crush on."
    Now, we would consider the bold part to be: "...I groomed and sexually molested a minor over whom I was obviously exercising psychological control."
    People recently condemned Roy Moore for doing this very thing, and rightly so.
    The fact that people would be expected to interpret that this makes Terra more of a villain points out how fucked-up our norms were then and, to some extent still are.
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  11. #71
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    Now, we would consider the bold part to be: "...I groomed and sexually molested a minor over whom I was obviously exercising psychological control."
    People recently condemned Roy Moore for doing this very thing, and rightly so.
    The fact that people would be expected to interpret that this makes Terra more of a villain points out how fucked-up our norms were then and, to some extent still are.
    I mean I agree with you. I cant believe how somewhat common this has been in comics.

    Xavier crushing hard on his student Jean (I dont know if she was over age but the fact she was taking High School courses I have my doubts.

    Reed Richards having to move out of Sue Storms aunt's house because she was a distraction to him.

    the above mentioned Slade and Terra.


    There is also a flash back scene in the Manga Battle Royale where one of the girls I forget which one but it was the really badass girl remembers being molest by her step father. it was pretty detailed. As a survivor of sexual abuse I had a very hard time reading that. It put me into a server depression for many days as I had my own flashbacks. I read a few issues after that but it really killed my enjoyment and dont know if I will get back to it as much as I loved it before that.

    And I dont remember any outrage at the time. And the fact that the writers thought this was a good idea baffles me.
    Last edited by babyblob; 03-26-2020 at 01:12 PM.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    Now, we would consider the bold part to be: "...I groomed and sexually molested a minor over whom I was obviously exercising psychological control."
    People recently condemned Roy Moore for doing this very thing, and rightly so.
    The fact that people would be expected to interpret that this makes Terra more of a villain points out how fucked-up our norms were then and, to some extent still are.
    You're not wrong, but I think the lying, and murder is what made her a villain. The "sluttiness" was to demonstrate the depths of her lying and manipulation. I'm not saying it couldn't have been done without that scene, I'm saying that's why I think Wolfman put it there.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I mean I agree with you. I cant believe how somewhat common this has been in comics.

    Xavier crushing hard on his student Jean (I dont know if she was over age but the fact she was taking High School courses I have my doubts.

    Reed Richards having to move out of Sue Storms aunt's house because she was a distraction to him.

    the above mentioned Slade and Terra.


    There is also a flash back scene in the Manga Battle Royale where one of the girls I forget which one but it was the really badass girl remembers being molest by her step father. it was pretty detailed. As a survivor of sexual abuse I had a very hard time reading that. It put me into a server depression for many days as I had my own flashbacks. I read a few issues after that but it really killed my enjoyment and dont know if I will get back to it as much as I loved it before that.

    And I dont remember any outrage at the time. And the fact that the writers thought this was a good idea baffles me.
    In the first issue of X-Men from 1963, it's stated that Ice Man is 16 and a couple of years younger than the others, so it's reasonable to infer that Jean was around 18. But yeah, that line...supposedly Stan was asked about it later and he said, "Yeah, I don't know what I was doing. I just threw it in there to mix things up."

    I'm pretty sure that Matt Fraction ret-conned the Reed/Sue thing so that they were closer in age when Reed was living with Sue's family. Matt was like, Some of those old scenes as written just don't fly in modern times.

  14. #74
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    In the first issue of X-Men from 1963, it's stated that Ice Man is 16 and a couple of years younger than the others, so it's reasonable to infer that Jean was around 18. But yeah, that line...supposedly Stan was asked about it later and he said, "Yeah, I don't know what I was doing. I just threw it in there to mix things up."

    I'm pretty sure that Matt Fraction ret-conned the Reed/Sue thing so that they were closer in age when Reed was living with Sue's family. Matt was like, Some of those old scenes as written just don't fly in modern times.
    I am glad to hear that. Makes it less creepy.
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  15. #75
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    Speaking of Jean Grey...another bad idea was when they brought her back, deciding that the person who appeared in X-Men #101-137 wasn't really Jean but a cosmic entity that thought it was Jean.

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