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  1. #226
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Secret Wars, 2015. Made Battleworld to protect everyone, including mutants. It was a horrible world to satisfy his ego, what's magneto done on that scale to save humanity?

    https://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/...20154-p.14.jpg
    LMAOO you read Secret Wars and thought: “yeah dooms not doing anything wrong at all.”

    He did more for mutantkind by helping establish Krakoa. Name what Doom did for mutantkind during that event and remember, you aren’t saving someone if you’re just gonna force them to serve you as a god moments later.


  2. #227
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    I’m still recovering from the denial that Doom wasn’t part of the FF when he quite literally was.

  3. #228
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I stand by the fact that if Charles and Erik weren't so arrogant, and Reed and Sue weren't so damn overprotective this all could have been solved with a phonecall, and a tour of Krakoa. Both sides fucked it up.
    Thank you for being one of the only rational posters in this thread. Seriously, itís like a taboo around here for anyone to declare that maybe, just maybe the X-Men arenít sacred cows who are holier than thou. Both sides are especially in the wrong to being fighting right now when they know that Doom of all people has their people. Hell, Xavierís words last issue of saying that the F4 have to be shown how the world is now pretty much shows how screwed his priorities are in that heíd rather flex his muscle than solving the problem at hand. At this point, what is anything that either side is currently doing helping to get Franklin, Valeria and Kittyís team back from Doom? Nothing but wasting valuable time.

  4. #229
    Astonishing Member bell's Avatar
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    This x jerks making Cyke stand up in the plane while they enjoy a nice sited ride is injusted..... This seems to be the only thing i care about right now....

    He could sit in Emma's........

  5. #230
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    It's relevant when you are calling inferior living beings to a family with those capacities. If someone has called the x-men scum after they just saved their planet I also would have called him ridiculous, as I'm calling Magneto.



    NO, it's NOT HIS CHOICE, is still his parent choice until he groups up, he is just 13 a mere boy, a hormonal, impulsive and not that smart boy, he is taking a decision only based in his desire of getting his powers back and don't seeing the consequences of his actions, and in that context in Reed ungrateful and criticized job to make him stop and rethink his actions before committing a mistake. He is like literally a boy wanting to enter a CULT guided by know racist, terrorist and killers just because they promised him help and he is in his ebeld phase. YOU CAN'T LET A 13 years old do whatever he wants just assuming that is "his right", because they are still young and don't have enough information to take a conscious decision and they tend to act on impulse more than on sense. Nobody is taking away Franklin right to think if something he has been allowed to travel across the galaxy and face wonders no other human has been. They are just giving him time to think instead to allow him run blindly into false promises. If something Franklin is happy, protected and is growing at a sane rate, there is no need to rush things just to please the child murders, let's just remember that Magneto and Xavier also had sons who now hates them because they were shitty parents who turn boys in CHILD SOLDIERS.

    Franklin DON'T EVEN WANT TO VISIT KRAKATOA FOR SOME GENETIC SENTIMENT, he is not a "proud mutant" because he never has faced discrimination or insolation about his status, he wanted to go Krakoa to fix his powers something that the mutants offered enve when they don't know if they really can do and they don't need kidnap him to do it. They are lying about being able to fix him just to get him and be able to manipulate him.



    The moment when they hang on with those mutants supremacist, and laugh at their racist jokes, and go along with their racist discourses, then they are being racist themselves.
    You have given a long list about mutants who are called themselves "superior race" and the alarming stuff is that all them are into the COUNCIL so THAT'S EXACTLY THE EDUCATION WHO ARE GIVEN TO THE NEW GENERATIONS, they are creating a racist society who put themselves as the superior race and see the humanity as inferior, something totally opposite at what the X-men were supposed to be. So yes, there is a reason why humans are not allowed in Krakoa, RACISM.

    Even Xavier is becoming one, putting the lives of mutants above the humans since he grants full perdon from killers ignoring anything humans has to say, since for him they are no worth of attention. And considered himself entitled to take control of any mutant child without care of the opinion of his human family, and he is supposed to be an example to follow.



    Give them time, they already has armored ships, defense systems and a strike team to make "preventive attacks". Yes, they have faced dangers before and every time I have supported them, and I was one of those who qualified the M-pox as basically making the planet into a giant gas chamber, but I can't support them right now.

    I' don't pretend them to "lie down like dogs" but I don't consider neither becoming racist piece of S#% as something to cheer, they are just proving that humans had actually right to be afraid of the because once they felt safe and confident they become so racist, supremacist and dismissive as those humans who hunted them, proving that at the end they were basically the same. Yes, they were shitty humans who hated them but also were nice ones who help and protect them and they discriminate all them. Many X-men has been part of other heroic teams and how they get their powers was never discussed, damn some of them were even worshiped, so NO they weren't ALWAYS discriminated.
    At this point it’s not worth responding. If you cannot understand that the boy was stripped of a choice I don’t know what to tell you. And after reading the rest of your long winded post (which isn’t needed) I’ll be repeating myself.
    MUTANT and PROUD
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  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    LMAOO you read Secret Wars and thought: ďyeah dooms not doing anything wrong at all.Ē
    I called him a monster and said Battleworld was terrible in how he did it. Did you want Doom to just let reality die, right then and there instead? Difficult to have Krakatoa without a reality to put in it. Can you say the same for Magneto or Krakatoa having problematic issues, which is an understatement?

    He did more for mutantkind by helping establish Krakoa. Name what Doom did for mutantkind during that event and remember, you arenít saving someone if youíre just gonna force them to serve you as a god moments later.

    Krakatoa is a small nation, Doom saved entire worlds in Secret Wars. Which included mutants.

    Remember when Magneto did this?

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7r8Cv1_hm...BProtocols.jpg

    What do you think the ramifications would be had he done this act on our Earth?

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    LMAOO you read Secret Wars and thought: “yeah dooms not doing anything wrong at all.”
    I called him a monster and said Battleworld was terrible in how he did it. Did you want Doom to just let reality die, right then and there instead? Difficult to have Krakatoa without a reality to put in it. Can you say the same for Magneto or Krakatoa having problematic issues, which is an understatement?

    He did more for mutantkind by helping establish Krakoa. Name what Doom did for mutantkind during that event and remember, you aren’t saving someone if you’re just gonna force them to serve you as a god moments later.

    Krakatoa is a small nation, Doom saved the entire worlds in Secret Wars. Which included mutants.

    Remember when Magneto did this?

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7r8Cv1_hm...BProtocols.jpg

    or this?

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...33fb3a7d2abdf9

  8. #233
    Spectacular Member Coatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    At this point itís not worth responding. If you cannot understand that the boy was stripped of a choice I donít know what to tell you. And after reading the rest of your long winded post (which isnít needed) Iíll be repeating myself.
    If you can't understand that is the duty of the parents take care of the children and protect them of those who want to manipulate them for their own goals, those who lie to them in your face, those who want to put then against their parents; that at 13 years old a boy is not old enough to just decide after two minutes, leave his home against their parent wishes to integrate a racist cult directed by murders, mad scientifics, manipulators and know supremacists, to become a soldier boy or a test subject. I frankly don't want to read you anyway.

    If there is something that I can't stand is a racist cult and honestly that what the X-men had become right now.
    "And you eater of world. May you taste our righteous fire, And choke on it. For my planet's sake, I spit my last breath at thee"

  9. #234
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    If you can't understand that is the duty of the parents take care of the children and protect them of those who want to manipulate them for their own goals, those who lie to them in your face, those who want to put then against their parents; that at 13 years old a boy is not old enough to just decide after two minutes, leave his home against their parent wishes to integrate a racist cult directed by murders, mad scientifics, manipulators and know supremacists, to become a soldier boy or a test subject. I frankly don't want to read you anyway.

    If there is something that I can't stand is a racist cult and honestly that what the X-men had become right now.
    The Fact Sue and Ben Grimm literally criticized Reed for taking away Franklins right to decide on his own shows that you are wrong. If you can’t understand that as I said again I don’t know what to tell you. Your making Big Assumptions on behalf of the X-Men believing they have some sinister plan for Franklin when Dr. Doom clearly has something up his sleeve. All the X-Men(Pro. X and Magneto) are showing concern as to why is Franklins powers depleting. The X-men as a whole are not racist as a whole they are not Supremacist. You have not proven one person in Krakoa other than Magneto who is a racist and Supremacist, Mr. Sinister the only Mad Scientist. Let’s not use the actions and beliefs of 1 or 2 mutants to determine that all of the Mutants believe the same thing, because clearly none of the main stay X-Men don’t even share Magnetos beliefs. If you feel like they are then I guess maybe don’t read the X-Men? I don’t know what to tell ya.

    The X-Men are not a racist cult. If they were the laws they made about killing no human wouldn’t even be considered as a law.
    Last edited by stormphoenix; 03-21-2020 at 01:00 AM.
    MUTANT and PROUD
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  10. #235
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I called him a monster and said Battleworld was terrible in how he did it. Did you want Doom to just let reality die, right then and there instead? Difficult to have Krakatoa without a reality to put in it. Can you say the same for Magneto or Krakatoa having problematic issues, which is an understatement?
    Doom saving reality doesn’t mean he’s exempt from criticism. Mutants weren’t living any better because of Doom. That’s not how this works. No one is praising Doom as an ally for trans people because he saves worlds that included trans people because that makes no sense at all.

    Krakatoa is a small nation, Doom saved the entire worlds in Secret Wars. Which included mutants.

    Remember when Magneto did this?

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7r8Cv1_hm...BProtocols.jpg

    or this?

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...33fb3a7d2abdf9
    Krakoa is a nation where mutants are thriving in their own space, are immortal, and building their own culture and community with each other. That’s more beneficial that having to live under the thumb of an actual dictator, not just whatever definition of the day that gets crafted up to complain about Krakoa.

  11. #236
    Extraordinary Member stormphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post


    Krakoa is a nation where mutants are thriving in their own space, are immortal, and building their own culture and community with each other. That’s more beneficial that having to live under the thumb of an actual dictator, not just whatever definition of the day that gets crafted up to complain about Krakoa.
    Hmmm that doesn’t sound like a Racist Cult to me. Sounds like a regular ol country to me.
    MUTANT and PROUD
    #KRAKOA FOREVER

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  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Doom saving reality doesn’t mean he’s exempt from criticism. Mutants weren’t living any better because of Doom. That’s not how this works. No one is praising Doom as an ally for trans people because he saves worlds that included trans people because that makes no sense at all.
    It certainly doesn't, yet that privilege is being given over to Magneto...because he's from Krakatoa? I didn't say it was a good place to live, the claim was that he saved everybody from going extinct. Magneto is protecting mutants in Marvel and nobody else.



    Krakoa is a nation where mutants are thriving in their own space, are immortal, and building their own culture and community with each other. That’s more beneficial that having to live under the thumb of an actual dictator, not just whatever definition of the day that gets crafted up to complain about Krakoa.
    Deflection. We were speaking about Magneto's character and I gave you example of him like you did with Doom. Am I supposed to pretend everything he did before Krakatoa doesn't count? He has a long, exhaustive history of being a monster.

    Your argument omits the problematic aspects to Krakatoa, how do you expect humanity to react the they learn about the Crucible or how influential Sinister, Apocalypse and other villains are in the government? Humanity didn't force the X-men to let those villains do that, that's on Xavier and co.

  13. #238
    Spectacular Member Coatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormphoenix View Post
    The Fact Sue and Ben Grimm literally criticized Reed for taking away Franklins right to decide on his own shows that you are wrong. If you canít understand that as I said again I donít know what to tell you. Your making Big Assumptions on behalf of the X-Men believing they have some sinister plan for Franklin when Dr. Doom clearly has something up his sleeve. All the X-Men(Pro. X and Magneto) are showing concern as to why is Franklins powers depleting. The X-men as a whole are not racist as a whole they are not Supremacist. You have not proven one person in Krakoa other than Magneto who is a racist and Supremacist, Mr. Sinister the only Mad Scientist. Letís not use the actions and beliefs of 1 or 2 mutants to determine that all of the Mutants believe the same thing, because clearly none of the main stay X-Men donít even share Magnetos beliefs. If you feel like they are then I guess maybe donít read the X-Men? I donít know what to tell ya.

    The X-Men are not a racist cult. If they were the laws they made about killing no human wouldnít even be considered as a law.
    They installed that law because they see human as weaker and pitiable (told by Jean herself), and because big masacres would lead to an open war, not for their strong love for humanity.

    Yes, of course Dr Doom would be the main concern and most surely at the end of the next issue would become the main enemy, that is something I never doubt, but that doesn't erase that what the X-men are doing right now IS WRONG.

    Charles is infamous to make child soldiers (and sometimes getting them dead) and both Magneto and Charles had reality warpers offspring who hate them because they were mistreated. While ocasional overprotection apart, Franklin had a happy life and is the sanest reality warper. In this specific case they are playing Franklin to go to Krakoa promising something they can't provide and their are ignoring his parent opinion because their are humans.

    What leads at point that they are making effectively a supremacist cult. An there is not "only Magneto" (even if he is the most vocal), we have Apocalipse, we have Sinister, we have Mystic, damn like 2/3 of the council easily, while the rest keeps silent to those comments, not even once I have seen anyone talking against the supremacist ideals. Even Prof X is promoting that behavior with pearls like "We are the rightful owners of the earth humans are just being allowed to use it by now" and some of the X-man are also making that kind of comments. So I'm not talking about the actions of one but they general behaviour. Specially the council, their are the ones who determine the behavior of the population and the ones who determine the education that are getting the children there, so that's the formation the new generation of mutants will get. And It's sad.

    For ages the X-men were about how being different doesn't make you less, that something different could be scary but that at the end we are all humans, and that we are all the same on a basic level. About learning to live together and respect each other. So, yes seeing them jumping to the other extreme and declaring themselves "the rightful owners of the planet" and "the best species" and labeling the human of inferior, is supremacist. And isolating themselves making their own rules system, feeling themselves above human laws, denying the access of humans to their land just because are humans, demonize some figueres (like the Scarlet Witch) and controlling who and when people can get out makes them a cult.

    I'm scared to think what is going to happen when a normal human refuse to surrender their children or if a mutant couple has a basic human child.
    "And you eater of world. May you taste our righteous fire, And choke on it. For my planet's sake, I spit my last breath at thee"

  14. #239
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It certainly doesn't, yet that privilege is being given over to Magneto...because he's from Krakatoa? I didn't say it was a good place to live, the claim was that he saved everybody from going extinct. Magneto is protecting mutants in Marvel and nobody else.
    Oh, well I had misread. Since you kept mentioning mutants, I thought you were talking about who was better for mutantkind. In the case of humanity, I wouldn’t say either is necessarily better than the other. Krakoa has already saved Earth once in Fallen Angels, though.

    Deflection. We were speaking about Magneto's character and I gave you example of him like you did with Doom. Am I supposed to pretend everything he did before Krakatoa doesn't count? He has a long, exhaustive history of being a monster.

    Your argument omits the problematic aspects to Krakatoa, how do you expect humanity to react the they learn about the Crucible or how influential Sinister, Apocalypse and other villains are in the government? Humanity didn't force the X-men to let those villains do that, that's on Xavier and co.
    It’s not deflection. I’m talking about Magneto’s allegiance to mutantkind and why he’s doing what he’s doing. My argument is addressing the entire reason Crucible exists. The only way, right now, depowered mutants can be repowered is if they die and are reborn. Krakoa isn’t the X-Men, it’s about all mutants. This clearly isn’t about letting •-[A]-• Jill people, it’s about empowering the depowered mutants by having them confront their problems around being powerless in the form of a sword fight before the Five revive them.

  15. #240
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Reed being Franklin's father does not give him license to perform experimental medical procedures on his son without knowledge or consent. At the very least that alone is cause to have him lose custody, or possibly even be jailed. Is Reed even a medical doctor as opposed to a doctor of science?

    If some kid whose family I know ran to me saying that his parents were forcing him into, say, gay conversion therapy I might try to get him away too (albeit to the authorities rather than my own country), since in most states that sort of thing is a crime.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

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