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  1. #616
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I find it ironic that Doom gave white guy Charles some of their own medicine with that little speech. People tend to forget that Doom is a Roma, a very oppressed RW minority, as opposed to an imaginary one like the mutants.
    Whenever you speak to actual roma, they will tell you that the maniac tyrant with a cursed witch mother and a cursed face really isnt the representation you think it is.
    If doom got his own medicine hed be 6 feet under with mommy dearest
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-24-2020 at 07:36 PM.

  2. #617
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    the arena is for badasses, those two get shifted here:
    That arena was tainted by Cable, now even Glob is a worthy contender.

  3. #618
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    Y'all need to stop sleeping on Super Weenie Hut Jr's! Also half the Mofo's out there need to be taking they asses over to Wenie Hut General to get treatment.

  4. #619
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    Whenever you speak to actual roma, they will tell you that the maniac tyrant with a cursed witch mother and a cursed face really isnt the representation you think it is
    Is anything in comics? So have you talked to an actual mutant too?

    For sure it's Doom origin is very comic booky but it was shown that his tribe were outcasts everywhere they went in Europe. It is my suspicion that Jack Kirby, who served in the infantry in General Patton's battalion had a lot to do with Doom's origin. I read an interview where he talks about being an advance scout serving in General Pattion's battalion and coming across some of the smaller concentration camps and seeing first hand what was done to the Jews and other minorities. Stan and Jack always wrote added an element of tragedy to Doom. Later Claremont would take that same template and slap it on Magneto. John Byrne even called him out on that (not that I agree with all of his thoughts)

  5. #620
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    That arena was tainted by Cable, now even Glob is a worthy contender.
    I’m so down for Franklin vs. Wiccan.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  6. #621
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    I dont see how doom is speech is revolutionary. Doom is just speaking for himself in a "i dont need you attitude"

    For me their whole trade deal is problematic, giving every mutant diplomatic inmunity and a backdoor to yout country is just a mess waiting to happen.

    I understand that this is not free, they are giving them drugs but this presents another problem, Krakoa wants you to buy their junk but they dont want yours. They are the worst trading partner ever, in normal conditions they would make a lot of people jobless.

    The surprise is that only Wakanda and Latveria apparently have brains.

    Dont get me wrong, is not evil what they are doing but is the weirdest way of "buying" their place.

    It can lead to a shit ton of problems.
    Last edited by Lapsus; 03-24-2020 at 08:01 PM.

  7. #622
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I’m so down for Franklin vs. Wiccan.
    The false god is beaten with one sentence.

  8. #623
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    Y'all the fact that Sinister has not popped up once yet is concerning, if he doesn't steal the false gods Gene's within the next 2 issues that means were not done with this storyline after the mini is over!

  9. #624
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    The false god is beaten with one sentence.
    Why are you calling Franklin a false god? He's still a kid and has no pretensions of being one.

  10. #625
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    I dont see how doom is speech is revolutionary. Doom is just speaking for himself in a "i dont need you attitude"

    For me their whole trade deal is problematic, giving every mutant diplomatic inmunity and a backdoor to yout country is just a mess waiting to happen.

    I understand that this is not free, they are giving them drugs but this presents another problem, Krakoa wants you to buy their junk but they dont want yours. They are the worst trading partner ever, in normal conditions they would make a lot of people jobless.

    The surprise is that only Wakanda and Latveria apparently have brains.

    Dont get me wrong, is not evil what they are doing but is the weirdest way of "buying" their place.

    It can lead to a shit ton of problems.
    Agreed I think this is an example of when comic logic doesnīt translate well when itīs using real world exmaples, under normal circunstances, it would be a billateral agreetment to benefit both parties, that would be the only way most countries would accept as they would not agree with a zero sum game agreetment that only benefices Krakoa and I guess thatīs why Charles is going on around the world making comercial deals. It would be interesting to see this other side because that also brings some interesting consequences, like you get new competition you didnīt thought out at first.


    Wakanda is advanced enough to have their own version of the flower same with Latveria thatīs when it would be interesting to see something else being developed by Krakoa apart from the flowers in this circunstances Genosha was opened to the world and while it didnīt have miracle flowers it did have some interesting foreing relations with Lemuria, Wakanda and Atlantis but this was explored just on the Black Panther title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden
    Is anything in comics? So have you talked to an actual mutant too?

    For sure it's Doom origin is very comic booky but it was shown that his tribe were outcasts everywhere they went in Europe. It is my suspicion that Jack Kirby, who served in the infantry in General Patton's battalion had a lot to do with Doom's origin. I read an interview where he talks about being an advance scout serving in General Pattion's battalion and coming across some of the smaller concentration camps and seeing first hand what was done to the Jews and other minorities. Stan and Jack always wrote added an element of tragedy to Doom. Later Claremont would take that same template and slap it on Magneto. John Byrne even called him out on that (not that I agree with all of his thoughts)
    Claremont was also jewish and lived for while on Israel before going to Long Island where he grew up, he has talked about his mother being an inspiration for some of his work so that explains both his style of writting where he developed the women and gave them a little more agency and even leadership positions compared to other comics of the era but also his wish to develop Magneto as a Jewish man who survived the holocaust and lived on Israel for a while. I didnīt notice it before but silver age magneto had an idea of having a place just for mutants since day one, Claremont went from there to develop a deeper reason than "world conquest" for this and worked really well for the character at the time.

    I think Dr Doom and Magneto as representatives of minorities in a time when most characters were from the US was a good idea marvel had at the time, it allowed for stories that questioned the status quo and made an initiative to make "villains" more well rounded characters and not just cardboard people who were just there to be beaten by the hero in turn.

    But also both of them are different enough that you can appreciate them on their own imo thatīs why I have always wanted them to be explored interacting more, they have the potential of having an ideological and mental fight similar to the one Xavier and Magneto used to have and in their case given both their actions and past there would be no need for Magneto to go into tirades of how "saintly Xavier is compared to him" They would approach each other on an equal footing and given their pride they are fun characters to see having a discussion.



    What I love of this scene is Magneto didnīt go into the traditional super hero reaction of: Doom you betrayed us how could you? but he did ask questions like he isnīt even surprised Doom is acting like this itīs just such a fun and interesting interaction of two people that know their dark side quite well.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-24-2020 at 08:53 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  11. #626
    Incredible Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Did somebody say false god?

    28C99001-445B-4061-AD7E-720D2349E178.jpg
    Last edited by ARkadelphia; 03-24-2020 at 08:43 PM.
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  12. #627

  13. #628
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    Did somebody say false god?

    28C99001-445B-4061-AD7E-720D2349E178.jpg
    Yeah thatīs my least favourite, well more like most disliked recent magneto image, given his usual conflict with being a mutant has always been about being called a monster and the fact he said that on Israel of all places was just a very poor choice made by Hickman imo and in very poor taste for the Jewish fans that like Magneto. After that I was ready to accept Xavier was the maker and was using his telepathic power to control the X-men and Magneto but then I thought that would be too easy and Hickman likes to develop a larger story.

    I liked much more this little story by Cullen Bunn about Magneto Jewishess. The funny thing is that both scenes happened just months ago in marvel time.

    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-24-2020 at 09:04 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  14. #629
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    You think doom has any morale to speak on anyone and you have admited before you don't care abou the x-men, I very much don't care and the fact this title is under non x-men editorial tells me no one in the x-office does either.
    A fall from grace would require mutants to have any left in the eyes of the remaining superhero community, thye havent ever since utopia when they stoped taking any crap
    Yas! YAS! YAAAAAAAAS!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I find it ironic that Doom gave white guy Charles some of their own medicine with that little speech. People tend to forget that Doom is a Roma, a very oppressed RW minority, as opposed to an imaginary one like the mutants.
    Latveria isn't real tho

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    The false god is beaten with one sentence.
    Hmm ya know what? this post is Kiiiinda weird/funny I've noticed a few folks use 'Tge falseGod' when referring to Franklin for some reason buuuuut when Magneto Queenly says something in the same line he's a genocidal racist
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #630
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed I think this is an example of when comic logic doesnīt translate well when itīs using real world exmaples, under normal circunstances, it would be a billateral agreetment to benefit both parties, that would be the only way most countries would accept as they would not agree with a zero sum game agreetment that only benefices Krakoa and I guess thatīs why Charles is going on around the world making comercial deals. It would be interesting to see this other side because that also brings some interesting consequences, like you get new competition you didnīt thought out at first.


    Wakanda is advanced enough to have their own version of the flower same with Latveria thatīs when it would be interesting to see something else being developed by Krakoa apart from the flowers in this circunstances Genosha was opened to the world and while it didnīt have miracle flowers it did have some interesting foreing relations with Lemuria, Wakanda and Atlantis but this was explored just on the Black Panther title.



    Claremont was also jewish and lived for while on Israel before going to Long Island where he grew up, he has talked about his mother being an inspiration for some of his work so that explains both his style of writting where he developed the women and gave them a little more agency and even leadership positions compared to other comics of the era but also his wish to develop Magneto as a Jewish man who survived the holocaust and lived on Israel for a while. I didnīt notice it before but silver age magneto had an idea of having a place just for mutants since day one, Claremont went from there to develop a deeper reason than "world conquest" for this and worked really well for the character at the time.

    I think Dr Doom and Magneto as representatives of minorities in a time when most characters were from the US was a good idea marvel had at the time, it allowed for stories that questioned the status quo and made an initiative to make "villains" more well rounded characters and not just cardboard people who were just there to be beaten by the hero in turn.

    But also both of them are different enough that you can appreciate them on their own imo thatīs why I have always wanted them to be explored interacting more, they have the potential of having an ideological and mental fight similar to the one Xavier and Magneto used to have and in their case given both their actions and past there would be no need for Magneto to go into tirades of how "saintly Xavier is compared to him" They would approach each other on an equal footing and given their pride they are fun characters to have a discussion.



    What I love of this scene is Magneto didnīt go into the traditional super hero reaction of: Doom you betrayed us prepare to die but he did ask questions like he isnīt even surprised Doom is acting like this.
    Didn't know that about Claremont so that is interesting. But you have to admit he did steal a bit from Doom. For example, the prior connection to the hero. We see right off that Doom and Reed attended the same university together, along with Ben. Claremont added the prior friendship with Charles who for years would be a major adversary. Prior to that the only character Charles had a prior connection to was Cain Marko. Also of course revealing the Jewish heritage was a much later reveal whereas we know Victor is a Roma from way back in FF annual #2. He does give things an added twist when they do become friends and colleagues, something Victor would never do with Reed at least not the way he is currently written. Although he did sort of begin to reconcile with the FF and was sort of babysitting Ben and Johnny when he had undertaken the role of Infamous Iron Man. But then Slott pretty much trashed that idea. Now I have to admit that when Claremont did get a chance to write Doom, he's always done a fairly consistent as depicting him as a villain who sometimes can slip into the ant-hero territory.

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