X-Men + Fantastic Four #3 Preview Pages

[zinderel]

This is exaggerated drama because this is comic books. If this were written like the X-men were trustworthy there wouldn't be an argument and Kitty would regularly talk to Franklin about his heritage any time he likes. Instead she kidnapped him. Does this sound like behaviour the X-men do before Krakatoa? I don't think so. Kitty isn't perfect but she's not a kidnapper and the writers are too good at this for this not to be going somewhere shady.

"Karen" is a sexist insult, and it's disappointing to hear that on this forum. We're supposed to be progressives.

First, Kate didn’t kidnap anyone. Valeria - a human, not one of those eeeeeeeeeevul mutant kidnappers with imaginary sinister intent - figured out how to get her and Franklin onto the Marauder. Kate was shocked and NOT happy to see them, but they’re there now, and Kate wants to be there for a friend. Which Franklin IS. He’s 13 - 15 now, but Kate has met him as a child, a man, and now a teen and is having to navigate confusing, melodramatic comic book drama. So why is she a villain for letting her long-time, aged, de-aged, re-aged friend Franklin decide for himself what he wants, while Sue and Reed are ‘good parents’ for calling their son’s people ‘creeps’ for showing concern for their son’s ‘sickness’? What is heroic about that? Or any of the other thinly veiled insults they’ve lobbed this whole crossover? What is heroic about trying their level best to keep their teenage son from growing up and making his own choices about what he wants out of life? How is that good parenting? All that is going to do is drive him RIGHT into the arms of the very people Reed and Sue are so suddenly hateful towards...

Also,‘Karen’ is sexist? That’s a new defense for Sue’s behavior. I assume you have never worked in service and had to actually DEAL with a Karen. There are male Karen’s too, it’s just that most of them are over-privileged white women with unreasonable demands they feel entitled to make. So I guess it’s also racist, now, right...? Like when people of color roll their eyes say ‘white people’, right...?

*eyeroll*

[Steel Inquisitor]

First, Kate didn’t kidnap anyone. Valeria a human - figured out how to get her and Franklin onto the Marauder. Kate was shocked and NOT happy to see them, but they’re there now, and wants to be there for a friend. Which Franklin IS. He’s 13 - 15, now, but Kate has met him as a child, a man, and now a teen and is having to navigate confusing, melodramatic comic book drama. So why is she a villain for letti BG Franklin decide for himself what he wants and Sue and Reed are ‘good parents’ for calling their son’s people ‘creeps’ and other thinly veiled insults while trying their level best to keep him from growing up and making his own choices?

It was a planned kidnapping from the start, and she played her part perfectly. Kidnapping isn't limited to physical force, she manipulated him. Get the parents distracted with Magneto, take Franklin outside while they're busy, fly to a Kraktoa portal, put him in a position where he has to choose to do it while maintaining a position that saying no would warrant disapproval from someone he trusts. He didn't get to Krakatoa by accident.

Which is what she exploited, she had no authority to take him to another country. They last time they met was years back, this is their second time they met. She's not his best friend who he's known all his life.

Kidnapping does fall under villainous acts, they're not saving a mutant child abducted by Orchis here.

His parents aren't keeping from doing anything they're not legally supposed to. They're his legal guardians and biological parents. Krakatoa isn't owed anything here, Franklin's not even a citizen of they country. They have no legal jurisdiction over Franklin.

Would you not be stressed if a suspicious government came calling and the first thing they did was bring a world renowned terrorist who blatantly trie to indoctrinate your son in your presence that you're inferior since you're not the same race as he is? That's what Magneto did to the Richards, and the X-men backed him.

Edit: In this situation it's not a regular human terrorist, it's someone who's demolished entire teams of X-men by himself.

Also,‘Karen’ is sexist? That’s a new defense for Sue’s behavior. I assume you have never worked in service and had to actually DEAL with a Karen. There are male Karen’s too, it’s just that most of them are over-privileged white women with unreasonable demands they feel entitled to make. So I guess it’s also racist, now, right...? Like when people of color roll their eyes say ‘white people’, right...?

*eyeroll*

That people like that exist don't make it not a sexist insult, you're not calling her that because you like that she's doing.

[zinderel]

It was a planned kidnapping from the start, and she played her part perfectly. Kidnapping isn't limited to physical force, she manipulated him. Get the parents distracted with Magneto, take Franklin outside while they're busy, fly to a Kraktoa portal, put him in a position where he has to choose to do it while maintaining a position that saying no would warrant disapproval from someone he trusts. He didn't get to Krakatoa by accident.

Which is what she exploited, she had no authority to take him to another country. They last time they met was years back, this is their second time they met. She's not his best friend who he's known all his life.

Kidnapping does fall under villainous acts, they're not saving a mutant child abducted by Orchis here.

His parents aren't keeping from doing anything they're not legally supposed to. They're his legal guardians and biological parents. Krakatoa isn't owed anything here, Franklin's not even a citizen of they country. They have no legal jurisdiction over Franklin.

Would you not be stressed if a suspicious government came calling and the first thing they did was bring a world renowned terrorist who blatantly trie to indoctrinate your son in your presence that you're inferior since you're not the same race as he is? That's what Magneto did to the Richards, and the X-men backed him.



That people like that exist don't make it not a sexist insult, you're not calling her that because you like that she's doing.

I dunno what I would do. I DO know that I wouldn’t invade a sovereign nation founded by people I know and trust and have had a good relationship with in the past BEFORE my teenage son started showing an interest in their culture. Nor would I assailt from stealth one of its leaders in the SEAT OF THE NATIONS POWER, and then act shocked that the nation defenses are arrayed against me, now...

Because I’m reasonable, and not an entitled white lady who wants to speak to Krakoa’s managers RIGHT NOW or ELSE...

[Steel Inquisitor]

I dunno what I would do.

Sure you do, we all know how we'd react in that situation.

I DO know that I wouldn’t invade a sovereign nation founded by people I know and trust and have had a good relationship with in the past BEFORE my teenage son started showing an interest in their culture. Nor would I assailt from stealth one of its leaders in the SEAT OF THE NATIONS POWER, and then act shocked that the nation defenses are arrayed against me, now...

This is super-hero comics, every super-hero would do that for their children. Including the X-men, you think had the American government done this to Kitty Pryde they'd just shrug their shoulders and relax? No. They'd go to war.

Because I’m reasonable, and not an entitled white lady who wants to speak to Krakoa’s managers RIGHT NOW...

She's entitled for wanting her children safe? She didn't lose them, the X-men took her children to Krakatoa against her consent.

[zinderel]

Sure you do, we all know how we'd react in that situation.



This is super-hero comics, every super-hero would do that for their children. Including the X-men, you think had the American government done this to Kitty Pryde they'd just shrug their shoulders and relax? No. They'd go to war.



She's entitled for wanting her children safe? She didn't lose them, the X-men took her children to Krakatoa against her consent.

*shrug* Obviously, we’re reading different comics. Or we’re coming at the same story from different enough perspectives we’ll never agree. So there’s not much point in going around and around.

Ta.

[Killerbee911]

She's entitled for wanting her children safe? She didn't lose them, the X-men took her children to Krakatoa against her consent.

Please reread the actual comic, Her children snuck on to Kate ship. The X-men didn't take her children to Krakoa. That is flat out misrepresentation of what happened.

What actually happened they sneak on Kate ship and Dr Doom kidnapped them and took them his island. And if Dr Doom didn't kidnapped them, Kitty would have turn around send them back.

[zinderel]

Please read the actually comic, Her children sneak on to Kate ship. The X-men didn't take her children to Krakoa. That is flat out lie.

What actually happened they sneak on Kate ship and Dr Doom kidnapped them and took them his island. And if Dr Doom didn't kidnapped them, Kitty would have turn around send them back.

Exactly. And, unlike any OTHER adult in the story, she is actually interested in what FRANKLIN wants, rather than trying to impose her own wishes - or anyone else’s - on him...

[Coatl]

I dunno what I would do. I DO know that I wouldnÂ’t invade a sovereign nation founded by people I know and trust and have had a good relationship with in the past BEFORE my teenage son started showing an interest in their culture. Nor would I assailt from stealth one of its leaders in the SEAT OF THE NATIONS POWER, and then act shocked that the nation defenses are arrayed against me, now...

Because IÂ’m reasonable, and not an entitled white lady who wants to speak to KrakoaÂ’s managers RIGHT NOW or ELSE...

I like how people keep trying to use the "sovereign nation" as argument as the X-men were actually earned their place, they bribed (Xavier and his drugs), then menaced (Magneto giving his superiority discourse and plainly attacking) and finally brainwashed people into accept them as a nation. There isn't a lot to be proud there.

The teenage son didn't show interest in the culture, Franklin only interest is getting his powers back something the X-men promised even when they are not actually able to do. They are just interesting in Franklin powers even if getting them means passing over the human parents, because they are humans and that makes unworthy of raising a mutant, even when have been doing actually a better job at it that anyone in the council.

The leader of the "nation" is a know supremacist, racist who has tried to kidnap their son before and insulted them a few hour ago, so I'm not complaining about him being punched, yes they were acordly attacked after that but persecuting them OUT of their country isn't also right since then are the X-men who are going out of jurisdiction. They had right to shot at them into Krakoa land, not outside, they are supposed to be members of the ONU, ho, right, they don't care about "silly human laws". But still marks a double standard complaining about being invaded when a) they are going into other countries doing their attacks at whim and b) they are right now invading another country and no one is going to comply if they are going to "rescue mutants".

Who takes me to the wonderful double standard seeing how Susan Storm is labeled as "Karen" for not wanting his son being kidnapped for a supremacist cult managed by renown criminals, but seen the X-men entering actually recognized countries and taking away criminals without regards of those countries laws and dismissing anyone else concern because they don't care about human laws and only allow mutants being judged by mutants is treated as something positive.

Let's stop pretending that the mutants are not becoming a supremacist cult, because they are. Also the argument "not all the x-men" has no weight since if you are into the ku klux klan, participating in their reunions and laughing at their jokes you are racist even when you are not making said jokes.

[Killerbee911]

Let's stop pretending that the mutants are not becoming a supremacist cult, because they are. Also the argument "not all the x-men" has no weight since if you are into the ku klux klan, participating in their reunions and laughing at their jokes you are racist even when you are not making said jokes.

What book are you reading seriously?

[Coatl]

What book are you reading seriously?

One filling with characters who keeps talking how the mutants are better than humans, how humans laws doesn't matter to them, how the worst criminals are granted full forgiveness because they don't care about crimes committed in a human world, one where a kid is attempted to be taken away of their parents because no matter how good they have been and how good the child is, they are filthy humans unworthy of raising a mutant son.

And many people seems ok with it.

[Veitha]

One filling with characters who keeps talking how the mutants are better than humans, how humans laws doesn't matter to them, how the worst criminals are granted full forgiveness because they don't care about crimes committed in a human world, one where a kid is attempted to be taken away of their parents because no matter how good they have been and how good the child is, they are filthy humans unworthy of raising a mutant son.

And many people seems ok with it.

So you are reading a different book in your head?

[Coatl]

So you are reading a different book in your head?

I'm reading the X-men/fantastic four event without the "yes, let's excuse the x-men blatant racism because they have suffered a lot, and try to pin the blame in others".

I love the X-men and I have been her supporter for ages, In general I like them more than the F4, I supported them in A/X, I/X even in CHC but like a character or group should not blind you of seeing when they make mistakes. Plotting to take away a child from a loving parents just because he is a mutant and they are humans is wrong in many levels and I'm not going to excuse it.

[Veitha]

I'm reading the X-men/fantastic four event without the "yes, let's excuse the x-men blatant racism because they have suffered a lot, and try to pin the blame in others".

I love the X-men and I have been her supporter for ages, In general I like them more than the F4, I supported them in A/X, I/X even in CHC but like a character or group should not blind you of seeing when they make mistakes. Plotting to take away a child from a loving parents just because he is a mutant and they are humans is wrong in many levels and I'm not going to excuse it.

Xavier said they're going to help him regain his powers and they want to understand what's happening to him so that it won't happen to other mutants. This is no different than the usual "Come to the Xavier School" pitch that's been happening for years, except for Magneto talking smack like Magneto would do. The FF escalated the situation and invaded a country.

[Coatl]

Xavier said they're going to help him regain his powers and they want to understand what's happening to him so that it won't happen to other mutants. This is no different than the usual "Come to the Xavier School" pitch that's been happening for years, except for Magneto talking smack like Magneto would do. The FF escalated the situation and invaded a country.

It's totally different.

There is not the OLD Xavier who wanted integration and understanding and put a friendly front to inspire confidence. The new has made clear his new posture, he is the lead of a supremacist cult and feels entitled to take possession of Franklin because he is mutant and useful to him.

The old Xavier would have went alone or with a very few companions who were in good terms with the F4. The new want picked a big group as force demonstration and let the talking to the most racist of them to promote conflict, while sending a manipulative third wave to offer the kid a "third way".

The old Xavier would have been respectful of the parents wishes since they love and procure his son maybe he would try to bribe his way with false promises (he has no idea of how to deal with Franklin power lost) but would have respected their parent at end. The new one is clear about how human opinion doesn't matter to him.

The old Xavier would have been a bit understanding about the worries of a mother who thinks that her son has been kidnapped and try to calm her. While the new one organizes a chasing team out of the country into a human soul to punish them because they have to "Show them how will be the things now"

The old Xavier would have been smart enough to understand that he needs allies. The new one is uncaring about how stupid is throw supremacist discourses, make veil menaces and attack those who other way would have supported him.

If the old Xavier were interested in Franklin situation he could have sent Beast or anyone like him to help Richards (one of the most brilliant minds in the world and who surely knows more about his own son) since Richards has already useful data and investigations and surely the best lab. New one, try to take the boy away of his home and dismisses Richards.

As I said the "Invaded country" lost a lot of weight when a) they get the country status by bullying and mind rape b) they themselves get out of their jurisdiction shooting people outside their country and invade themselves other countries to get access to mutants and get away with it. Seems that for him frontiers only matter if are theirs.

So NOT THE SAME AT ALL.

[stormphoenix]

Please reread the actual comic, Her children snuck on to Kate ship. The X-men didn't take her children to Krakoa. That is flat out misrepresentation of what happened.

What actually happened they sneak on Kate ship and Dr Doom kidnapped them and took them his island. And if Dr Doom didn't kidnapped them, Kitty would have turn around send them back.

You can’t possibly believe the X-Men wanted to kidnap Franklin or even call them racists. When the X-men have not shown any reason to prove that is a fact. And using Franklin being on the boat with Kitty is a terrible example.

Lol that has to be their own Headcannon.