Mjolnir: Has it Reached the Point Now Where TOO Many People Have Lifted it?

[kilderkin]

Loki picked it up just recently, in Thor #4.

I thought he just missed out?

[Flash Gordon]

Nobody should be able to lift it 'cept Thor.

[JudicatorPrime]

Not really 3 of those characters aren't even in the same universe, then you said 1 one picked up the ult Thor's hammer so that don't count either. Once you factor in the 0 gravity ones and Throg then it becomes a non issue.

I have to say the zero gravity feats are all crap and then some. There's such a thing as mass. One of the ongoing speculations about Mjolnir is that it may be some type of supermassive black hole at its core. If so, zero gravity or not, no one is lifting Mjolnir just because you're in space. Doubly true if the enchantment is somehow linked to the mass of that theoretical black hole.

I also noticed that they've moved away from the original specifications for Mjolnir that its base weight was a few thousand pounds. This separate from the black hole mass aspect that I mention above. You had to be superhumanly strong just to lift the uru mallet, enchantment aside, or so I thought. In theory everything in Asgard should weigh more than what it does on Earth, but that's another discussion for another time.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

DC crossovers are gimmicks imo so I'll skip. Them, but only Diana was truly worthy, Odin lent superman the hammer, he couldn't lift it later

He was still briefly able to wield it and even Thor, in that scene afterward, basically called him worthy. But not only that, but he also was able to feel Thor's power surging through him, which if I'm understanding you right is a sign of his worthiness:



But this is beside the point. The point is that I think that, aside from Thor, almost nobody should be able to wield it. Captain America, Beta Ray Bill, and Jane Foster? Okay. Superman and Wonder Woman? Okay. Again, they're from another universe, so they're not going to be wielding it on the regular anyway. But aside from that, nobody. Not Loki, not Silver Surfer, not Red Hulk (even in zero gravity). Maybe not even Storm, even though I love her and it makes sense. But, the more people who wield it, the less special it is. And enough people have wielded it that its become not that special anymore.

[Matrik]

When Hydra Cap lifts mjolinir and convinces Thor to join his Avengers to slaughter aliens the concept has been pretty much broken.20200322095802.jpg

[JudicatorPrime]

I find it odd that people still think an unwillingness to kill is a criteria for worthiness, or that some kind of higher moral component is built into the enchantment. By Odin's sense of morality, killing is perfectly fine. He gave Thor the hammer so that he could do just that against all of Asgard's enemies, whether we're talking Frost Giants, Surtur's daemons, or whomever. In the myths even Berserker Thor -- who in his mad, war-wracked frenzy was apt to kill friend and foe alike -- was nevertheless still worthy of Mjolnir. By Odin's designs, that was all well and good.

[Alan2099]

I find it odd that people still think an unwillingness to kill is a criteria for worthiness, or that some kind of higher moral component is built into the enchantment. By Odin's sense of morality, killing is perfectly fine. He gave Thor the hammer so that he could do just that against all of Asgard's enemies, whether we're talking Frost Giants, Surtur's daemons, or whomever. In the myths even Berserker Thor -- who in his mad, war-wracked frenzy was apt to kill friend and foe alike -- was nevertheless still worthy of Mjolnir. By Odin's designs, that was all well and good.

I've always thought a willingness to kill would have been one of the requirements for lifting it.
Not an eagerness to kill mind you, but you have to have a warriors mindset to be worthy and that means that sometimes you have to put your enemy down for good.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I find it odd that people still think an unwillingness to kill is a criteria for worthiness, or that some kind of higher moral component is built into the enchantment. By Odin's sense of morality, killing is perfectly fine. He gave Thor the hammer so that he could do just that against all of Asgard's enemies, whether we're talking Frost Giants, Surtur's daemons, or whomever. In the myths even Berserker Thor -- who in his mad, war-wracked frenzy was apt to kill friend and foe alike -- was nevertheless still worthy of Mjolnir. By Odin's designs, that was all well and good.

I've always thought a willingness to kill would have been one of the requirements for lifting it.
Not an eagerness to kill mind you, but you have to have a warriors mindset to be worthy and that means that sometimes you have to put your enemy down for good.

I think you're misunderstanding the conversation. There were people arguing that anybody who wielded Mjolnir would have to be willing to kill, except some of those who have wielded Mjolnir in the past were actually characters who had sworn against killing. I don't think a character has to be unwilling to kill to pick up Mjolnir, but at the same time, I don't think one has to be willing to kill to pick it up either.

[Jabare]

the whole worthy concept was kind of nebulous to begin with

Not like can really explain it, this was just an interesting concept. Thor's been aorund a while. You can make an argument that many of the heroes who aren't morally compromised should be able to lift it, but then by the same token we don't know because no one really has any idea including a lot of the writers you can do with it what you want.

I don't think this is something to dwell on or get bent out of shape. The hammer's still tied to Thor ultimately.

[stormphoenix]

So, I recently saw the article on CBR about how Carol Danvers just joined the ever-growing list of people, other than Thor, who have lifted Mjolnir and I have to admit that it's gotten to be a big club. Let's review:

• Beta Ray Bill: the famous "first case" from Thor #337
• Captain America (Steve Rogers): has long been established as being able to lift Mjolnir, but most recently seen doing so in Secret Empire (and of course, Avengers: Endgame)
• Thunderstrike
• Awesome Andy
• Ultimate Magneto (it was the Ultimate universe, but still)
• Red Hulk: I mean, traditionally a supervillain and, albeit, he did so when the hammer was in zero gravity, but...should that matter for an enchanted hammer
• Conan
• Bor
• Storm: lifted Mjolnir in Uncanny X-Men Annual #9
• Throg
• Jane Foster: famously replaced Odinson as Thor for a few years
• Volstagg: became the War Thor after lifting Ultimate Thor's hammer
• Silver Surfer: as seen in Donny Cates's Thanos series where the Silver Surfer has become worthy and now wields Mjolnir to fight Thanos
• Carol Danvers: the most recent addition, albeit only able to do so because of Thor's DNA (but again, should that be able to fool an enchanted hammer)
  
  And of course, let's not forget:
  
  
• Wonder Woman: wielded the hammer in the Marvel vs. DC crossover and then again in JLA/Avengers
• Superman: also wielded Mjolnir in JLA/Avengers.

So, you see what I mean? I think, for some reason, every time some writer wants to make a character seem cool, they just HAVE to have them be seen lifting Thor's hammer. Now, Captain America, I get. Jane Foster's tenure as Thor was pretty great, IMO (I know some hated it, but whatever). Storm is also one that I get. Beta Ray Bill basically only exists because he's someone else who can wield Mjolnir. I also really like the fact that Superman and Wonder Woman can wield it because it has that cross-universe appeal and it's not like they'll be doing so on a regular basis.

However, some of these seem a bit...unnecessary? I mean, did Silver Surfer really need to be added to this list? Weren't there other ways to fight Thanos? Did Carol Danvers? I mean, there are other powerful artifacts in the MU to use. Is it really worth it to inject yourself with Thor's DNA when you could have easily just grabbed an Infinity Gauntlet (because apparently they grow on trees now) or the Ebony Blade or the Nega Bands (hey, remember those things?). I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the entire roster of the Fantastic Four, Peter Parker, Wolverine, Miles Morales, Dr. Doom, and Rick Jones all lifting Mjolnir within...two years. I don't know. What do you think?

This "Worthy" concept is starting to become like the Phoenix Force EVERYONE is becoming the Phoenix now. In the Classic Days only the chosen can Host the Pheonix Force. The same thing for Mjolnir NOW everyone can either hold it get close to holding it ETC.

IMO these people do not count due to the context that happened Such As:
Ultimate Magneto
Red Hulk
Conan
Carol Danvers
Wonder Woman
Superman

IMO: Storm is a strange case. Only because Thor was still holding the Hammer while Storm who seemingly overpowered him just to destroy her own Hammer Stromcaster. It's a sticky situation there. I don't think Jane should have picked up the Hammer, but she was a Good Thor IMO.

IDK: I don't know about Bor, Silver Surfer. I don't know Thunderstrike.

I think Volstagg is worthy.

[Sutekh]

ANext 11. He works for The Doom of that world who rules the Earth. He is part of the team battling Captain America's resistance movement. I have seen other issues of Avengers and other comics where the heroes go to an alternate universe and find a Villain version of Thor and he still has the hammer.

Similarly, Thor gets mindcontrolled by the Red Skull, or altered by a spell by Kulan Gath or Morgana le Fay and becomes their ruthless enforcer, and the hammer still works fine. It's recently been suggested that the hammer is constantly judging Thor and he could 'become unworthy' but this is never the way it's worked in the past. It was a one-time thing, and once worthy, it seemed one was always worthy, for many years, but now, in theory, worthiness is being constantly assessed, and, IMO, if that was the case, it should be dropping from Thor's hand (or Jane's hand, whomever), whenever they lose their temper or use it in an intemperate or 'unworthy' manner (such as, say, when Jane was using it to clobber Odin, who was the actual decider of worthiness, back in the day!).

It's just inconsistent, and not every writer wants to deal with the nonsense of the hammer choosing to work or not work panel to panel.