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  1. #76
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I'm on the opposite side of the line from you. I grew up with comics. I don't understand the people that talk about how they like a character and then say they wish the character would turn into something else. As far as manga goes, there's a number of series I've read for a while and dropped because it gradually turned intoa different series than the one I had originally been interested in.
    I hate characters being frozen in amber forever. I prefer heroes who grow facing new, greater challenges over time. If the essence of what makes a character unique (their core values, for example) remains I'm fine with them evolving because such change mirrors both Human life and the wider natural world. IMO, nothing is worse than a stagnant narrative, but to each their own. I do think with the dawn of more complex plots in other media the day of the continuous loop American comic book character is (thankfully) nearing its well-deserved end. The audiences of today expect more, and so they should.
    Last edited by Celgress; 09-24-2020 at 10:18 AM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  2. #77
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I hate characters being frozen in amber forever. I prefer heroes who grow facing new, greater challenges over time. If the essence of what makes a character unique (their core values, for example) remains I'm fine with them evolving because such change mirrors both Human life and the wider natural world. IMO, nothing is worse than a stagnant narrative, but to each their own. I do think with the dawn of more complex plots in other media the day of the continuous loop American comic book character is (thankfully) nearing its well-deserved end. The audiences of today expect more, and so they should.
    This is what I meant like look at the development Eren from Attack on Titan gets fro the beginning of the manga and til now. Or Naruto from the beginning of his series til now I see how their experiences change them and the lessons that they learn from it. But I don’t know if I can say the same for Peter I wanna say he gets development but the next writer can totally take that away or flat out ignore it.
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    this right here I come from reading manga to reading comics in 2016 so I find it weird how Peter is doing the same stuff he has been doing since the 80s and fans are okay with it. Like how the whole Parker Industries stuff happen so many fans were against it like they rather have him continue struggling for money in his everday life.
    Some of us don't hate change, we just don't agreed with the change in particular or how it was implemented, plus everyone has their ideal version of what Spider-Man should be.

    In case of Superior, i don't like that story, i found it contrived and very insulting toward Spider-Man and as someone that loves redemptions stories, this one in particukar never sat well with me.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  4. #79
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Some of us don't hate change, we just don't agreed with the change in particular or how it was implemented, plus everyone has their ideal version of what Spider-Man should be.

    In case of Superior, i don't like that story, i found it contrived and very insulting toward Spider-Man and as someone that loves redemptions stories, this one in particukar never sat well with me.
    I'd prefer if Otto had remained Superior Octopus a villain/sometimes anti-hero rather than reverting to his old boring pure villain self. I'll always feel Superior Octopus was the perfect middle point between the two extremes and thus the best way to evolve the character while staying true to his roots, but alas 'tis was to be.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I'd prefer if Otto had remained Superior Octopus a villain/sometimes anti-hero rather than reverting to his old boring pure villain self. I'll always feel Superior Octopus was the perfect middle point between the two extremes and thus the best way to evolve the character while staying true to his roots, but alas 'tis was to be.
    I never read Superior Otto, except for a scene in the last issue that rub me the wrong way. But, i never bothered to read it, so i can't really be fair with that book.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
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  6. #81
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I never read Superior Otto, except for a scene in the last issue that rub me the wrong way. But, i never bothered to read it, so i can't really be fair with that book.
    We're on different ends of the fan spectrum, and I can respect that. Superior Spider-Man is what brought me back to reading Spidey comics. I was so disgusted by the effects of resetting Peter's & co's character development Post-OMD I swore off all things Spider-Man for literally years. I honestly thought I was done with Peter Parker's (formerly) amazing world. Then I heard about Superior. I came back because it was so different and refreshing. I felt engaged for the first time in years with a comic book series (something I've only recently felt again with Immortal Hulk, current X-Men, and before that, new Venom). I had no idea how Peter might return and, just as importantly, where Otto's story would go. So, that's why I have a soft spot for Superior Spider-Man/Superior Octopus.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #82
    iMan 42s
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    I have a lot of negative things to say how Superior Spider-man ended. Like Deus Ex machina via Satan to defeat a guy Otto should've literally had no problem with is a fucking load and nobody has ever been able to prove to me otherwise.

    Like spitting in the face of the character arc is one thing but basically to only be used later on in an unrelated book? Was it really worth it? Like you guys got "regular" Otto back (technically since he's not actually Otto) and he's not even used over in Spider-man. Like all the Spider-man relaunches and spin-offs and we can't have Superior Octopus on the shelf? Sure. The office has done dumber things but still. Like I'm actually kind of baffled we've got the modern version of Facade going on with Kindred but Otto's book for some reason was the thing that had to go.
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  8. #83
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    The Otto situation is why I hope the Spider-Office doesn't try to regress Venom into a villain again. This stuff will just never work. What exactly is Otto Octavius gonna offer as villain now that he went through such a big arc of redemption?

  9. #84
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    The Otto situation is why I hope the Spider-Office doesn't try to regress Venom into a villain again. This stuff will just never work. What exactly is Otto Octavius gonna offer as villain now that he went through such a big arc of redemption?
    If I'm being brutally honest, nothing but nostalgia giggles for those stuck in the past. There is no villain Otto story worth telling that hasn't already been told to perfection over the past six decades. Also being brutally honest, before Superior-Spiderman (and its build-up) Otto was largely irrelevant as a character in the 616 comic books. He hadn't been relevant for at least twenty years heck probably thirty.
    Last edited by Celgress; 09-25-2020 at 08:09 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  10. #85
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    If I'm being brutally honest, nothing but nostalgia giggles for those stuck in the past. There is no villain Otto story worth telling that hasn't already been told to perfection over the past six decades. Also being brutally honest, before Superior-Spiderman (and its build-up) Otto was largely irrelevant as a character in the 616 comic books. He hadn't been relevant for at least twenty years heck probably thirty.
    Funny enough, when he was first killed near the beginning of the 90s Clone Saga, his final arc set him on a redemptive path, having him save Spider-Man's life from a fatal poison and even admit to having developed a deep, abiding respect and admiration for the web-slinger despite their years of enmity toward each other. Then Kaine killed him, and when he came back a few real-life years later, it was without those recent memories, so the whole Superior Spider-Man/Octopus thing wasn't even the first time Marvel backtracked on his character development. As for his recent appearance in Christopher Cantwell's Doctor Doom, considering how well Cantwell has done fleshing out Doom as a character, there may be hope he can do the same with Otto.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #86
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    This might be one of the things that influenced Gerry Conway's "Cancel all Comics" rant.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    This might be one of the things that influenced Gerry Conway's "Cancel all Comics" rant.
    Per Conway's screed, he'd actually be pro-this-move, i.e. no-continuity, no-maturity, and keeping everything the way it was in the '70s.

  13. #88
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Funny enough, when he was first killed near the beginning of the 90s Clone Saga, his final arc set him on a redemptive path, having him save Spider-Man's life from a fatal poison and even admit to having developed a deep, abiding respect and admiration for the web-slinger despite their years of enmity toward each other. Then Kaine killed him, and when he came back a few real-life years later, it was without those recent memories, so the whole Superior Spider-Man/Octopus thing wasn't even the first time Marvel backtracked on his character development. As for his recent appearance in Christopher Cantwell's Doctor Doom, considering how well Cantwell has done fleshing out Doom as a character, there may be hope he can do the same with Otto.
    Yup and I would argue that was the last time Ock was interesting or relevant until the events of Superior Spider-Man. And that 1990s Clone Saga story was the first time Ock was interesting or relevant since the early 1980s or perhaps the late 1970s. I see no point keeping a character who has clearly become extremely stale and boring from growing, but hey, what do I know? Far be it from me to dictate to the geniuses who are running the America Comic Book Industry straight into the ground because they want to recreate their childhoods....
    Last edited by Celgress; 09-26-2020 at 09:14 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I randomly scored a rare Funko Pop Superior Octopus today for under $15.00. I could not believe my luck. I've been looking for this little guy for months now. For some context, Funko Pop Superior Octopus is trending around $50.00 on Eaby/Amazon -

    Attachment 100573
    Didn't know Superior Octopus had a Funko POP. Nice!

    I do have the Superior Spider-Man which was a limited edition exclusive and a pain in the ass to get:



    It's one of my favourite Funko Pops in my collection.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    Didn't know Superior Octopus had a Funko POP. Nice!

    I do have the Superior Spider-Man which was a limited edition exclusive and a pain in the ass to get:



    It's one of my favourite Funko Pops in my collection.
    Woah, going for big money on Ebay, I've seen 49 and 62!

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