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  1. #16
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    me in a few months when spencer breaks type and writes otto the way he read him growing up in the 80's

    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  2. #17
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    A little, but as a fan of the SSM character (along with the general concept behind Otto's original Superior run) it still hurts plenty.
    Agreed. Otto was the most interesting he had been in years, with real character growth. I understand the tragic ending and allowing the character to retain at least some of the experiences he had as Superior as opposed to someone else who could have just swept it all way, but I was really hoping Otto would avoid the whole putting the toys back in the box/reset to status quo that inevitably happens when a character goes through as much change as he had.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Again though, you could literally have both. Even if you were never going to use him again its still another toy in the box. Instead you break it and bring back one we've seen a thousand times before instead of keeping both.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Again though, you could literally have both. Even if you were never going to use him again its still another toy in the box. Instead you break it and bring back one we've seen a thousand times before instead of keeping both.
    True, the situation is lose/lose, IMO. It sucks, but it is what it is.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I thought it was complete ass and a slap in the face to his development.

    This Otto is not Otto Octavious he's an A.I duplicate and so once finding himself able to stand on his own, he reverts to being a man he never actually was. The A.I started as Spider-man even if he literally didn't start as Spider-man. His goal was to continue being Spider-man and seemed to enjoy it. Now he's a man everybody kept saying he was, a man Otto literally isn't because he's dead, and gave into peer pressure from Mephisto of all people because he couldn't take Norman Osborn. I would also like to reiterate that Otto as Spider-man is significantly better equipped but no the fat old man with outdated equipment is apparently what you need to take on "the most dangerous villain" Otto has ever faced despite fighting Terrax in the first arc. And sure even if he's retained some aspects of this, it's still turning him into something he's not and unintentionally saying that peer pressure makes you who you are, no I didn't like the ending.

    Even if this was planned this also is shooting a franchise spin-off in the foot because despite having another Doctor Octopus and the means to simply make another Otto, no we ended up doing the stupid thing and removing a spin-off because Peter Parker needed six more books to dominate shelf-space. And for what? Otto has yet to show up anywhere and even if he has nobody seems to have noticed. The most relevant he's been in a decade and it was ditched for..., nostalgia? What's the point of resetting the board if it isn't the same Otto and you can have both? The people who hated Superior Spider-man aren't even reading the book.
    Well it was sure a kick to the gut for you the reader.

  6. #21
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    I dislike it because other Marvel villains like Magneto and Dr. Doom have been portrayed as "heroic" if not exactly heroes at multiples times over the years, to the point where you can say the characters have a certain nobility to them, even as villains. But Otto, like Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo, and others before him, is doomed to the reset to villain mode, all his good deeds and growth erased.

  7. #22
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    I dislike it because other Marvel villains like Magneto and Dr. Doom have been portrayed as "heroic" if not exactly heroes at multiples times over the years, to the point where you can say the characters have a certain nobility to them, even as villains. But Otto, like Sabretooth, Helmut Zemo, and others before him, is doomed to the reset to villain mode, all his good deeds and growth erased.
    At least Zemo had a good excuse; he was pissed at the hypocrisy of the Avengers and Captain America for embracing Bucky Barnes after all the crimes he'd committed as the Winter Soldier while his own efforts at redemption were constantly treated with skepticism and distrust. Sabretooth, technically, had to be morally inverted by a miscast spell to redeem himself at all, and Otto had to inherit a lifetime of memories from his archenemy to be spurred toward doing good with his abilities. I'm slightly more pissed about Sandman, who was pretty much brainwashed into being a bad guy again and nobody in-universe seemed to notice or care, just taking it at face value that he'd reverted to crime, even with the more sympathetic treatment he was given later.

    Also, let's not forget that even Scorpion was about to turn his life around at one point before being jumped and beaten to a pulp by Spider-Man, who had lost faith in the capacity of his enemies for goodness and redemption after finding out that a particularly horrific recent trauma had been engineered by Harry Osborn as a posthumous "f*** you," so thanks to that, Scorpion pretty much stayed on the villainous path and got even worse, especially after becoming Venom. However, I'll admit I'm rather disappointed that Gage utterly reset Otto to factory default, since his retained knowledge of Spider-Man's life and memories, if not necessarily his abilities, could have made him even more dangerous and more compelling as a villain, with him struggling between his more heroic impulses (inherited from Peter) and his more villainous instincts (ingrained from his own life experiences).
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #23
    All-New Member Celtic1967's Avatar
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    Just found out about what happened to Otto. Wicked pissed that Marvel decided for the thousandth time to ignore character growth and return to the status quo. I was hoping, since Venom evolved into successful anti-hero spin-off of Spidey, that Marvel would try and do the same here. Guess I was wrong.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic1967 View Post
    Just found out about what happened to Otto. Wicked pissed that Marvel decided for the thousandth time to ignore character growth and return to the status quo. I was hoping, since Venom evolved into successful anti-hero spin-off of Spidey, that Marvel would try and do the same here. Guess I was wrong.
    I could buy it if they were using Kaine more, the whole redundancy "We only need one anti-hero Spiderman" thing but he's in limbo as well. Hell theres multiple ways of getting okc or a Ock stand in.

  10. #25
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    The actual ending to Superior Spider-Man is fine by me. It was always going to happen that Marvel would revert Otto to traditional Doctor Octopus persona but the way it's been done he still clearly has heroic tendencies even if his pride gets in the way of saying it.

    It's really up to the next writer and how they handle Otto to show whether most of the development he's had as Superior Spider-Man is swept under the carpet or whether they use it present some more interesting stories with him and more nuanced characterisation. Before his death in the 90s at the hands of Kaine some interesting things were being done with the character. He has the potential to be as compelling a villain as Doom and Magneto but it's all up to whoever handles him next.

  11. #26
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    The actual ending to Superior Spider-Man is fine by me. It was always going to happen that Marvel would revert Otto to traditional Doctor Octopus persona but the way it's been done he still clearly has heroic tendencies even if his pride gets in the way of saying it.

    It's really up to the next writer and how they handle Otto to show whether most of the development he's had as Superior Spider-Man is swept under the carpet or whether they use it present some more interesting stories with him and more nuanced characterisation. Before his death in the 90s at the hands of Kaine some interesting things were being done with the character. He has the potential to be as compelling a villain as Doom and Magneto but it's all up to whoever handles him next.
    Do you mean when he saved Peter's life (from a poison Peter had been exposed to) and admitted to having developed a deep respect, if not fondness, for him despite all the years they'd spent at each other's throats?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    The actual ending to Superior Spider-Man is fine by me. It was always going to happen that Marvel would revert Otto to traditional Doctor Octopus persona but the way it's been done he still clearly has heroic tendencies even if his pride gets in the way of saying it.

    It's really up to the next writer and how they handle Otto to show whether most of the development he's had as Superior Spider-Man is swept under the carpet or whether they use it present some more interesting stories with him and more nuanced characterisation. Before his death in the 90s at the hands of Kaine some interesting things were being done with the character. He has the potential to be as compelling a villain as Doom and Magneto but it's all up to whoever handles him next.
    Except Marvel didnt. They didnt care. The writer did though and thats what sticks in alot of peoples craw

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I could buy it if they were using Kaine more, the whole redundancy "We only need one anti-hero Spiderman" thing but he's in limbo as well. Hell theres multiple ways of getting okc or a Ock stand in.
    Kaine's current MIA status following his excellent run as the Second Scarlet Spider (I liked him better than the first, in all honesty) is another sore point for me, grrr.
    Last edited by Celgress; 03-29-2020 at 08:20 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Do you mean when he saved Peter's life (from a poison Peter had been exposed to) and admitted to having developed a deep respect, if not fondness, for him despite all the years they'd spent at each other's throats?
    Yes. Love Web of Death. Great character stuff from JM DeMetteis.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Except Marvel didnt. They didnt care. The writer did though and thats what sticks in alot of peoples craw
    If Gage had simply left Otto as Superior Spider-Man and ended his run with him still in that persona I'm certain Marvel would have reverted him back to normal at some point. Doctor Octopus is way too much of an important character to the mythos to leave him as a satellite Spider-Man spin off character.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    Yes. Love Web of Death. Great character stuff from JM DeMetteis.



    If Gage had simply left Otto as Superior Spider-Man and ended his run with him still in that persona I'm certain Marvel would have reverted him back to normal at some point. Doctor Octopus is way too much of an important character to the mythos to leave him as a satellite Spider-Man spin off character.
    Again, many many many ways of dealing with it thats lets you have two toys.

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