Superior Spider-Man/ Octopus

[Dadakhan]

Again, many many many ways of dealing with it thats lets you have two toys.

I think it would be very compelling to have Elliot Tolliver (Superior Spiderman/Octopus) face off against Otto Octavius (as Doc Ock).

Perhaps Elliot Tolliver could come over from another Spiderverse since Otto has a strand of the Web of Life?

[SpideyClone]

Kaine's current MIA status following his excellent run as the Second Scarlet Spider (I liked him better than the first, in all honesty) is another sore point for me, grrr.

Agreed. Another kick in the nuts from Marvel.

[Man-Thing]

Just went and caught up, expecting to have half a year's issues to get through. Imagine my surprise and disappointment when the run ended two issues after I'd last caught up, and with a memory wipe / status quo reset. Still processing that...

[Nightcrawler92]

In all honesty, this was the event that sent me away from the big 2 (minus 3 books). I'm tired of the same go around. If they had done this in 10 or 20 years that'd be one thing but there was soooo much that could have been mined from this idea... I'm done with mainstream heroes. Indies here I come.

[Lee]

I think it was a mistake to go back to the Superior Spider-Man identity. That story was over, and the Superior Octopus was fresh and slick and full of potential. I wish more had been done with this more formidable version of Doctor Octopus.

I think it was also a mistake to take a storyline that was rooted in science fiction through all its twists and turns (mind swapping, robots, cloning, time travel) and resolve it with magic.

[Mr. White]

Agreed. Another kick in the nuts from Marvel.

This sums up my position on Kaine very nicely!

Also liked Tolliver and think he should have continued as Superior Octopus. Wouldn't even have minded him going back to using the moniker Dr. Octopus. Changing to Superior SM was a step back and the beginning of the end.

While I understand the "importance" of Otto Octavius, throwing out all the character development beginning from Ends of the Earth was just a wrong move.

That said, what else is expected from Marvel?

[Lee]

I'm fine with everything coming around full circle. That's to be expected. But when they set up an idea like Superior Octopus, they should make the most of it before they backtrack.

I also feel like they wasted a bullet. THE RETURN OF DOCTOR OCTOPUS could have been a major story arc in Amazing Spider-Man. A lot of people only read the core Amazing Spider-Man title, so when Ock does return to Amazing Spider-Man they're going to be told that something very important happened happened to a very important character, but it happened in a different comic and they missed it and Peter missed it and buying 2-3 issues of Amazing Spider-Man each month isn't enough to get the full story.

[Mr. White]

I'm fine with everything coming around full circle. That's to be expected. But when they set up an idea like Superior Octopus, they should make the most of it before they backtrack.

I also feel like they wasted a bullet. THE RETURN OF DOCTOR OCTOPUS could have been a major story arc in Amazing Spider-Man. A lot of people only read the core Amazing Spider-Man title, so when Ock does return to Amazing Spider-Man they're going to be told that something very important happened happened to a very important character, but it happened in a different comic and they missed it and Peter missed it and buying 2-3 issues of Amazing Spider-Man each month isn't enough to get the full story.

Think this is a fundamental problem with Comics; arguably with Marvel more.
Let's look at Spider-Man today and Spider-Man 30 years ago. They are almost in the same place (if not in the same place).
Sure a lot has happened in-between but ultimately there is no character progression. One may even say there is no character development.

Three fundamental things that I reckon should have stuck with Spider-Man and become the status quo:
1. Aunt May should have died in Civil War;
2. Pete and MJ should have stayed married (OMD should never have happened) and MJ should have been the anchor for him not to kill Kingpin in Back in Black; and
3. Horizon Labs.

Sure, there are some decisions that would still need fixing (e.g. his unmasking in Civil War) but that can be sorted out in a number of ways...including the crap they actually pulled (preferably not).

[jetengine]

Think this is a fundamental problem with Comics; arguably with Marvel more.
Let's look at Spider-Man today and Spider-Man 30 years ago. They are almost in the same place (if not in the same place).
Sure a lot has happened in-between but ultimately there is no character progression. One may even say there is no character development.

Three fundamental things that I reckon should have stuck with Spider-Man and become the status quo:
1. Aunt May should have died in Civil War;
2. Pete and MJ should have stayed married (OMD should never have happened) and MJ should have been the anchor for him not to kill Kingpin in Back in Black; and
3. Horizon Labs.

Sure, there are some decisions that would still need fixing (e.g. his unmasking in Civil War) but that can be sorted out in a number of ways...including the crap they actually pulled (preferably not).

May should of stayed dead in the 90s tbf

[xpyred]

This Otto is not Otto Octavious he's an A.I duplicate

Remember the last time Otto was resurrected? They did the exact same thing with a digital back up he had of his mind that reverted him to before he cured Peter's of Vulture's virus during Clone Saga II. Otto came back angry and forget he knew Spider-Man's identity and blaming him for god knows what back then.

[SpideyClone]

Honestly, considering what happened, it would have been best to just kill Otto altogether, and let Tolliver become the legacy character, similar to what they did with Kraven and his clone/son replacement. I would have erased most of Otto's memories from from Tolliver except from the second SSM series forward similar to how Mepshisto removed Peter Parker memories from Otto. He would remember he was a super-villain once, and strive to do better. Otto's arrogance and overachiever attitude would still drive the character forward and create conflict with other heroes.
Not sure if I would keep the spider-powers. He said once it was about the man not the powers, I would put that to the test. And of course, keep the Superior Octopus costume

[SuperiorIronman]

Remember the last time Otto was resurrected? They did the exact same thing with a digital back up he had of his mind that reverted him to before he cured Peter's of Vulture's virus during Clone Saga II. Otto came back angry and forget he knew Spider-Man's identity and blaming him for god knows what back then.

Just because it happened before doesn't mean they should do it again.

[Celgress]

May should of stayed dead in the 90s tbf

Speaking of Aunt May, at the very least she should still know Peter is Spider-Man. The Conversation was another great story that was thrown under the bus by OMD (a far inferior and nonsensical story). If May ever learns Peter is Spider-Man in the future (or dies) I doubt anyone will care because we'll know it will ultimately be retconned again, the same goes for Peter if he ever marries, or gets engaged, or lands that dream job moving forward. Why bother becoming emotionally invested in any Spidey character development when everyone knows for sure it won't stick, and there will be no lingering after-effects on the main character or his world?

[SpideyClone]

Speaking of Aunt May, at the very least she should still know Peter is Spider-Man. The Conversation was another great story that was thrown under the bus by OMD (a far inferior and nonsensical story). If May ever learns Peter is Spider-Man in the future (or dies) I doubt anyone will care because we'll know it will ultimately be retconned again, the same goes for Peter if he ever marries, or gets engaged, or lands that dream job moving forward. Why bother becoming emotionally invested in any Spidey character development when everyone knows for sure it won't stick, and there will be no lingering after-effects on the main character or his world?

By the same token, how long will it be before J. Jonah Jameson is OMD'd into forgetting Spidey's identity? And I have to think Otto will find out again before long, he was too intimately involved with Parker Industries and other facets of Peter's life not for there to be some recollection or some trace of something that will jog his memory down the road.

[Celgress]

By the same token, how long will it be before J. Jonah Jameson is OMD'd into forgetting Spidey's identity? And I have to think Otto will find out again before long, he was too intimately involved with Parker Industries and other facets of Peter's life not for there to be some recollection or some trace of something that will jog his memory down the road.

This is my big fear with 616 Spidey right now. Not only that JJJ will be OMD'd but also so will Peter (if not the entire reality/timeline) and thus no linger effects caused by him knowing. It'll be as if yet another change never happened, infuriating.

Edit - I can't see this type of retcon being tolerated in any medium other than comic books. Can you imagine Darth Vader suddenly being reverted to Anakin Skywalker again and the entire world knowing no better? Or Piccolo and/or Vegeta becoming villains again because an artist grew up with them as villains and wants them to be the way that person remembered? Character development and plot progress be damned!