Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 89
  1. #61
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    4,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Why?




    Business wise the Avengers rule. The X-men haven't got billion dollar blockbusters. Characters get badly written, characters sometimes get turned into villains and sometimes they're mistreated. This is comics, happens to everyone. Look what they did to Iron Man. Just because you dislike what they did to the X-men didn't make them a "prop." They're characters in a story.



    Sounds more like you have a problem with Hickman's portrayal than Marvel.
    sounds like a lot of twisting my words here, I dont have to care because the x-men are their own universe already that rarely interact and have no need to, because there are hundreds of possible cast combination and premisses and new possibilities, there's a reason why we have our own forum and even twitter hastag.
    Also comparing the avengers title that is not really selling that well and its franchise that has been reduced to two teams isnt wise, we arent talking cartoons or videogames but comics here, and there is a clear winnner betwen 2 teams vs 7 teams.

    I love what hickman and the x-crew are doing, but I don't want every other propriety under the sun taking its hand into the jar witout premission or respect, so put krakoa into its own universe since its clearly strong and expansive enough to do so, and makes shure shitty crossovers like these cannot happen.
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-23-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    4,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    sounds like a lot of twisting my words here, I dont have to care because the x-men are their own universe already that rarely interact and have no need to, because there are hundreds of possible cast combination and premisses and new possibilities, there's a reason why we have our own forum and even twitter hastag.
    Also comparing the avengers title that is not really selling that well and its franchise that has been reduced to two teams isnt wise, we arent talking cartoons or videogames but comics here, and there is a clear winnner betwen 2 teams vs 7 teams.

    I love what hickman and the x-crew are doing, but I don't want every other propriety under the sun taking its hand into the jar witout premission or respect, so put krakoa into its own universe since its clearly strong and expansive enough to do so, and makes shure shitty crossovers like these cannot happen.
    If anyone could make your dream come true, it’s franklin. Issue 3 could have the FF and X-Men in a full blown fight. Valeria and Kitty die at the end. Issue 4 has franklin’s powers return full force due to the emotional trauma. He ends up splitting reality in 2 with his “mutant” family ending up in one reality and his biological family ending up in the other.
    “The Avengers have been the one point of stability in my entire life. And if The Avengers call… then The Scarlet Witch will always answer.”

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    sounds like a lot of twisting my words here, I dont have to care because the x-men are their own universe already that rarely interact and have no need to, because there are hundreds of possible cast combination and premisses and new possibilities, there's a reason why we have our own forum and even twitter hastag.
    Also comparing the avengers title that is not really selling that well and its franchise that has been reduced to two teams isnt wise, we arent talking cartoons or videogames but comics here, and there is a clear winnner betwen 2 teams vs 7 teams.
    The question wasn't why you don't have to care it's why you don't. Except they're not their own universe, it's why people are angry at the latest crossover with the FF. Having a forum on CBR or hashtag means nothing in the grand scope of things.

    The X-men were very popular for years, now it's the Avengers turn. The MCU dominates the X-men films and cartoons.

    I love what hickman and the x-crew are doing, but I don't want every other propriety under the sun taking its hand into the jar witout premission or respect, so put krakoa into its own universe since its clearly strong and expansive enough to do so, and makes shure shitty crossovers like these cannot happen.
    The FF mini is taking Hickman's lead with the X-line characterisation. The X-men belong to Marvel, like all the titles - permission and respect don't come into it. "Respect" means different things to different people, and it's not good to take it personally when your favourites get written like you don't want. That's comics. Consistency is important, as well, which the crossover has kept.

  4. #64
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    4,026

    Default

    The x-men comics as of now are undoubtly more popular, COMICS, the medium that has praticaly no benefit from the mcu no matter how much synergy was forced, COMICS i am talking comics, QUADRADINHOS, COMIC BOOKS

    First of all, Sales, word of mouth and online engament clearly show that current X-MEN COMICS are more popular, there is no denying that, simple.

    Second of all if you were actually reading what I type is that my issue is that these crossovers are always one sided when the clearly bigger COMIC line (im typing comics in big letters so you understand that im talking COMICS) is being leeched witout any benefit to itself, its story or even its fanbase.
    It shows how the fantastic four fans are loving this series when pretty much every x-fan has grown to hate it.
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-24-2020 at 01:01 AM.

  5. #65
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    4,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    If anyone could make your dream come true, it’s franklin. Issue 3 could have the FF and X-Men in a full blown fight. Valeria and Kitty die at the end. Issue 4 has franklin’s powers return full force due to the emotional trauma. He ends up splitting reality in 2 with his “mutant” family ending up in one reality and his biological family ending up in the other.
    yes please, im at my limit wih crossovers ruining my x-men comics
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-24-2020 at 01:11 AM.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    743

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    yes please, im at my limit wih crossovers ruining my x-men comics
    I agree. The X-men should go their own way. The avengers/FF are not as interesting.
    I only continue to read X-books because I don't spend any money on it.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    The x-men comics as of now are undoubtly more popular, COMICS, the medium that has praticaly no benefit from the mcu no matter how much synergy was forced, COMICS i am talking comics, QUADRADINHOS, COMIC BOOKS

    First of all, Sales, word of mouth and online engament clearly show that current X-MEN COMICS are more popular, there is no denying that, simple.
    Ok.

    Second of all if you were actually reading what I type is that my issue is that these crossovers are always one sided when the clearly bigger COMIC line (im typing comics in big letters so you understand that im talking COMICS) is being leeched witout any benefit to itself, its story or even its fanbase.
    Crossovers varying in quality. Consistency with characterisation is a huge issue, but not with this. It's bizarre how you want other characters to bend to the X-men when they're acting like villains now and when they fight back it's unacceptable. This is a minor tiff, not an "Avengers vs X-men" battle royale. Things are going to get real dicey when we get another X-men/Avengers rumble, which is a matter of when not if. It's disconcerting that anyone who isn't in awe of the X-men at this junction are seen as "leeching." It's all part of comics.

    It shows how the fantastic four fans are loving this series when pretty much every x-fan has grown to hate it.
    I'm a big fan of both the Fantastic Four and X-men.

  8. #68
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    4,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Ok.



    Crossovers varying in quality. Consistency with characterisation is a huge issue, but not with this. It's bizarre how you want other characters to bend to the X-men when they're acting like villains now and when they fight back it's unacceptable. This is a minor tiff, not an "Avengers vs X-men" battle royale. Things are going to get real dicey when we get another X-men/Avengers rumble, which is a matter of when not if. It's disconcerting that anyone who isn't in awe of the X-men at this junction are seen as "leeching." It's all part of comics.



    I'm a big fan of both the Fantastic Four and X-men.
    it shows, there's a difrence betwen conflict and a very clear set of choices to make the mutant side the clear oposite to garner any blame while every other hero is witout any consequences, its a set up to constantly downplay the x-men to create the ilusion they are equal.

    It is leeching, it is parasitism because its not an equal enchange, mutants dont get anything from these shitty crossovers, only the non mutants titles get their feats and moral highground and characther focus, the x-men are there to provide their universe and marketability, never to also tell a story about them, this isnt a story about the x-men.

    this is an f4 story caused by mutants, not a mutant and f4 story, you could take any of these characthers besides kitty away and the difrence would minimal because this isnt a balanced crossover, the mutants are the antagonists to the promoted "team up" but are secondary to the fantastic four.
    you don't see an issue, but this isnt he first, the second or even the third time it happens, its a constant whenever the x-men crossover and it pisses me off because it never, EVER gives mutants anything in return, never not even once.
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-24-2020 at 03:08 AM.

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    11,391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Why does there need to be a major conflict in the first place? Charles and Erik didn't need to go with the Marauders and Logan when they went to Yancy Street, they only went there as a show of power and force. This should have been a group of carefully selected X-Men - Kitty for reasons stated in the mini, Logan and Ororo because they were members of the Fantastic Four, Banshee and Emma because they were at one point Franklin's legal guardians - to discuss him coming to Krakoa and being helped with his mutation. No threat to just take him, no unnecessary yelling from the Fantastic Four as a result of the way the X-Men conducted themselves, no reason for the Fantastic Four to invade Krakoa. And go from there to having Reed, Hank, and the bright minds of Krakoa trying to figure out what is going on with Franklin's mutation, to them asking Victor for help and being largely double-crossed.
    Well, ****.
    Shut'er down. We have a winner.

    I'll also echo the H_E_D's sentiment regarding Dodson's selection as penciler. No disrespect. Just not my preference.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    it shows, there's a difrence betwen conflict and a very clear set of choices to make the mutant side the clear oposite to garner any blame while every other hero is witout any consequences, its a set up to constantly downplay the x-men to create the ilusion they are equal.

    It is leeching, it is parasitism because its not an equal enchange, mutants dont get anything from these shitty crossovers, only the non mutants titles get their feats and moral highground and characther focus, the x-men are there to provide their universe and marketability, never to also tell a story about them, this isnt a story about the x-men.

    this is an f4 story caused by mutants, not a mutant and f4 story, you could take any of these characthers besides kitty away and the difrence would minimal because this isnt a balanced crossover, the mutants are the antagonists to the promoted "team up" but are secondary to the fantastic four.
    you don't see an issue, but this isnt he first, the second or even the third time it happens, its a constant whenever the x-men crossover and it pisses me off because it never, EVER gives mutants anything in return, never not even once.
    Conflict is an integral part of super-hero comics, including among super-heroes. Except many of the X-men fans are defending what they're doing so the writing must be doing something right to please them. Chip Zdarsky's working with the current X-men status quo, he can't just rewrite the entire X-line to make them the good guys because right now they aren't in their own books. Zdarsky didn't create the X-men who appear in the crossover from thin air, he used Hickman's acclaimed template and naturally the Fantastic Four acting accordingly to their old friends attitudes.

    You think every crossover with a less popular super-hero team or solo hero is "leeching"? Is Punisher doing this in crossovers with Spider-man? Not everyone is going to pleased with a cross over but to make it seen like nobody likes how the X-men are acting isn't true. It's a story about both groups.

    They needed a hook to bring in the Fantastic Four in and Franklin is so obvious it's surprising this hasn't been done before. Considering the current status quo why would you assume the FF would be ok with what they're doing? That's just a natural reaction when super-heroes go off the deep end, as they occasionally do. There was a crossover event where Daredevil was the main villain, he lead the Hand. Iron Man's been turned into a super-villain twice in Avenger storylines, "The Crossing," "Civil War." Reed was in "Civil War," too. However, unlike those examples (and Daredevil has the excuse of being possessed) were written badly, the X-men are written correctly to adhere to Hickman's critically acclaimed vision.

    In A vs X Cable comes from a future where the Avengers are responsible for the death of Hope Summers which caused his horrible future. Cabe defeats Falcon, Captain America, Iron man and Hulk in rapid succession - they only defeat him by acting as a team! Hope defeats both Spider-man and Wolverine (who was an Avenger). The X-men have to protect Hope, a young mutant who might be their best hope of reigniting their species again with the Phoenix, which is a very strong argument that they're on the good side. When Wolverine suggests Hope needs to be killed the Avengers kick him out. The Phoenix Five go to Wakanda to stop Namor from destroying it, taking his remnant of the Phoenix Force. The X-men and Avengers team up together to stop the Phoenix Five. Hope gets the complete Phoenix and restores the mutant population. Captain America puts together a team of both Avengers and X-men to help make the two groups like each other again. This is hardly nothing and this is from a controversial crossover.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member Sunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Forget Scott's ridiculous posturing in HoX 01.
    Xavier and Reed discuss Franklin's situation over long distance coms...tempers flare.
    Have Val and Franklin discover Reed's genetic tampering accidentally (they could be just out and about in Central Park and for a lark try to use the Gateway resulting in "the Kitty skrunch" ).
    Franklin with bloody nose confronts Reed...who tries to justify his actions.
    Franklin angsty angry teenager that he is runs away and Val secretly follows (to watch over him).
    They stow away on a boat supposedly heading in the direction of Krakoa.
    The Boat is carrying kidnapped/incarcerated mutant children...they meet up the Marauder...there's a fight.
    Reed Sue are still unaware that the kids are missing.
    On the high seas...the Marauders encounter Doom....

    Still lots of room for "drama".
    So when does this come out ?

  12. #72
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,950

    Default

    I have to agree with Ferro:
    x-over with Avengers went from "should we defend Magneto?" and "let's rescue this Avenger's mutant kid" to "the muties were wrong about Phoenix"; x-over with F4 went from "should we trust a X-Man's life with Doom" to "the X-Men are kid snatchers".

    As I mentioned the Mark Waid Avengers/Champions cross-over had them scuffle for a few moments but in the end it was a team-up against High Evolutionary. They need to stop focusing on these "versus" type cross-overs and just do team-ups against a common threat.
    "Cable was right!"

  13. #73
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    17,184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I have to agree with Ferro:
    x-over with Avengers went from "should we defend Magneto?" and "let's rescue this Avenger's mutant kid" to "the muties were wrong about Phoenix"; x-over with F4 went from "should we trust a X-Man's life with Doom" to "the X-Men are kid snatchers".

    As I mentioned the Mark Waid Avengers/Champions cross-over had them scuffle for a few moments but in the end it was a team-up against High Evolutionary. They need to stop focusing on these "versus" type cross-overs and just do team-ups against a common threat.
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Okies...Here goes...

    [Issue...03]
    It's Doom...of course there's a HUGE fight.
    The Marauders, already battle weary from the recent battle with the kidnappers *see previous issue Deveditor* are on the ropes.
    Franklin and Val intercede on the X-Men's behalf...of course, Doom doesn't listen. Franklin then tries to use his powers but shyt goes from bad to worse.
    Val, HBIT that she is...lays into Viktor. He concedes but insists the Richards' children accompany him back to Latveria. *you know, he's still plotting*
    The Marauder contacts Reed and Sue to let them know what has happened and where their children are heading.
    The F4 are granted access to Krakoa. They see for themselves what it's truly meant to be...yes, there's still some skepticism *Magneto is being Magneto* but that's not what's important at the moment.
    The QC convenes and a decision is made to go after Doom.

    [Issue...04]
    As Val explains Franklin's sitch, Doom is up to some magical/tech shyt with Franklin whose situation is quickly deteriorating and wreaking all kinds of havoc.
    Enter: The F4 and X-Men
    Doombots!
    Fistcuffs ensue.
    Doom realises he cannot help (use) Franklin even with Val assisting him (that admission alone is worse than any physical defeat). There's a stand off.
    Back on Krakoa:
    Reed also admits his inability to solve the problem...and his fear of losing his son. o--[A]--o promises to do all within his power to restore Franklin's powers. Sue is not hearing it and demands to stay by her son's side.
    Val steps in and steps up. *o--[A]--o is intrigued by her*. (that's SO Val)
    Epilogue...Kitty reunites with Franklin, comparing broken nose stories.

    [end]

    Simple. Straightforward. Focusing on characterisation and their history as heroes and, more importantly, as friends.
    Fantastical! WHO is your artist?
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
    Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!

  14. #74
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    it shows, there's a difrence betwen conflict and a very clear set of choices to make the mutant side the clear oposite to garner any blame while every other hero is witout any consequences, its a set up to constantly downplay the x-men to create the ilusion they are equal.

    It is leeching, it is parasitism because its not an equal enchange, mutants dont get anything from these shitty crossovers, only the non mutants titles get their feats and moral highground and characther focus, the x-men are there to provide their universe and marketability, never to also tell a story about them, this isnt a story about the x-men.

    this is an f4 story caused by mutants, not a mutant and f4 story, you could take any of these characthers besides kitty away and the difrence would minimal because this isnt a balanced crossover, the mutants are the antagonists to the promoted "team up" but are secondary to the fantastic four.
    you don't see an issue, but this isnt he first, the second or even the third time it happens, its a constant whenever the x-men crossover and it pisses me off because it never, EVER gives mutants anything in return, never not even once.

    Ummm.... it's really by design that the X-Men get the short end of the stick. That's their whole reason for being. The mutant race has ALWAYS been the target of persecution and derision in the Marvel Universe. Every win they get is tempered by greater loss. Taking offense to how they're used to 'prop up' other properties within the MU is nonsensical.

    Taking them out of the MU and creating and X-men Universe -- they'd still have to presented as the underdogs within their own titles. You're not going to get away from it.

  15. #75
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    4,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post
    Ummm.... it's really by design that the X-Men get the short end of the stick. That's their whole reason for being. The mutant race has ALWAYS been the target of persecution and derision in the Marvel Universe. Every win they get is tempered by greater loss. Taking offense to how they're used to 'prop up' other properties within the MU is nonsensical.

    Taking them out of the MU and creating and X-men Universe -- they'd still have to presented as the underdogs within their own titles. You're not going to get away from it.
    So you are basically saying the other superheroes are part of the problem? causing their underdog status? Cause please I want it comfirmed the rest of the superhero comunity are comfirmed mutant antagonists. I d love that.

    Why shouldn't I take ofense over my favorites being the town's bike when no other propriety is treated that way?
    I know damm well that when reading the books, im just tired of having these other "heroes" repeating the same thing disguised as friendship, in a new universe at least the stories would be to the benefit of the x-men only in terms of storytelling, not to give these heroes that I couldnt care less as an x-men reader their monthly 2 k sales boost
    Last edited by Ferro; 03-24-2020 at 09:29 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •